Dragons: What are they?

[Dragoniade]

Wow! Another deillusioned player.

- Dragon scales are among the best armor available

True, ONLY if you'Re a level 90 dragons. Otherwise, since all the scales are locked, you don't get any armor bonus for scale you cannot equip. What's the point of having some, but not THE best armor, if you can't equip it.

- Dragons deal out more melee damage than every other class with Gold Rage having it recycled and ready again within 15 secs

Gold rage take hoard. See any biped having to sacrifice experience or money to uses their abilities? Nope. And this really suck when you're playing a spellcaster dragon. Lower Gold Rage output and bellow average dammage. And it sure won't beat a biped dealing 3000 DMG in a single attack. Best I ever managed to do with Gold Rage was like 1200 damages when ALL strike hit. Far lesser than most melle based class.

- Dragons have their Silver Strike and Ravage abilities for further devastating melee damage

Still not worthwhile the cost when you're a spellbased dragon. And the damage for those attack are bellow par too.

- Dragons have a tail attack stunning their foes long enough to get in 2-3 of their other devastating melee attacks

Most class got either a root/stun spell, or a stuning abilities. Nothing new there that make dragon 'special'. And again, with a stun so short, you're lucky to be able to cast a spell before it run out.

- Dragons have a bite attack causing DoT to their foes

Mage have DoT spells and so do some other class. Nothing fancy here. And it's pierce damage, which get lowered by a lot of monsters.

- Dragons have a breath weapon with a 33% chance of causing DoT to their foes once completing their 50th level augmentation quest

Sorry. That's not an inate ability. You ahve to sacrifice a socket to be able to use that feature. And at level 100, a mere 40 dmg is barely any damage to most monster. Some WD crystal deal more damage and proc more often. And tell me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was much lower than 33%.

- Dragons have their fast recycling spiked scales ability similar to CoT

You call 3 minutes FAST? CoT last FIFTEEN minutes, not 1.5 minutes. You spend half your time waiting for the ability to recycle. The only advantage over CoT is that Spiked Scales return more damage than CoT.

- Dragons have refreshing breeze ablity to heal damage faster than most mobs or groups of mobs can inflict it

Refreshing breeze could have been a great things... if it wasn't on a 5 minutes timers. With that abilities, it's fight, sit wait, fight, sit and wait. Not that great. The problem with dragons is that ALL healing are on an awful long timer.

And don't say the other breezes are great. 40 healing every 10 seconds A Flame beetle deal DoT at about 50 every 10 second. Most mobs deal 200 damage for the same period.

- Dragons have their Gold Shield ability to trade damage for hoard and halving all damage inflicted to them

More hoard leak. Name me any other class that let you sacrifice their equipment for damage absorption. None.
Those hoard consumming abilities are just getting annoying. We're getting more and more of those, but without the hoard to fuel it. Such abilities are just EYE CANDIES. Look good, sound good, but in practice, they're awful.

- Dragons have an Instant Heal ability based on primal skill

So? Anyone taking 10 level of cleric too. Only difference is it's use primal. Big deal. ANd again, 5 minutes timer.
What,s the point of naming every single abilities that dragon got? Why don't you do the same with EVERY other class.

- Dragons have abilities and spells to enhance health, armor, strength, dexterity, evasion, magic evasion, primal and tooth & claw all at the same time

*cough* Gifts, Raise, Class abilities *coughs* Dragon aren't unique there. Dragon got NO WAY to fill all their gift slot on their own. Any other class can, with better end results. And I find it funny that youc an cast botht the Determination and Primal Roar at the same time to increase both TnC and Primal. Last time I checked, you couldn't.

- Dragons have abilities and spells to weaken their foes and make them more vulnerable to their attacks and spells which can be used for a pull

So does mage, cleric, and many other class. Nothing unique there.

- Dragons have more AoE spells that even a mage

That even a mage... laugh at? Can beat? The AoE are the only good spell a dragon have. But the dragon spell set is awfully basic and are among the SLOWEST to cast.

- Dragons have spells to enhance their ward against fire/ice/energy or nature/spirit/blight

So does mages and other classes. Nothing unique there.

- Most Dragon Spells can now be teched with Cleansing Technique

Most? Can you be more general? Only buff and healing spells. And guess what, the other tech for the breeze are broken. Lets not forget dragon got those at the same time they disable the triple tech, which every other class can still uses.

- Ancient Dragons have even better armor
- Ancient Dragons have even better spiked scales

It's called 'leveling' when we have lower stat to begin with, I don'T see leveling as a special thing.

- Ancient Dragons can resurrect once per hour

Oh yeah. and it cost you 5000 hoard. pretty frustrating, when any class can get a rez in 1 hour for FREE. And we waited 2 years for that. Nothing to be proud off.
- Can you rez me?
- Sure, got any hoard?
- No.
- I recommand you use the Recall button then.

- Ancient Dragons have a Drain Strike abilty

All Dragon got a Drain Strike, except now Ancient has to PAY to use it. Another frustrating free abilities converted to hoard, without any real increase in power.

- Ancient Dragons have an AoE breath weapon for 700-1000 damage being even better than DC

Oh yeah. And you forgot to mention we lost our AoE, which was GIVEN to us at the beginning, to our main dragon breath. While the damage is great, the original Dragon Breath really got nerfed bad.

...

Really someone out there calling dragons weak? Considering them broken or not yet completed? Being single class characters that traded flight for power?

I am "only" a Helian dragon with maximum training points in Primal skill as well as having all my scales teched for Primal skill. No extra strength or Vengence scales. Nonetheless I have about 2350 armor and I am well able to take down any named mob with only my own buffs most of them having not even the slightest chance. (Of course not taking SoG or Impaler into account). I killed Mouf yesterday without any damage to myself at all since it took me only the time that my Gold Shield, Refreshing Breeze and Spiked Scales were up. I am also well able to take on 6 indestructable fyakkis as well as groups of 12 purple spiders with 8 bloodsnout gruoks ...

Stop calling dragons weak ... those times are gone ...

YES. Dragon are weak. Dragon are incomplete. Dragon are in limbo.
Try taking a biped along with you and try to battle AS fast AS many mob it can. You'll fall fast behind it, I'm ready to bet it.

We're single classed, and have no way to get more powerful. We're weak. We,ve been promised power, and we're still waiting for it.

Want to take some challenge? Go to Fire Island and try to take Ravager without hoard.
Tell me if you're weak or strong.

[Pharcellus]

Blah blah blah

Dragons are meant to be more difficult, unfortunately in this game more difficult usually translates into more tedious. Hoard is part of making a dragon's development more difficult it is part of the dragon race. It is not a seperate school.

I never said it WAS a separate school. What I said was that it took the EFFORT as if it were at least one extra separate school, for biped REWARD FOR EFFORT comparison purposes. You remember that concept, right? REWARD FOR EFFORT? Yeah, I think you do.

However if you want me to be more specific Dragons are the strongest single class melee adv in the game.

..which compares to 2-3 biped classes in EFFORT. Thus, it doesn't compare to ONE biped class, it compares to a 2-3 class multiclass.

I can keep repeating it as much as you like, OK?

[imported_tjl]

Dragoniade I think you missed Narkano's point. Narkano wasn't really trying to say how unique or special dragons abilities are. He was pointing out that a dragon eventually has access to a heal, heal over time, DoT, AoE, good spells, excellent melee, 1 stun, buffs, debuffs, Dmg shields, rez, outstanding armor, decent health, flight, ... and a kitchen sink.

You will not find all this on a 1x100 biped.

You prob need a 4 x 100 biped to get similar versatility and capabilities. (in the correct classes... my 4 x 100 in the works doesnt even come close to a dragon. im fine with that though, I love my character.)

and you prob need a 6+ x 100 in the right classes to surpass all of a dragon's capabilities. and you will need some special items.

dragons are not weak. using "but it takes hoard to do x" as a counter-argument is weak. Hoard is part of what makes a dragon a dragon. Why is gold rage so uber? because it costs hoard. You pay a cost to have some of the best abilities in the game. are they somewhat undermined in power by 8+ x 100 characters with rare items... yeah. but that doesnt make a dragon weak.

Is there room for improvement? always. but saying they are weak and in limbo is not true.

[Dragoniade]

Is there room for improvement? always. but saying they are weak and in limbo is not true.

They are in limbo because once you reached level 100, it's game over.
No way to improve yourselves at all. Why everyone can make their character stronger, we're stuck in a stasis until some DEV wakes up and start putting contents that are actually FIXING something.

And hoard IS an issue. Without hoard, a dragon is nothing. And hoard doesn't grow on tree. Hoard doesn't drop on every monsters. Hoard abilities are just patches made by the DEV to make dragons look better, instead of actually fixing the issues.

And sorry, you don'T need 6x100 biped class to equals a dragon. Maybe 1x100 and 2-3 at 20. And once you got ONE school at 100, leveling the other ones to 20 is a breeze. Can't say the same for dragons.

[Kwinn]

Waaaaaah, keeeerist. If dragons suck so much why do people play them? Create a biped and grind out enough schools to be self-suffucient in battle and be able to hunt whatever yer li'l ol heart desires. Now THAT sucks! Talk about boring to the 27th degree of mind numbing...

These dragon v biped pissin contests get tiresome dontcha think? They are different, dragons and bipeds. And I would venture to say dragons can now DO more than bipeds...

Fly, dragons yes, bipeds no

Tremendous melee damage dragons beat bipeds hands down

Heals I haven't seen any dragons come close to dying lately. In Arena or out, Dragons seem to heal at least as effectively as bipeds(healers excluded)

Mass killing Well, I coached a guild dragon, Ghwerig can now take on t4 blights 20-25 at a time. T5 blights? sure, a few, a very select few, can mass farm those boys. Most cannot, too many stuns. And I bet those that can are usually Dryads.

Hoard dragons have it, bipeds dont. I wish the dragons that hunt and find enough to offset usage losses would speak up. I know for a fact it happens. The is isimply too much hoard dropping for it not to. If some dragons have trouble finding hoard, maybe they should piss off so many bipeds with their 'Holier than Thou' attitudes. They just might find that the majority of bipeds are more than willing to unload that worthless hoard crap on em.

Lairs from what I've seen, those are going to be nice when the dragons finally get to work on em. Size? Hell, I thought would be bigger than than they already are. Judging from the size of adults/ancients the biggest lairs would be the same as having a biped on a 50 x 50. Barely room to turn around, figuratively speaking


All things considered, IMO, dragons, when powered by some brains and the resolve to LEARN, can easily match any biped and out-do the majority.

[Tribunal]

Hoard dragons have it, bipeds dont. I wish the dragons that hunt and find enough to offset usage losses would speak up.

why? they have a clue, they have nothing to complain about.

[Pharcellus]

Dragoniade I think you missed Narkano's point. Narkano wasn't really trying to say how unique or special dragons abilities are. He was pointing out that a dragon eventually has access to a heal, heal over time, DoT, AoE, good spells, excellent melee, 1 stun, buffs, debuffs, Dmg shields, rez, outstanding armor, decent health, flight, ... and a kitchen sink.

... and I would point out that a biped "eventually" has access to much better versions of most if not all of that and more, whereas a Dragon gets what it gets and can never improve without some "gift" from the devs.

You will not find all this on a 1x100 biped.

Nor will you find it on a 1x100 biped effort-equivalent Dragon.

You prob need a 4 x 100 biped to get similar versatility and capabilities. (in the correct classes... my 4 x 100 in the works doesnt even come close to a dragon. im fine with that though, I love my character.)

That's probably closer to the level of effort required to make the Dragon you're comparing to. No, you can pick a really lousy class combo with a biped, no doubt. You can also pick a VERY effective one as well. Points are: a) you have a choice, and b) you can make it.

[Narkano]

Think you missed a significant point Dragoniade ... I AM a true spellcasting dragon like you. I have as much training points in Primal as possible and ALL scales teched with Primal. Nonetheless I am making a 1-hit-kill of an 100thlevel Massive Yew Treant with about 2.200 hits more often than not.

I dare not to think about whata true Lunustaking strength with his training points and techs and using vengence scales might be able to do.

And hoard? ... as I said I use ALL of a dragon's abilities to their fullest and whenever available again. As long as I am against mobs dropping hoard items my hoard level still tends to increase. Remember that if you hunt mobs levels 80+ they drop hoard items with an average value of about 20Keach. What are 5K for a rezz compared to that? Hunt 1 hour and you probable findat least 10-20 hoard items. More than you can ever use upin that time even in very tough battles.

Considering the versatility of a dragon it'll easily take 6 x 100th level of well chosen biped classes to even start to compete with a dragon. And I know of no combination of classes having CoT in conjunction with 2.350 armor, such a powerful HoT like Refreshing Breeze (there is no equal to that among biped spells) as well a Gold Shield to cut damage in half while at the same time having 4 AoE spells and dealing out 2.000+ melee damage every 15 secs.

Dragons have become incredible powerful indeed.

- Narkano

[Pharcellus]

A drop in the bucket yes, but how many of me are there? plenty

there are hoardables that are worth almost 100k by themselves, the 8 pricelss mirrors if I had gotten two more that day I would have gotten about 600K, thats only the priceless mirrors and I only used that example because of all the T6 hoard I get... thats the only one I can remember what it's called/spell.

now change your math to accomidate around 500k a day. not just the 100.

The problem with your logic is that L1 hatchlings are not going to be farming "priceless mirrors" from day one. They are going to be getting level-equivalent hoard items for their abilities. It isn't for a long time until they near the end of their advancement that they can even consider obtaining any significant number of those items. Thus, if you adjust the hoard acquisition curve for said linearity, and then consider the use:acquisition ratio, I think you'll start to get somewhere near the actual effort required to raise hoard to 100.

There are nice people in istaria, more than willing to just throw hoard around, I know it's not an easy thing to do, it's like a bi-ped asking to be power-leved, you just have to know the right people, and I know that they are out there.

The only hoard I ever have "given" to me is when I am part of a hunting group, and the bipeds in the group donate their loot picks of hoard items to me. That's about it. Once in a blue moon, someone will throw me a spare hoard item that they just so happen to have in their inventory. The rest of it I pay good coin for, in spite of my lair fund, and I will probably be outbid when I try to get a lair by the dragon alt of a biped. As such, I don't do it very often if at all anymore.

[Tribunal]

ohh, thats cool, the used a reference to a lvl 1, because you know at that time mazing out hoard is the only thing on their mind, there is no arguement there, but thnx for trying to find one.

You can get multiple peices of T1-T3 hoard before you lvl, for your current lvl it will be sufficient.

[Guaran]

I want to get off the merry-go-round! But it won't stop spinning!!!! AHHHHH!!H!HH!H!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pharcellus]

ohh, thats cool, the used a reference to a lvl 1, because you know at that time mazing out hoard is the only thing on their mind, there is no arguement there, but thnx for trying to find one.

You can get multiple peices of T1-T3 hoard before you lvl, for your current lvl it will be sufficient.

I wasn't trying to find an argument, I was simply placing another FACTUAL stipulation on the existing one.

SOLO Dragons aren't going to get that magical 100k+ (or 200k+ or 1000k+) hoard bump every day of their lives, because they can't HUNT those creatures for a LONG time. Thus, the actual time to get to L100 hoard will be LONGER for that fact, in addition to the others.

Do you have some problem debating an issue with facts, or must every post you make be some satirical slam on your opponents?

[Goriax]

A drop in the bucket yes, but how many of me are there? plenty

there are hoardables that are worth almost 100k by themselves, the 8 pricelss mirrors if I had gotten two more that day I would have gotten about 600K, thats only the priceless mirrors and I only used that example because of all the T6 hoard I get... thats the only one I can remember what it's called/spell.

now change your math to accomidate around 500k a day. not just the 100.

There are nice people in istaria, more than willing to just throw hoard around, I know it's not an easy thing to do, it's like a bi-ped asking to be power-leved, you just have to know the right people, and I know that they are out there.
.

You yourself said you found 100K a day typically. One day of 600K ain't going to cut it. So you have a nice day. So it only takes 235 days to max out instead of 240. Now if you find 600 K EVERY DAY that's something else again. Then we're only looking at 40 days, and I think your biped could still get a second school up to 100 in less time with that kind of dedicated powerleveling. Much less time. In any event that isn't what you said and a few good days aren't going to change much. Most dragons don't solo T6 for hoard a lotbecause, while the drops are nice when they come, you have to use more hoard so don't come out ahead.

Sure if you have SEVERAL people powerleveling (er giving hoard to) that dragon he'll go up faster. Just as if you had several people powerlevel your biped on his second school. Sure get 5 people giving on average 100K a day to a dragon andwe're looking at only 48 daysassuming nobody takes a day off. But if you had 5 people powerleveling your biped he'd go up even faster. You could probably offer to pay for powerleveling too. And yes, nice people will give hoard to a dragon, when you can find them with a bunch of hoard they haven't given away (or more likely deleted). Just like nice people will powerlevel a biped. But that has to happen consistently each and every day, just like you'd be looking for someone to powerlevel your biped consistently each and every day for the (far fewer) days it would take to hit 100.

I have never been one to moan and groan about how terrible dragons have it, because I've always been happy playing mine whether powerful or weak, easy or hard. But that doesn't meandragons haveit nearly as easy as some bipeds are making it out to be.

[imported_tjl]

Points are: a) you have a choice, and b) you can make it.

correct. Just like it was a choice to play dragon. They need hoard for their abilities, and they cannot multiclass. None of that was a secret when the characer was made, so I don't see how the complaints about "choice" and "nothing to do post 100" are totally justified.

It would be justified if there was some terrible imbalance, like you cannot kill mobs or craft... etc. But a game stopping imbalance does not exist. I have seen dragons of both factions do exceptionally well. (even in the dueling arena, vs some very high rated bipeds)

When I picked my character, I knew that arcane classes would never get to rez, or use awesome heals, or tank well, or fly, or use a sword... no matter how much multiclassing I did. In a way my advancement is limited too.

If you have issues with dragons, you have the free choice to play a biped that can multiclass, which many dragons do. Just like if I want to fly, have gold rage, rez, use a sword... I can roll a character that will allow it.

[Guaran]

Dragons: What are they?

Hungry? [:)]

[Tribunal]

yeah, the main arguement was about garthering hoard assuming you were lvl 100.

and I know about choice, I picked my class knowing full well that I would not be as powerful, not as good of defence as a melee class should have. But I enjoy it, and we lack so much, we have gotten the ******** beat out of us with nerfs, but we did not complain. And I can't multi-class efficiently either.

[Pharcellus]

correct. Just like it was a choice to play dragon. They need hoard for their abilities, and they cannot multiclass. None of that was a secret when the characer was made, so I don't see how the complaints about "choice" and "nothing to do post 100" are totally justified.

Wrong. At the time I created my character (release day), NOTHING more than the obvious was truly known, and we had a LOT of dev promises about a LOT of things, both biped AND Dragon. We didn't have any clue of the relative difficulty of one versus the other, we had no clue that there was a definite level cap (no one ever had a chance to reach it in beta, as they reset the test shards every few weeks), and we had no idea what options would be presented to us as a result to completing the RoP, and eventually the ARoP. In hindsight, yes, if I started a Dragon today, I would have no cause to complain, as the situation is well-known and oft-lamented. However, I have no choice that PRESERVES my investment in my character, unlike a biped, who can level every craft and adventure class to cap, in theory, and lose nothing. Thus, in this case, the complaint is quite justified, as far as I am concerned.

It would be justified if there was some terrible imbalance, like you cannot kill mobs or craft... etc. But a game stopping imbalance does not exist. I have seen dragons of both factions do exceptionally well. (even in the dueling arena, vs some very high rated bipeds)

Granted now the power gap is narrower, the "stuff to do to grow" imbalance still exists. Now we will have another new school, Lairshaping, coming soon, which is a step in the direction of having something to do, at least for CRAFTERS. There is still nothing definite yet in terms of what ADVENTURERS wish for in terms of advancement.

When I picked my character, I knew that arcane classes would never get to rez, or use awesome heals, or tank well, or fly, or use a sword... no matter how much multiclassing I did. In a way my advancement is limited too.

Only limited to talking to a trainer somewhere to switch classes to the most appropriate one to the task at hand. If it requires being a Healer, talk to the trainer *poof!* you're the best Healer. If it requires lots of melee damage output, like from a Berserker, talk to the trainer *poof!* you're the best Berserker.

I've been over this many times in the past with regards to pure classes vs multiclass. There's no advantage to being a pure Healer. None. A MMC Healer with AU 10, 1000 in each stat, 1000 in 1HC, 1000 in Evasion and Magic Evasion, with tons of carryover masterable abilities puts the poor single-class Healer to shame. It's a problem with capped unlimited multiclassing systems. Nothing new to see, really. It still sucks, and will continue to suck.

If you have issues with dragons, you have the free choice to play a biped that can multiclass, which many dragons do. Just like if I want to fly, have gold rage, rez, use a sword... I can roll a character that will allow it.

Yes, we do, but like I keep saying, we CAN NOT preserve our character investment like a biped can. Thus, the old "roll a biped if you want to do something you can't do as a Dragon" just doesn't cut it. Sorry.

[Jinx]

I just wanted to point out that a Guardian is very close to a Dragon with 0 hoard and without flight.

Guardians get 7 nature per level and 5 augmentation per level, compared to Dragons with 8 in Primal.

Nature has single target damage spells, area of effect damage spells, good heals, damage shields, buffs, etc.

Augmentation is the premier buffing skill.

Guardians get 10 two-handed crushing, 10 one-handed crushing, and 10 shield, as compared to dragons, who get8 Tooth and Claw.

Guardians get 9 Magic Evasion and 7 Evasion, Dragons get 8 in both.

Guardians get access to all armor except plate.

With a single class you can get nearly everything a dragon gets without hoard.

As far as stats,

Dragons get 7 Str, 7 Dex, 7 Power, 7 Focus, whether they have the adventure class only or they also have Dragon Crafting and Lairshaping.

Guardians get 8 Str, 4 Power, 6 Focus, and 8 Dex. If you add in Spellcrafting and Fitter Craft schools, that will change to 10 Str, 8 Power, 8 Focus, and 8 Dex.

And all that with 1 Adventure School, 1 regular Craft School, and 1 builder Craft School, same as dragons get.

After that, you can multiclass.

[Tribunal]

Yes, we do, but like I keep saying, we CAN NOT preserve our character investment like a biped can. Thus, the old "roll a biped if you want to do something you can't do as a Dragon" just doesn't cut it. Sorry.

what do you mean preserve your character?

why do dragons view bi-peds as beings that don't just stop, like your choice to play a dragon many of us choose not to multi-class. You always twist what you say in a way that makes you right, because for some reason you fail to see the other side of an arguement (typing that knowing full well you're going to post about it)

It is kinda pointless to argue with someone about topics such as these when they stay on their opinion and always bend what they say so they are not wrong, Trovos has proven it in a post earlier, and you said in one about changes and crap, "Welcome to the life of MMO".

It's time we laid a door mat on your porch that reads "Welcome to HZ" if you havn't figured out that TG Never tells anyone a reason why they usally change stuff, then you're lost and might as well quit. I can't figure out why you would stay if you dislike almost every aspec of your character aside from the fact that it is a dragon.

If you like a dragon enough to stay when everything is so wrong with it according to you, then so be it. You're a dragon. You play HZ. It's like a fedual contract, they offer you a game with a dragon, you pay to play it and enjoy it. Apparently you're doing one of those now.

I would have to say, with your extreame dislike of a Devs not speaking to you only makes you come to forums which are public and have very few devs actually post from time to time, then it's not that big a deal.

If you quit over it, it would be a big deal, because they lost players, just comming to forums and complaining while still paying them aint going to change anything. But even if you leave there are newbs replacing you and others all the time so it would quickly be channeled out.

Two choices now,

#1. Stay and complain for a lossing cause, regardless if they change it now or not I doubt the 2% of Dragons who are ramrodding this arguement will have influenced it.

#2. Quit, this game is going down the hole so fast I doubt it will chug along another year.

[Tribunal]

I just wanted to point out that a Guardian is very close to a Dragon with 0 hoard and without flight.

Guardians get 7 nature per level and 5 augmentation per level, compared to Dragons with 8 in Primal.

Nature has single target damage spells, area of effect damage spells, good heals, damage shields, buffs, etc.

Augmentation is the premier buffing skill.

Guardians get 10 two-handed crushing, 10 one-handed crushing, and 10 shield, as compared to dragons, who get8 Tooth and Claw.

Guardians get 9 Magic Evasion and 7 Evasion, Dragons get 8 in both.

Guardians get access to all armor except plate.

With a single class you can get nearly everything a dragon gets without hoard.

As far as stats,

Dragons get 7 Str, 7 Dex, 7 Power, 7 Focus, whether they have the adventure class only or they also have Dragon Crafting and Lairshaping.

Guardians get 8 Str, 4 Power, 6 Focus, and 8 Dex. If you add in Spellcrafting and Fitter Craft schools, that will change to 10 Str, 8 Power, 8 Focus, and 8 Dex.

And all that with 1 Adventure School, 1 regular Craft School, and 1 builder Craft School, same as dragons get.

After that, you can multiclass.

and yet dragons can take down 180+ rated bi-peds.

you cannot argue a dragon being weak with 0 hoard, is there a single one that has 0 hoard? a new hatchy, but once it figures out what hoard is for and sees it drop everywhere it wont be 0 for very long.