Dragons: What are they?

[Joaqim]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tribunal wrote:
learn to hunt correctly and you will find out.


LOL. Coming from someone who never played a dragon, those word are the lamer's excuses.
Those who say 'learn to hunt correctly' are the first to show how clueless they area about a race and a fighting way.

Well maybe he is right anyway. So a Guildie of mewas gettingone of those funky demon bows from SoG into his claws and decided to PL up a biped with help of his dragon (on 2nd account and PC). You tell me something about poor hoard and farming, he is taking to about 15 Fire Opal golems at once and by the way he even raised his hoard by 10 Mio - while the biped is not even uped now....
Dragons who are they? I guess some of them are the most awful whiners I've ever seen....
Dragons show a 4k Gold rage to my zerker, I do a 5k multi with boars mask on 20min timer... but I guess you prefer to wait 20 min instead of burning hoard.

[Tribunal]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tribunal wrote:
learn to hunt correctly and you will find out.


LOL. Coming from someone who never played a dragon, those word are the lamer's excuses.
Those who say 'learn to hunt correctly' are the first to show how clueless they area about a race and a fighting way.

fool? did you not read any of my other posts somewhere on this forum, I have mentioned I have played dragons.

I've gotten one up to adult hood around 56 along long time ago, back in the days of Bounty.

I know alot has changed, I know how it sucked, I see new dragons now. And they are nothing like I was.

[Tribunal]

I do understand what a dragon is: An incomplete race that biped like yourself don't want to be par with them, from hate and jealousy. Start playing one, then tell me how it feel. Until then, get down from your paper pedestal. You aren't king of this game.

Oh wait, I forgot you quit. Troll.

lol.

You are the worst debaiter in the forums, you choose to understand a few thing.

I know alot about Dragons, I have many dragon friends, I ask questions too so I can understand them better. You know, looking at the other side of an arguement to see if you're wrong, something that never crosses your mind. Even though from the looks of it, it wouldn't take very long for it you pass across your brain.

[Tribunal]

Invert the number and you'll get a more real number. oh. And farming 10 wolves and counting this as 1 out of 10 doesn't count. Dragons can't farm like a biped can, and dragon has no way to improve themselves to that level. You say you have to rage yourself to match a dragon? make me laugh. Dragon has to trigger their rage to do any damage and it cost them hoard. You can do it for free. So you want me to cry?

thats cool, I can't kill 10 wolves, I have a hard time with 2. and those are my numbers.

We all know dragons are poor at farming. Then why are you constantly comparing dragon with farming biped.
Hoard is easy to get... when FARMING.

lol I doubt you can even read, and this may sound bad, but I do cut some slack because I don't think you understand english completely (just jugding from your grammer, no offence and I mean it). I'm not compareing you to mass killer, I'm compareing you to a solo Bi-ped. Me, and I'm not as good as a dragon, you can do alot more than I can. Thus givin me a well supported arguement about how easy it is to gather hoard, and fight for it.

whats this jealous crap? what a lame put down, it's almost like you're trying to hurt me, along with the troll comment.

You are clueless, you have no idea how to play the game, it's impossible to argue with you because you don't believe it, and you don't even read what I say.

I can't stress enough how you should stop trying this hard to make a point.

you trying to counter my arguements is... well worthless, you can call me a troll, or envious all you want. It will just make me laugh. Telling me to learn the game, haha, you first bud, you've been here longer and anyone can see that you have yet to grasp the dragon concept.

P.S. Yes I do laugh reading most of your posts.

[Dragoniade]

Dragons show a 4k Gold rage to my zerker, I do a 5k multi with boars mask on 20min timer... but I guess you prefer to wait 20 min instead of burning hoard.

4K on a Gold rage???! What did you do? Use your zerker multiclass and used Banish Armor on the mob so that the dragon can get full damage? Or you got lucky and got an etheral damage crystal that all hit?

Guess what, what you saw is only LUCK.
I never managed to pull 4K on a single gold rage.

When you'll show me a screen shot with 4K of damages displayed WITHOUT any biped debuff, then I'll believe you.

[Dragoniade]

fool? did you not read any of my other posts somewhere on this forum, I have mentioned I have played dragons.

I've gotten one up to adult hood around 56 along long time ago, back in the days of Bounty.

I know alot has changed, I know how it sucked, I see new dragons now. And they are nothing like I was.

You've had a Level 56 more than 1 year ago? No wonder you're so out of the track regarding dragons.
The gameplay has changed a lot on the world since then, as you probably already noticed. But dragon, hey, they changed, but not to follow the world change.

[Dragoniade]

lol I doubt you can even read, and this may sound bad, but I do cut some slack because I don't think you understand english completely (just jugding from your grammer, no offence and I mean it). I'm not compareing you to mass killer, I'm compareing you to a solo Bi-ped. Me, and I'm not as good as a dragon, you can do alot more than I can. Thus givin me a well supported arguement about how easy it is to gather hoard, and fight for it.

Guess what, Horizons attract international people. USA isn't the center of the world, and people from other linguistical culture play that game. Lets continue that chat in french and see how you fare.

As comparing to a solo biped, I saw biped put dragon to shame in power, and not 10x100 ones. What did you level to be faring so low compared to dragon? 3x50 classes?

Cuz, I'm really wondering how you can fare so low compare to most dragon, unless you deliberately went to the worse classes in game.

[Narkano]

Sorry Dragoniade, but if you don'tlike the concept of dragons and/or don't understand how to play a dragon, better don't do it.

Currently I play my dragon most of the time. Many others here do the same. Some other players are out hunting with dragons and they can experience a dragon'sabilities firsthand and see what a dragon is able to do.

Nonetheless you doubt almost every statement or remark from those players and come up with poor arguments that arejust plain wrong even for dragons as theyhave beena year ago and clearly show that you have no clue how to play one.

Matter of factly even dragons from the Helian faction focused on Primal are well able to mass-kill T5 mobs now. No way to even start to doubt that since I do it on a daily basis as do others.

Matter of factly despiteall my battles I find enough hoard items on my own to at leastmaintain my current hoard level. Most of the time I even increase it.

Matter of factly no 100th level biped canhope to even come close to the might of a 100th level Ancient Dragon. It'll definitely take 4-6 well chosen classes at a full 100th level todo so. And even then no biped can beat a dragon in 1:1 combat against a named mob for example. At least my 100th level Healer / Cleric / Paladin / Druid / Monk / Warrior / Mage definitely can't.

- Narkano

[Pharcellus]

Sorry, Narkano, but when you are caught saying things that are blatantly false as well, it is hard to take anything else you are saying as 100% true, either. (c.f. "stuns guarantee hits")

Long before I could ever take on Mhedon solo, bipeds would take turns seeing how fast they could nuke his rocky butt into oblivion. That hasn't changed, and those bipeds have grown more powerful since that time. So, maybe it can be said that you don't know how to play your biped right, eh?

[Joaqim]

I want to see the screenshot of a 4K gold rage.

The only time I deal NEAR that amount is when I have elven leadership (BIPED) on me. And even then, I only hit for 1305x3.

Well, not shure what they did, but about that amountwas stated of already two different dragons on unity,armor wasn't banished for shure.

And no, a Zerker could never use Banish armor, it's Knight of Creation only ability.

[Joaqim]

Ok,
that's about the max I can get with an attack using boars mask:
[11/04/05 12:09:37] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Nature's Fury
[11/04/05 12:09:39] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Unbridled Energy
[11/04/05 12:09:39] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Power Style
[11/04/05 12:09:49] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar Hide Mask
[11/04/05 12:09:51] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar's Rage [ 54 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:54] Target is 6m out of range
[11/04/05 12:09:55] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar's Rage [ 54 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:56] Gained Berserker experience: 6068
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Red Vexator : Multistrike IV [ 1099 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Red Vexator : Multistrike IV [ 1040 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Red Vexator : Multistrike IV [ 1206 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Red Vexator : Multistrike IV [ 1336 ]
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Red Vexator : Multistrike IV [ 856 : Killed ]
[11/04/05 12:09:57] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar's Rage [ 53 ]
[11/04/05 12:10:01] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar's Rage [ 48 ]
[11/04/05 12:10:04] Beleenda -> Beleenda : Boar's Rage [ 49 ]
[11/04/05 12:10:04] You have looted 1 Exquisite Orb.

Now I've asked an Ancient for a screenshot of an max. dmg Rage now, using justGifts and his own buffs(the mentionedmax. shot of the Dragonwas 4.5k using biped Gifts, enhances, flame attach and infix Furry II and attack done alone wihtout any debuffing biped around)

[Deth]

Well maybe he is right anyway. So a Guildie of mewas gettingone of those funky demon bows from SoG into his claws and decided to PL up a biped with help of his dragon (on 2nd account and PC). You tell me something about poor hoard and farming, he is taking to about 15 Fire Opal golems at once and by the way he even raised his hoard by 10 Mio - while the biped is not even uped now....
Dragons who are they? I guess some of them are the most awful whiners I've ever seen....
Dragons show a 4k Gold rage to my zerker, I do a 5k multi with boars mask on 20min timer... but I guess you prefer to wait 20 min instead of burning hoard.

Taking 15 Fire Opals is with Biped Gifts right? Same with the 4k Gold Strike right?

I think both sides are also not taking into account that the other side is not/is using Bipeds Gifts. I assume Dragoniade is solo hunting with no Biped Gifts where the Bipeds are seeing or Having Dragons that have gifts.

I can tell you a Fully Biped Buffed Dragon is a truly Scary thing to see. All these people saying how powerful a Dragon is has to be watching a Buffed Dragon go to town. I know I see a great increase in my power and killing speed is a nice Biped buffs me out in tier 5 buffs. I go from taking a 95 fire opal Golem at 86at about half to 1/3 health at the end to about 3/4 2/3 health,if that low, in about half the time.

Yes it is a choicesome dragons make not to hunt with bipeds. Just like some Bipeds make the choice not to level up a buffer class. But This should be kept in mind and both sides should qualify their statements more with a Buffed dragon can do this or a Unbuffed Dragon can do this.

In other games Dragons would not be so out in the cold as they are here because there. Every other non-buffer would be in the same boat as the dragons. But here Bipeds have the option to take a buffer class. Which is what Dragons are asking for. We just want the same ability as Bipeds.

Also just thinking of something that I do not think any Dragon asking for the ability to multiclass is asking is we do not want to keep our old abilities too. Me for one Just asa biped if I was able to and did start down leveling a dragon spell caster, I would not complain if my Gold Rage, Silver Strike, Ravage all were unmasterable and I had to work off of my New Dragon Caster abilities. The same would go as a Buffer, Or if I took Dragon Fighter if my Spells were not cast-able and such. I think Most Bipeds assume that new Dragon Classes would stack completely on top of Dragon adventure. No they would not as that would be to ungodly.

[Dragoniade]

Taking 15 Fire Opals is with Biped Gifts right? Same with the 4k Gold Strike right?

I think both sides are also not taking into account that the other side is not/is using Bipeds Gifts. I assume Dragoniade is solo hunting with no Biped Gifts where the Bipeds are seeing or Having Dragons that have gifts.

Yes. I'm fighting with biped gifts (Alacrity, Power, Focus and Armor). Otherwise, I would stand even less of a chance of survival. 25% haste is really making a difference over our mere 5% we're getting at Ancient. And even with gifts, I'm far from doing 4K damage with a single attack on a Single target.

Remove the gifts, and watch the dragon fall even faster.

I can tell you a Fully Biped Buffed Dragon is a truly Scary thing to see. All these people saying how powerful a Dragon is has to be watching a Buffed Dragon go to town. I know I see a great increase in my power and killing speed is a nice Biped buffs me out in tier 5 buffs. I go from taking a 95 fire opal Golem at 86 at about half to 1/3 health at the end to about 3/4 2/3 health,if that low, in about half the time.

Golem are easy. They're so slow you can take them without problem 1 on 1 a lot earlier. It's like taking tarbantine (sp) golem, which are level 110 or so these day. But try taking more than one at once, or catch an extra aggro or two. Your chance of survival are going to go down dramatically.

In other games Dragons would not be so out in the cold as they are here because there. Every other non-buffer would be in the same boat as the dragons. But here Bipeds have the option to take a buffer class. Which is what Dragons are asking for. We just want the same ability as Bipeds.

Also just thinking of something that I do not think any Dragon asking for the ability to multiclass is asking is we do not want to keep our old abilities too. Me for one Just as a biped if I was able to and did start down leveling a dragon spell caster, I would not complain if my Gold Rage, Silver Strike, Ravage all were unmasterable and I had to work off of my New Dragon Caster abilities. The same would go as a Buffer, Or if I took Dragon Fighter if my Spells were not cast-able and such. I think Most Bipeds assume that new Dragon Classes would stack completely on top of Dragon adventure. No they would not as that would be to ungodly.

[/quote]

I have yet to see other game with playable dragons and playable other races. The issue here is the imballance between race. We lack a lot of stuff anyone can get with making some effort. I want to be able to get those, with some effort. Right now, we're a stallmate, unable to progress. We can't increase our stats, We can increase our skills, we can't get new abilities unless they are given to use. I don't want given stuff; I want a forkroad for me to choose my path.


Give me a choice between a full mellee and a full mage dragon, and I'll immediatly pick the second, if they finally manage to fix the Primal issues with dragon. There's too much TnC Based abilities to make an effective caster.
Give us dragon Gift Buffs (We have 5 slots and can only fill one). Give us Primal buff (All of our spells affect Mellee stats. Promote Vitality increase Dexterity and Strength. When will we see "Promote Mentality"?
Or some real healing spells? Biped have access to like 2-3 healing spell for most class.

Give dragon versatility. Right now, there's only one way to play dragon, one way to equip them, one way to fight, if you want to be good. Dragons don't want to be biped copies, but right now, they're all clone of each other.

[Guaran]

I still maintain that Dragons are hungry.[pi] You guys don't know what you are talking about. Film at 11

Dragons currently have semi-poor spell ability. Fact is we are hybrid fighters and Melee is the strong skill. Assuming you burn hoard. Hunting in the right place you can break even or even slowly add to hoard. Or craft grind hoard or pawn scales to make money to buy hoard. That part of the hoard mechanic was mind numbingly boring, but once you get the hoard level up it can be sustained much more realistically than before they added the new hoardloot. The most effective Dragons currently will be the Melee fighters. When Gold burst is finally added that may change.

4k gold rage only happens with biped buffs, misty (ethereal damage) weapon stone, and some luck, and some knowledge and skill. Of course tp's into STR and well designed scales help. The times I see a big gold rage are usually when I have full complment of buffs and enhances, natures fury, aura of the bear, and the misty fires off on a gold rage. it's not every attack mind you. For low hp mobs (single target)dragons who are well equipped are just as good or better than bipeds at taking them down. Tougher, stunning mobs like vexators can still spell certain doom if you dont have refreshing breeze (heal over time ability, 5 minute recycle) going, and for those we are essentially on 5 minute timers taking them down. You can get lucky and kill them before you die, or get even a single add of any kind and bite it. It certainly can be done though. 2k hp mobs for the most part do not stand much chanceagainst fully combat hardened Dragons, nor should they. Bigger boss mobs, the bipeds end up fairing better since repetitive healing is necessary to survive. How many dragons can solo Night stalker or Dark Stalker? How many bipeds? SoG used to be killed regularly by single bipeds with combinations of stuns and mezzes ( not sure those still work on him tho). There are different situations where one or the other comes out ahead. imho this is as it should be. When a Dragon and a biped work together, the Gifted of Istaria come out victorious. The sooner you all learn that, the sooner the scourge can be wiped from the land.

[Narkano]

Sorry, Narkano, but when you are caught saying things that are blatantly false as well, it is hard to take anything else you are saying as 100% true, either. (c.f. "stuns guarantee hits")

I just said that I myself do not remember missing a strike against a stunned target.No more, no less. Never said anything about a guaranteed hit. But chances to hit are nodoubt better against a stunned foe ... and don't ask me why, butI rarely miss anyway.

Long before I could ever take on Mhedon solo, bipeds would take turns seeing how fast they could nuke his rocky butt into oblivion. That hasn't changed, and those bipeds have grown more powerful since that time. So, maybe it can be said that you don't know how to play your biped right, eh?

No, that cannot be said. Of course my biped can easilytake onMhedon solo but needs more time and must be more careful to finish him than my dragon. Even more distinctive with Mouf. My biped must be careful with his approach and if Mouf uses his rage abilityhe most oftenstuns or roots him, becausehe cannot heal away that much damage.(and he has no skill with spirit or blight) With my dragon I managed to kill Mouf without taking any significant damage at all, since he needed only that little time whilehis Spiked Scales, Refreshing Breeze and Gold Shield abilities were up. With my biped I can use each and every trick available to me, but I will never be able to kill Mouf that fast and with that little damage to myself.

But This should be kept in mind and both sides should qualify their statements more with a Buffed dragon can do this or a Unbuffed Dragon can do this.

I hunt only with my own dragon buffs most of the time and all my previous statements didn't take any biped buffs into account.

Give us dragon Gift Buffs (We have 5 slots and can only fill one).

Remember that Dragon's Gift is four gifts in one no matter the number ofslots. Dragon's Gift IV grants you +70 to Primal, +70 to Tooth & Claw, +70 to Evasion and +70 to Magic Evasion. Of course you can get it as 4 separate Gifts to fill up more of your slots. But do you really want that?

Give us Primal buff (All of our spells affect Melee stats).

Remember Primal Roarability. Primal Roar Vgrantsyou +155 to +205 to your Power and +161 to hit with your spells.

And if you consider the recycle time of your Refreshing Breeze ability remember the duration of 1:30. Recycling starts when you activate the ability. So recycle time is not really 5:00 but just 3:30 from the time when the effect expires.

... and I DO NOT want to sing praises of my dragon! I just can no longerbear those dragons still whining abouthow weak they arecompared to bipeds. Dragons are no longer weak they are quite the opposite!Nonetheless I like to be about hunting with friends - bipeds and dragons - and of course I really like my biped characters ... [:)]


- Narkano

[Pharcellus]

I just said that I myself do not remember missing a strike against a stunned target.No more, no less. Never said anything about a guaranteed hit. But chances to hit are nodoubt better against a stunned foe ... and don't ask me why, butI rarely miss anyway.

Well, I and other Dragons I hunt with regularly (Helian and Lunus alike) do.

No, that cannot be said. Of course my biped can easilytake onMhedon solo but needs more time and must be more careful to finish him than my dragon.

Then, by the same token, it cannot be said of me, either. I KNOW how to play my character. I have been DOING IT for over TWO YEARS. I have had to change my tactics several times over that period as the Dragon characters have changed. The fact of the matter is my play experience does not parallel what you describe. In fact, I have NEVER played with another Dragon that has the capabilities you describe here, so it doesn't make any sense that the whole shard full of Dragons doesn't know how to "play their characters".

With my biped I can use each and every trick available to me, but I will never be able to kill Mouf that fast and with that little damage to myself.

Level the right classes and take the right combo to kill him, and you won't have ANY trouble at all killing Mouf or any other named. Other bipeds have before you, so it's more than possible.

I hunt only with my own dragon buffs most of the time and all my previous statements didn't take any biped buffs into account.

Uh huh. Sure thing. [8-)]

Remember that Dragon's Gift is four gifts in one no matter the number ofslots. Dragon's Gift IV grants you +70 to Primal, +70 to Tooth & Claw, +70 to Evasion and +70 to Magic Evasion. Of course you can get it as 4 separate Gifts to fill up more of your slots. But do you really want that?

..at half value. Remember that T5 gifts mostly give bonuses in the +200 range.

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Dragoniade wrote:Give us Primal buff (All of our spells affect Melee stats).

Remember Primal Roarability. Primal Roar Vgrantsyou +155 to +205 to your Power and +161 to hit with your spells.

He said SPELLS, Narkano. None of our SPELLS affect Power or Primal. Melee Dragons have Determination, Promote Vitality, and True Grit. Mage Dragons have Primal Roar. That's it.

And if you consider the recycle time of your Refreshing Breeze ability remember the duration of 1:30. Recycling starts when you activate the ability. So recycle time is not really 5:00 but just 3:30 from the time when the effect expires.

Please don't go redefining terms here. Recycle time is still 5:00. DOWN time is 3:30. Duty cycle is 30% (percentage of active time over recycle time). What that means is that you can only count on Refreshing Breeze for 1 of 2 or 3 combats. Breeze spells are poor substitutes for combat heals.

... and I DO NOT want to sing praises of my dragon! I just can no longerbear those dragons still whining abouthow weak they arecompared to bipeds. Dragons are no longer weak they are quite the opposite!Nonetheless I like to be about hunting with friends - bipeds and dragons - and of course I really like my biped characters ... [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Then don't read/listen to it. I get just as tired of people making stuff up or embellishing on their abilities, when the fact of the matter is quite the opposite for me and every other Dragon I know and have hunted with. I'm aware of the fact that we have become more powerful, but the option to achieve some goals is still closed to us. Either we should be able to flat out destroy entire fields of certain types of mobs that bipeds can only dream of while being significantly weak against other types of mobs that bipeds can rock, or we should be able to EARN (I've never asked for anything to be handed to me on a mithril platter, EVER, so don't go there) the power to be equal to bipeds in any area we desire. Personally, I wish the devs would have stuck to their original vision and made Dragons at least ten times as hard to play, but have at least twice the capability of any other race in the game when they finally do reach the absolute pinnacle of their power curve. They're frickin' ANCIENT DRAGONS. Well, no, in Horizons, they're really just polymorphed bipeds who forgot how to be versatile.

[Narkano]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Narkano wrote: I just said that I myself do not remember missing a strike against a stunned target.No more, no less. Never said anything about a guaranteed hit. But chances to hit are nodoubt better against a stunned foe ... and don't ask me why, butI rarely miss anyway.

Well, I and other Dragons I hunt with regularly (Helian and Lunus alike) do.

Well, that's not my fault. I can only tell about my personal experiences. That tactics of using Tail Whip first worked just fine for me since my time as a hatchling and still works well for my second dragon character that still is a hatchling.

No, that cannot be said. Of course my biped can easilytake onMhedon solo but needs more time and must be more careful to finish him than my dragon.

Then, by the same token, it cannot be said of me, either. I KNOW how to play my character. I have been DOING IT for over TWO YEARS. I have had to change my tactics several times over that period as the Dragon characters have changed. The fact of the matter is my play experience does not parallel what you describe. In fact, I have NEVER played with another Dragon that has the capabilities you describe here, so it doesn't make any sense that the whole shard full of Dragons doesn't know how to "play their characters".

With my biped I can use each and every trick available to me, but I will never be able to kill Mouf that fast and with that little damage to myself.

Level the right classes and take the right combo to kill him, and you won't have ANY trouble at all killing Mouf or any other named. Other bipeds have before you, so it's more than possible.

Again I can only tell about my experiences with the classes given for my biped above and with me being cleric or paladin most of the time. Neither biped nor dragon possess any extraordinary items beside well teched weapons, armor, jewelry, clawsand scales. Biped can use either spells or weapons with melee abilities recycling between 2 to 5 minutes. Using allskills available to him he still needs quite some time to killArboreon, Furahrage, Lorgus, Mhedon, Mouf etc. alone and to him they prove to be tough foes. Nonetheless he has no trouble killing them in the end. From that experience I firstwasquite afraid of attacking them alonewhen I had to during ARoP.But to my amazement I had little trouble bringing them down even as an Adult Dragon. Since then asAncient Dragon I regulary hunted all namedfor missing techs. Killing them all within the time of Spiked Scales, Refreshing Breeze and Gold Shield which is much quicker than any biped I know of including my own.

I hunt only with my own dragon buffs most of the time and all my previous statements didn't take any biped buffs into account.

Uh huh. Sure thing. [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-43.gif[/img]

Any comments about that?

Remember that Dragon's Gift is four gifts in one no matter the number ofslots. Dragon's Gift IV grants you +70 to Primal, +70 to Tooth & Claw, +70 to Evasion and +70 to Magic Evasion. Of course you can get it as 4 separate Gifts to fill up more of your slots. But do you really want that?

..at half value. Remember that T5 gifts mostly give bonuses in the +200 range.

We're speaking about Gifts using gift slots. Tier 5 Gifts of Strength, Dexterity, Focus and Power give bonuses of +80.With Gift of Armor+41 and Gift of Health +212. You perhaps meant Enhances or Raises. And remember that Dragon's Gift is a Tier 4 Gift.

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Dragoniade wrote: Give us Primal buff (All of our spells affect Melee stats).

Remember Primal Roarability. Primal Roar Vgrantsyou +155 to +205 to your Power and +161 to hit with your spells.

He said SPELLS, Narkano. None of our SPELLS affect Power or Primal. Melee Dragons have Determination, Promote Vitality, and True Grit. Mage Dragons have Primal Roar. That's it.

True Grit is beneficial for both, warrior and mage. And I used the term "spells" since most people refer to those spells and abilities simply as "spells"in a colloquial expression.

And if you consider the recycle time of your Refreshing Breeze ability remember the duration of 1:30. Recycling starts when you activate the ability. So recycle time is not really 5:00 but just 3:30 from the time when the effect expires.

Please don't go redefining terms here. Recycle time is still 5:00. DOWN time is 3:30. Duty cycle is 30% (percentage of active time over recycle time). What that means is that you can only count on Refreshing Breeze for 1 of 2 or 3 combats. Breeze spells are poor substitutes for combat heals.

I do not redefine terms. Recycle time left after the ability expires simply is 3:30 andafterthat timeyou can use it again. Call it down time or whatever you like. And Refreshing Breeze is a very powerful ability given the quick recycle time.

... and I DO NOT want to sing praises of my dragon! I just can no longerbear those dragons still whining abouthow weak they arecompared to bipeds. Dragons are no longer weak they are quite the opposite!Nonetheless I like to be about hunting with friends - bipeds and dragons - and of course I really like my biped characters ... [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Then don't read/listen to it. I get just as tired of people making stuff up or embellishing on their abilities, when the fact of the matter is quite the opposite for me and every other Dragon I know and have hunted with. I'm aware of the fact that we have become more powerful, but the option to achieve some goals is still closed to us. Either we should be able to flat out destroy entire fields of certain types of mobs that bipeds can only dream of while being significantly weak against other types of mobs that bipeds can rock, or we should be able to EARN (I've never asked for anything to be handed to me on a mithril platter, EVER, so don't go there) the power to be equal to bipeds in any area we desire. Personally, I wish the devs would have stuck to their original vision and made Dragons at least ten times as hard to play, but have at least twice the capability of any other race in the game when they finally do reach the absolute pinnacle of their power curve. They're frickin' ANCIENT DRAGONS. Well, no, in Horizons, they're really just polymorphed bipeds who forgot how to be versatile.

Fully agree with you incertain points. But that's the stuff of suggestions and I am sure dragons can expect further content. But there are many classes still broken that could need some attention and on the ladder dragons are now many steps above them.

- Narkano

[Pharcellus]

Well, that's not my fault. I can only tell about my personal experiences. That tactics of using Tail Whip first worked just fine for me since my time as a hatchling and still works well for my second dragon character that still is a hatchling.

Never said it was your fault. All I can do is tell you of my experiences. I can't explain the discrepancies between our experiences, I just know that they are there. I also never said that Tail Swipe didn't work. I said it does not guarantee hits, and I still miss quite often with attacks after Tail Swiping. Does it improve your chance to hit against a mob? Depends on the mob. Some mobs don't have Dodge/Parry/Block abilities, but instead have higher Evasion to compensate. For those, it won't make ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. For the ones that do have such abilities, it still does not improve your chances of overcoming their Evasion.

True Grit is beneficial for both, warrior and mage. And I used the term "spells" since most people refer to those spells and abilities simply as "spells"in a colloquial expression.

True Grit has NO EFFECT on spellcasting. No, abilities are not spells, even in a "colloquial" sense (at least I don't hear people make that mistake very often, unlike people saying "stone bars" or "metal bricks"; it's still incorrect usage). I understood Dragoniade's distinction. It is an important one.

I do not redefine terms. Recycle time left after the ability expires simply is 3:30 andafterthat timeyou can use it again. Call it down time or whatever you like. And Refreshing Breeze is a very powerful ability given the quick recycle time.

Recycle time for Refreshing Breeze is 5 minutes. Period. That's what it says in the description. That's the proper usage of the term. Down time is 3:30. That's my usage, as there is no "standard" usage in the game documentation for describing the time when a timed effect ends versus when it is available for activation again. It is a common colloquialism in MMOs, however.

Refreshing Breeze is easily exceeded by the revite/imp revit line (with recycle, cleanse, and potency/heal increase), which most (if not all) biped classes can use. That's just in the duration. Consider that a biped can keep casting revit/imp revit during Ref Breeze's down time, you can see where it falls short.

Fully agree with you incertain points. But that's the stuff of suggestions and I am sure dragons can expect further content. But there are many classes still broken that could need some attention and on the ladder dragons are now many steps above them.

..and you'll note nowhere have I suggested otherwise, so you're preaching at the choir with that one. I'm merely pointing out the discrepancies and potentially what is causing them, as far as I can tell. I've lived with the problems for two years; I can live with them a bit longer. I certainly won't be silent about them, nor will I suffer someone to tell me my experiences are "wrong" nor a result of "not knowing how to play". If they do, then they are more than welcome to come onto Order and "teach" me and/or see for themselves first-hand what I am seeing.

[Dragoniade]

Remember that Dragon's Gift is four gifts in one no matter the number of slots. Dragon's Gift IV grants you +70 to Primal, +70 to Tooth & Claw, +70 to Evasion and +70 to Magic Evasion. Of course you can get it as 4 separate Gifts to fill up more of your slots. But do you really want that?

Remember Gift of toughness that give you health and armor bonus?
Remeber that Raises and Gifts stacks?


Remember Primal Roar ability. Primal Roar V grants you +155 to +205 to your Power and +161 to hit with your spells.
[/quote]
Remember DETERMINATION? Primal roar is the counterpart of Determination, which give you the same to the melle.
Point is, melee get BOTH determination and Promote Vitality. Caster get only one.
And don't forget that Determination and Primal Roar don't stack.

And if you consider the recycle time of your Refreshing Breeze ability remember the duration of 1:30. Recycling starts when you activate the ability. So recycle time is not really 5:00 but just 3:30 from the time when the effect expires.

... and I DO NOT want to sing praises of my dragon! I just can no longer bear those dragons still whining about how weak they are compared to bipeds. Dragons are no longer weak they are quite the opposite! Nonetheless I like to be about hunting with friends - bipeds and dragons - and of course I really like my biped characters ... Smile

So are all other abilities. Refreshing Breeze is the same as Regeneration. Our other breeze are nothing more than weak Regrowth. Dragon got nothing special here. Small heal, like everyone else, and no way to actually improve them. Heal increase has always been, and still is, broken. All of our good heal are on huge timer. Their only usage is for emergency. Other than that, it's fight, sit and wait. Fight, sit and wait.

[Dragoniade]

[11/02/05 14:41:30] Auril uses Elven Leadership.
[11/02/05 14:41:38] You hit Valkor The Impaler with Gold Rage VII for 1259 damage.
[11/02/05 14:41:38] You hit Valkor The Impaler with Gold Rage VII for 1259 damage.
[11/02/05 14:41:38] You hit Valkor The Impaler with Gold Rage VII for 1259 damage.

There ya go.

Leadership+Gifts/Enhances/FlameAttack/Druid buffs.

Let me guess. TnC teched Strength scales
And I got to say, that confirm my point: A normal dragon cannot do that. You were totally biped powered.

Could you try the same without the biped power up and give me an average of your damage?

oh. And where's the screen shot?

Cuz, well, that's a lucky shot, but not the standard.