Dragon Lair Update: November 14, 2005

[David Bowman]

Dragon Lair auctions on Chaos and Order will begin on Thursday, November 17, 2005 after an update maintenance. The auction will conclude on Monday, November 28, 2005. A complete list of lairs and their auction conclusion times will be available on the community site by Thursday.

Thank you all for your help in getting the Lairs into the game. We still have more testing to do, and will continue to make adjustments based on your valuable feedback.

David

[Unicorn's Lady]

Yea!!!!!!! [Y]



But don't forget to fix the lair at Granite Hills before the auctions starts!!!!!!! [:O]



Nellie Lovett/Ochre Tekton
of Azure Twilight in Carmo on Order

[oluviel]

Dragon Lair auctions on Chaos and Order will begin on Thursday, November 17, 2005 after an update maintenance. The auction will conclude on Monday, November 28, 2005. A complete list of lairs and their auction conclusion times will be available on the community site by Thursday.

Thank you all for your help in getting the Lairs into the game. We still have more testing to do, and will continue to make adjustments based on your valuable feedback.

David

It's pretty clear this push for thursday is so that it can be announced at gencon, but is this everything that was to be announced at it? is there still something bigger and beyond our guesses that is to be announced?

[Tantalyr]

David, I have to agree with Kumu for the reasons stated in my post in the update for November 13. Please, please consider those arguments and reconsider your proposal to start bidding so early.

[oluviel]

i would have to agree as well. Lairs can still technically be promoted as live content even if the auctions don't start for a week or so until these bugs are fully squashed. Dragons need time to level their laircrafting anyway.

this is the horizons community we are accustomed to waiting on long lines but we still never like bugs.

[David Bowman]

It is clear that you do not quite understand how this works yet, which is our fault. We are putting up an explanation of auctioning for those who have not previously experienced one.

On this Thursday, it will be possible on Chaos and Order to begin placing bids on Lairs. You will have 11 days to place your bids. That is a significant amount of time to decide on which Lair plots you'd like to bid. If you feel you need more time than that to make your decision, please feel free to express that.

On Monday the 28th the bidding closes and you Lair plots will begin to be won by the highest bidder. This is a closed bid auction, so there is no advantage to camping the bidding at the last minute. You could make a bid on every single Lair plot in the game if you so choose. We will be posting the Lair plots, their locations, dimensions, Empire prices, and the time and order in which the auction will close on Monday.

David Bowman

[Deth]

Dragons need time to level their laircrafting anyway..

With out lairs to work on thier is no easy wasy to level your laircraft. You only get XP for making final construction items, small amount, and applying them to lairs, the largest amount.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

I dont think that is where the protesting is coming from..

I'm with Kumu, Tant, and I'm sure others..

You are putting live, afterthe "big huge patch" the auctions starting the same day as we find out what Empire Prices are, the day we find out what sizes lairs will finally be, the day people get to see what lairs are available in their already established guild community..as well as the intended schedule of auctions....

All this in one day... and hoping it all goes off without a hitch :) (like say the prices are displayed wrong, or the sizes, or whatever...)

So people are gonna feel rushed. They are gonna feel they don't have a few days of "non-competition" to fly around, look at measurements, locations, NEW locations, and figure out the "timing" of the bidding to see what order they want to bid on stuff in and make those decisions without feelign THEY MUST DO IT RIGHT NOW NOW NOW!

The fact that you are doing this ALL IN ONE PATCH - very much sends the message (if you don't intend it, you shouldn't do it this way) - that you guys, after all these months, are now pushing to release it to live NOW NOW NOW QUICK ALL AT THE SAME TIME NOW!

This is the vibe you are sending. That you're rushing it for a small purpose.

It would say make a bit more 'sense' and seem 'not so rushed' if you say went with the patch Thursday, released all the sizes and prices and new lair locations and at LEAST waited until TUESDAY (the tuesday after patch day, the one right before thanksgiving) to start the auctions, which can then last one week or whatever as normal.

Once again, Bipeds got plenty of warning, plenty of shoptime, and the week long auctions that went in shifts through the regions (so it actually took several weeks to complete if I'm remembering this correctly)

Dragons are getting 3 days warning, no time to shop and plan before auctions go live, and all lairs getting sold in the same 11 day period?

Which means entire sections of continents are going to be auctioned in a single day or two or three - over a Holiday (that many will be out of town for) - if you are "rotating" finsihing times to allow for multiple bids (which seems to be the way you are saying with scheduling different areas to be finished at different times).

Let it go over Thanksgiving if you have to - I don't think ayone will be complaining.

But they will if the lair choices they want are being auctions during a vacation period and they can't be in game. They will if they feel that they are being rushed to have to bid before fully realizing their options and scheduling issues.

Do the Patch Thursday, but at least wait over the weekend (four days) of perusal and start the auctions Tuesday.

Or even better, start them AFTER the Holiday is Over - and give a week or 14 days or whatever after that.

Its not confusion over the procee, the protesting is due to this lack of warning, the rushed feeling, and the idea that basically dragons are "shafted" again since biped plots were done in a much more organized, "leisurely", way, if you wish to use those words.

I dont feel we're being "screwed" but I definitely feel this is being rushed..and its not fair that we dont get the same "competition free" perusal and "planning" time as bipeds - and all of it being scheduled over a four day holiday for most people.

[Dragoniade]

Very stupid idea. Like Frith-Rae said, people will feel presured to go secure lairs.
Why did biped had over a week to look at the new plots when the merge occured? Why don't dragon get the same treatment.

And the deadline is right over the USA Thanksgiving. How many player won't be able to log that week-end? How many player actually only play on week-end and are going to miss that week-end too?

Really, that's a bad thinking, or very short sighted.
Give people up to 28 before OPENING the bids, then give up to december before CLOSING bids

And fix the school so that at least people can work a bit on their lairshaper school before working on their lair. Give dragon a break already. We've been patient already with this. You don't have to ruin the finally awaited Lairs by rushing it half finished.

And I told you and I keep repeating it: It's two laws, two justice, when it come to dragons.

[PJ]

Don't think you quite understood Frith.

Timeline:

Today, the 14th: Announcement of auctions
Thursday the 17th: Plot Auctions will begin in that players may now place bids. No plots are being sold yet.
Monday the 28th:Bidding will close and plots will start being sold to whomever bid the highest during the preceeding 11 days.

[Kitimandiri]

I agree with dragonaide on that closing right after thanksgiving is a bad idea. I think it should be closed the next monday. I don't think it would ruin anyone's life, but I think it would be very bitter for people who can't play during the week then have to take off for thanksgiving.

[Death-knell]

On Monday the 28th the bidding closes and you Lair plots will begin to be won by the highest bidder. This is a closed bid auction, so there is no advantage to camping the bidding at the last minute. You could make a bid on every single Lair plot in the game if you so choose. We will be posting the Lair plots, their locations, dimensions, Empire prices, and the time and order in which the auction will close on Monday.

David Bowman

Yeah, I don't understand. What does closed bidding mean? I hope you don't mean that no one can see the highest bid. That would be seriously screwed, cause say a lair sells for 500sp. But I have no way of knowing what the high bid is, so I dump 5 gp down to buy it. In the end no one else bid on it so I just seriously overpaid for it. I'm hoping it means you can see high bid and just can't see who placed it.

[PJ]

Closed Bidding means you can only see your bid, not who else bid or how much they bid. Although you can see how many other people have placed bids. That's how biped plots were auctioned.

[Death-knell]

Nice, I love just throwing money away

[PJ]

No Auction system is perfect. Blind Auctions prevent people who can play whenever they wish from sniping auctions 5 minutes before bidding closes. How would you feel if you'd have gone to sleep on the 27th winning your chosen lair, and somebody outbid you by 1cp on monday morning while you were at work/school?

[LaughingOtter]

Bid the amount the lair is worth to you to win. Take your best shot, and only bid on ones you would be happy with if you win.

This is just the way biped plots are sold. Best of luck to everyone. [:D]

[dorrin]

best idea i've heard is .. fine.. go ahead and open bidding this thursday, but don't close the auctions 'til the monday 1 week after thanksgiving weekend. i know you guys want to announce this at gencon, and honestly.. WE ALL SHOULD TOO.. if we want HZ to grow, getting the word out at gencon is a great way to do it.. but man.. give the people who are currently playing a break on this, particularly the casual players.


i do have one question about these auctions... i don't remember from the biped plot auctions last year, but... how is it determined which plot you win if you would have won on more than one, since you can bid on more than one plot?

[Tantalyr]

i do have one question about these auctions... i don't remember from the biped plot auctions last year, but... how is it determined which plot you win if you would have won on more than one, since you can bid on more than one plot?

With the biped plot auctions, the plots were auctioned off by area in a particular order (alphabetical if I remember rightly). So, if you, for example, bid on 7 plots you won the first plot in which you were the highest bidder, and all your other bids were immediately erased. You could, however, immediately sell the plot you won back to the Empire and run round placing bids on non-auctioned plots if you weren't satisfied with the plot that you won first.

That involves the bidding strategy I've spoken of. One of the things you have to consider in bidding on lairs is the order in which they will be auctioned. For example, let's say you have settled upon four lairs that you want to bid upon--one in Dracul, one in Harro, one in Last Stand and one in Morning Light. And let's further assume that those lairs will be auctioned in that order. Now the lair you really, truly want most is the one in Last Stand, but you'll "settle" for one of the others. But the one in Last Stand will be auctioned third, so you have to consider what to do if you win one of the prior two first. Do you not bid on the Dracul and Harro lairs at all and hope they don't sell at auction (and thus become available for sale at Empire prices) and go all out for the Last Stand lair?

And how much should you bid on those four lairs, particularly if they are different dimensions? That 120x144x240 in Last Stand might certainly be worth bidding 3 or more gold on, but is the 96x96x120 lair on Dracul worth bidding that much for?

These are just some of the considerations that go into evolving a good auction bidding strategy. As you can see, it can get a bit complicated and requires a good knowledge of lair locations and dimensions long before you start bidding.

Though I am certainly mollified that the bidding process has been extended from seven to eleven days, I still believe that two to three weeks would be much better, particularly given the Thanksgiving holidays when many players will be away from the game.

[dorrin]

um... ok. except that i'm pretty sure all lairs will go up for auction at the same time.

[Tantalyr]

um... ok. except that i'm pretty sure all lairs will go up for auction at the same time.

Yes, they will, but assuming they will work like the biped plot auctions right after the merge, they will not be auctioned off simultaneously once the bidding closes. Instead, they will be auctioned off in a particular order over a period of time, likely two to three days at least.