Petition to rescind the Pawnbroker Nerf

[Goriax]

Besides which, it really screws up the lair auction. Probably too late to correct that although maybe it'll catch the farmers who were waiting until the last minute. Anyway, better late then never.

If you don't farm crap for cash and instead you've been making money as intended and scrimping and saving for a year; and if you plan to putall your savings from the last year on that nice waterfall lair plot, don't bother. Some farmer made enough last week to trump any bid you could make.

[PJ]

Of course nothing that dragons can craft are in that stackable category -- we make spells and scales (practical limit of 12 per pawn on each).

But you do have a rather large variety of items to choose from:

~130 types of spells per tier

and

42 types of scales per tier

[Pharcellus]

Money is currently meaningless in istaria except to buy stuff from NPCs (or initial plot purchases). I have tried to buy things only to be turned down because n oone wants cash. They (crafters normally) have no desire for my coin because they can make more coin easier by using this semi-exploit. Now that avenue is a little bit harder to take for a crafter. We'll see how much effect this will have. Personally I don't think it will do all that much, but who knows.

I haven't farmed the pawn broker in months.

In that time, I have gained less than 500sp in sales to players. I answer requests for making things everytime I see them.

When I offer to make something for people for coin, I often do not hear back from them, because someone else (not even in their own guild) has offerred to make it for free.

In the last two weeks, I have made nearly 2gp off of mobs, hunting for comps and techs.

I agree that the Pawn needs to be fixed, but ALONG WITH all the other changes that the game needs to stimulate an economy, including ITEM DECAY, MULTICLASS LIMITATIONS, etc.

With this change, crafters have no good source of coin. Pawn brokers will play out fast, and trying to figure out the buy low, sell high system between pawn brokers when no one is going to bother anymore will be far more time consuming than just hunting for a little bit, assuming that crafters CAN hunt. Pure crafters are COMPLETELY screwed.

[Pharcellus]

Adventuring provides infinite money.

Adventurers pay very little for anything crafters make, either because they have guildmates or close friends to make their stuff, or because they make it themselves, being high-level crafters. Not to mention the crafters who craft for free for anyone regardless.

So, with this change, it says "level adventurer if you want to make money".

[Skaolloaks]

If this move was about trying to encourage a more player-based economy, it has a major flaw that others have already mentioned in this thread.

I gave up on consignment sales a while back. When I first started the game, I tried making money by selling things I crafted through the consigners...nearly all of it ended up back in my vault.

If this was an attempt to make the economy more "realistic" then the ENTIRE economy needs to be re-worked, not just this one aspect. There is no real reason for players to keep buying the thingsother playerssell.Rather than crippling our ability to profit from the pawnbrokers, the developers could work on ways to make it more profitable for us to sell throughconsignment.

Some suggestions:

- Tools, armor & weapons could wear out and eventually break requiring the purchase of replacements or repair kits.

- Instead of relying solely on scribed spells,crafters could be giventhe ability to craft one-shot magical items that cast a single spell. This item, a scroll or baubleor rune or whatever, could be used by any player regardless of their magical ability and then evaporate.

-Require ammo for bows & crossbows. Crafters could make a boatload of copper assembling arrows& bolts in bulk.

I don't know if any of you had the sheer force of will to suffer through the novel Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. In one part of the, a character named Hank Reardon, who owns a multinational metal manufacturing conglomerate, imagines a world where everything would be made of his magical new metal alloy which is stronger than steel, lighter than aluminum and never ever deteriorates. Machines built of the metal would consume less fuel and never break down. Pots & pans made of the metal would be passed from one generation to the next. In Rand's, apparently limited, understandingof economics, such a situation would lead to a golden age of wealth & prosperity.

We now have that situation in Istaria. It's not exactly prosperous. Nothing ever needs to be repaired or replaced. Players who "outgrow" their arms & armor often simply pass their old sets down to newer players, free of charge. Sometimes, they even craft stuff for new players free of charge. (I admit, I'm guilty of this, too.)

This change hit me, and probably other newer players, especially hard. I've been looking forward to getting a lair almost since I started playing and did my best to earn coin in between my level advancement. Now that lairs have gone live, I find even the cheapest of lairsare stillwell beyond my grasp andmy best hope of quickly earning the money to purchase one has been taken away.

I can understand wanting to encourage players to build their own economy, but this was a pretty mean trick to pull on us newer players.

[Eni]

it was always that way. If you want the big money go hunt. If you want some money go pawn while leveling. Now it is go hunt or forget.

The small crafters are out now. No player buys the stuff and now not even a npc.

[Big`Gruff Beard]

If it is supply and demand.. Well I demand you supply me with coin from the pawn broker.. sorry bad joke.[:$]

All this talk and the only action to come from it will be a loss to the game,in player base.

Those of you who live in these forums when you are not living in Istaria can debate the issuesuntil Tulga turns out the lights.

But the players that don't post to the forumsdue tolack of time.. or an over- abundace of good sense[;)].. don't talk here.. they talk by playing the game.. and quietly go away when the game is no longer fun.

Maybe this needed changed?... Maybe it didn't.. [:^)]but my coin seems to buy the same things in the game the same way it did before.. or is Nadia going to lower her prices?... or is the WoW coin completing with the Istarian coin?

This is not fun.. this is poor business and worse customer service. Talk about playing a game all you want, but this is a business that is customer service oriented. You are suppose to build your business, supporting the customer. Not hen peckboth to death.

[Vlisson]

the pawn broker change makes sense to me to encourage and fix the player-player interaction and remove the "we are all too rich" issue

but a nerf is a nerf

i cant understand why it took such a long time for Tulga to react? they use always a hammer at our fingers. But they dont explain why they fix issue X.

its funny every time to see what Tulga/Gn can do without customers reaction. If you would buy a car and nothing of the features work after you sit in and no support... every court would assist you to get your right ^^

the communication is bad like 2 years ago :(

my conclusion to this nerf:
i think its ok and the economy needed this long time ago, but please make such changes not in such an unfriendly manner

[Cobal]

I hope they will increase the droprate of tech comps.
It will be a pain to buy stuff from nadia without being able to grind the money she wants in a day or two.
Tech comps dropping more often would help that.

[Valornyx]

have mixed feelings on this one - I levelled 90-100 of DCRA using gems andPBed a bit of that - so I cannot be unsympathetic to players who did not get this advantage..

On the other hand - I do not think that the situation as it is with worthless money is in the interests of the game.

As a dragon (the current lair auctions excepted) - there is almost nothing to spend money on for me except comps for my 6th and 7th set of scales - and then only if I'm too lazy to hunt for them because it is easy enough to get money.

To me it makes a great deal of sense from TGs perspective to bring this in now, as we are going to see a large amount of money dropped straight out of the economy with the auctions.

Things prices have inflated to silly levels or dropped to nothing because of the inflationary nature of the way the PBs were. The people hurt hardest by this were the new players. Whilst they are the ones who have not perhaps had the ability to use the PBs this way - they are the ones who will never compete in making coin with a L100 crafter using the same approach.

So, is this the right approach ?? - Well, I'm not sure. I think the levels seems abit low before the coin drops to zero - but the idea itself may help in the longer term.

For me - I will wait and see whether the longer term effects justify the action and whether they can try to save the economy. At the moment it is completely wonked!!

[Doombreak]

doesnt seem a good change to me..altho i have my plot and armor done now so i have no use for money anymore but the overpriced plots about 15g need something over than hunting for those ppl who like crafting betta to actually make money on..consigners aint going anywhere rele things sell for a few s if ppl are lucky. Pawns are also there for hunters who come back wil tons of stuff they havent got time to consign too. Ancient dragons have a good way of getting coin money which serves them well so they cann get enough money for the goin to be overexpensive lairs that will be active soon but then again aduylts and hatclings dont have this access to this. Imo the reason every1 has so much money is because of the overexpensive plots and the overpriced items ppl sell n thier market channel and such forth. I personally would not grind for money unless i had a goal in sight i.e a rare item or a plot

[magius]

while I think this is good, my friend hates it. this will kill off the crafters. until items decay and get destroyed, crafters have just got a raw deal. thanks TG for showing everyone how little you really care about you player base. I play rarely, but my friend plays alot. this will help him come over to WOW.


Thanks TG [;)]

[Foxfire]

Add my vote to the "Rescind" column.

As for the "infinite money" argument, as others have pointed out, so is adventuring.
I don't know a lot of people with a lot of money. Most people consider themselves well off with 10g or so, I rarely have more than 1 or 2 at any given time. Not enough to make even a single set of decent triple-teched jewelry at my level (if I was purely crafting), and that 1-2 takes me a while to get, whether I'm pawning T5 gems, adventuring, or whatever.

I don't see the benefit, I think the player-player interaction argument is pure bs, and the other folks supporting this are using the "I'm gonna ram my preferred style of playing down your throat" kind ofarguments.

I'm not sure why I'm so upset, as I only pawn for money maybe a couple days a month when I have a particular thing I want to buy. But my having fun meter was still cruising along at an 8 out of 10 or so, and it just fell to 2 when I saw this.

This change does NOT increase the fun factor for the vast majority of players, far as I can see. Fun is the commodity, not money, all you economic geniuses out there. I have not seen a cogent argument that links this change to increased fun. I'd at least like to know what the developers reasoning is on how this does that, so I can decide if maybe I'm the idiot, or if this is just a foolish pipedream of a move.

[Helcat]

I believe the change was needed, and long overdue.

[Helcat]

This change does NOT increase the fun factor for the vast majority of players, far as I can see.

Nerfing Boars Hide Masks in the last major update
did not increase the fun factor for adventurers.
(and that change was not even announced, but
rather "sneaked" into the patch...)
When a game mechanic is abused and "not working
as intended" the Devs will change it. That change
will invariably anger many. It's a tough balance to
maintain.

[AA0]

Anyone that is really complaining about this is just a horribly greedy or very dumb person, simple as that.

Take 2 minutes, shut your mouths and think about what is happening in the world.

1. PBs supply an infinite amount of money.

2. PBs supply so much money that not even the best and most powerful adventurers can hope to out earn a crafter who is at little to no risk. I spent the last 4 days in the yew, and rarely saw a treeant or oastic, if I was farming for cash I could have made a ton.

3. There is no money sink (except Nadia) to even out how much money we make.

4. Nadia was designed as a major moneysink and something you weren't supposed to think about going to unless you had no option, right now she is just a bother and you could make up the cash mindlessly pawning things.

5. The PB is meant to take up excess craft and adventure materials you can not sell. It is not meant to be a cash machine. In that terms anyone who uses it for major cash is using an exploit or broken game system.

6. If you sit back and take a minute to think, you can still make so much money, the problem is you all want to be semi-**************** robots. It is easy to make 200s off of just tools right now, spells you can make more... and thats just one pawnbroker. Tell me with what you spend that it still isn't enough?

7. Right now, an adventurer can ask in market for crafted materials and offer GOOD cash for those materials. They go unanswered often... why? Money has no meaning, the PB lets you farm so much cash and at such a faster rate than adventurers can make, it isn't worth your time to actually help someone, in that community spirit you are all bitching about. Bunch of hypocrites.

8. The PBs are not removed (they could have done that too). All you have to do is craft different items, and rotate those items between pawnbrokers. If you want to make cash, you are gonna have to look at the game while you craft.
Craft new items, bring them to new pawnbrokers, go to new fields and collect where others don't, be inventive and outthink, outsmart the other players. Stop being a machine with no brain. If you make and sell 20 of each spell form to the pb, how long can you craft spells and earn cash? Very long... same with weapons, tools, etc.

Instead of everyone just complaining constantly, why don't you actually TRY to figure something out, and see how you can do well in a system that makes more sense. Everyone got fat and lazy from a broken pawnbroker system, it was wrong and it had to change, a lot of things have to change, but you are all acting like you can't make money, the real case is you all don't want to make the effort to make money.

So learn to be smart, camp a pawnbroker that you know gets heavily used, buy the 2c priced objects and haul them down the road to a new pawnbroker. Use the 300 forms you have to make different objects.
If you think porting is a major slowdown for the game, turn your loading screen off. The memory leak from porting is very small now, and most people are running for hours and hours without having to relog. If you can't then you probably have something set up wrong. Stop using excuses and do something other than complaining. Every complaint I've seen is that people keep trying to pawn the same crap at the same pb over and over, give it an honest shot then come back.

[Kephren]

I'm a Dragon with one char and a biped crafter with the other. I like this change. It's a step towards a more realistic, healthy economy. It just didn't make sense that they PBs had infinite money for infinite items.

[TheRock]

Once again they introduced something new to make people quit....I truly believe they want us all to quit or just have a selected amout of preferred people playing this game.
I am assuming that most of the people agreeing with this change to the PB have everything and now want new or lower level players to work harder to get what they have accomplished.
The same old question still stands; Why not fix the old issues that we all have begged for, for so long?
For my main issue is the lag in the game....if you cannot fix it then say so and I for one will quit! I am tired of going around in a maze when a few mobs attack me. And forget lowering the graphics to play...have to be fairly low to be tolerable in battle.
I wonder what is broken when I log in again :(
Sad times again i guess :(

[Helcat]

Once again they introduced something new to make people quit....I truly believe they want us all to quit or just have a selected amout of preferred people playing this game.

Horizons is not merely someone's hobby; it's a business.
Now think again about what you just posted.

[Foxfire]

Anyone that is really complaining about this is just a horribly greedy or very dumb person, simple as that.

Not at all greedy, genius IQ, and really complaining about it.

None of your arguments or approaches sound like more fun to me than what was.

To AAO's points:
1. Adventuring supplies an infinite amount of money.

2. Depends on what you hunt or what you craft, disagree with the assertion.

3. If there is no money sink, why do most people have very little money?

4. Provide an alternate method to Nadia please.

5. You say the PB was not meant to be (one of the many) in game cash machines. Who declared that to be truth?

6. Have you tried to make 200s off of tools right now? And it's ok to do at once, but not more than once? So you're saying its ok to have infinite on the PB's still, but lets just slow the rate down so that the feeling of accomplishment / joy of receiving pay for work goes away more quickly?

7. Low player base is the problem here, not the economic system.

8. Rotating items is just an "exploit" by your original reasoning. You're finding a clever way to turn the PB back into the "cash machine" you were trying to shut down in your earlier argument. And it's clearly less fun.

I don't complain constantly, hardly at all. You're just getting that impression from the way you're reading these boards. And why on earth would I WANT to port all over tarnation to sell goods?? Is there some fun in that?

Think you're totally off on the wrong side of this argument with regard to what most people expect out of a game.