This is crazy...

[Goriax]

I dont think it is u.u But it sounds like barney and friends here think thataZombieNPC is crazy stuff!

Kind of gives you an idea what to expect from so-called PvP fans. If he's like this here on the boards where all he has is words, imagine what he'd be like in a PvP game with bugs and exploits.

So go on Dashing Rouge, you're turning into the best argument against PvP in this thread.

[Dashing Rouge]

wow :) you all jumped on that fast but said NOTHING about some one repeating them self to me like im stupid, nothing about PVP fans being the dregs ofsociety or even thought that some one correcting my spelling was a poke :P But i say your all happy people and you JUMP on it real fast. Why did you not jump on them? I think its that there saying mean things to some one you dont like and dont like what he is saying! So other then thinking about it you are just happy some one is poking fun!

Why dont you try and come up with how PVP could help or how it could be done so it would work. But you will not, you will sit there and say some thing mean or sarcastic and not even try to see a new idea or make your game better :( All i see are mean people who dont want to hear any thing from any one but what they have put done them self... ALL i want is to steal a few silver from a dwarf and pass roses out to young ladies. The pvp would be a great add on, but might not be right HZ ... i even said that! that i was not sure PVP was the right way to go. Im trying to come up with things I LIKE and put them in a game with PEOPLE i like! Thats what you DO to make games better! you take people who love some thing and let them try to add ideas!

go on :) attack! your simple words can do nothing to my Armor of Godly-Ego VI!

[Dashing Rouge]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Dashing Rouge wrote:

But it sounds like barney and friends here think thataZombieNPC is crazy stuff!
Be advised that insults such as that aren't taken well. And this is the EXACT kind of talk and reaction that makes every single one of us here who are against PvP against it. As much as you SAY you're all about tactics and excitement and fun, you've JUST PROVEN you're no different than the PvP griefers who toss snide remarks and insults when they have no argument to debate.

Is it any wonder that we don't want that kind of crap in our game?? Can't make a comment without insults, don't make them at all.

I have been debating with you for a few days now and have talked about many ideas that could help, i said that i was not sure if PVP was right for the game, i have said ideas that might work ... you just want to step in now and go HA HA HA! LOOK LOOK every one! He called us Friends of Barney! Come on...

[Dashing Rouge]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Dashing Rouge wrote:

I dont think it is u.u But it sounds like barney and friends here think thataZombieNPC is crazy stuff!
Kind of gives you an idea what to expect from so-called PvP fans. If he's like this here on the boards where all he has is words, imagine what he'd be like in a PvP game with bugs and exploits.

So go on Dashing Rouge, you're turning into the best argument against PvP in this thread.

Again, i have come up with many ideas, many ideas to work it. Why did you not tell some one to stop poking fun at me? Not call pvp fans names? You did not... You wanted to see some one with there ideas made fun of , you smiled and liked it andthought YA you go!

I have been told here that i think inside the box to... that's just fine but im not seeing you come up with how pvp could work or what it would add... Do you not want to? Or can you not? I dont know... what ever is ok by me but i thought this was talking about ideas and how why they would work or not

[Dashing Rouge]

In truth im thinking that the tag idea would work great! I dont want to see every one put in to PVP... i think that would make the game not so fun for some people and those who like the crafting and what quests there are would not like it at all

But if there was little cities out side of the main ones that could be taken and lost and was often! and if we are able to play on the side of Blight! AND if i could put my tag up or down as i like (maybe at the start of my character, got to think about that) I think you would have PVP for those who like and dont like and a real war not just some story off to the side that we worry about now and then!

Bipeds could get Dragon skulls to sell if they wanted money and Dragons could get some hoard value when they make kills. This would be very smallamounts of money JUST to pay for the fight, not some thing to make a living off of.I dont think there should be any DP given out if you are killed in PVP, nothing should be lost at all! It should be a side note that is some thing to take away from the grind of crafting and Xping.

Who cares if its not MADE for pvp, if i want to try my school vs yours and dont win... So what! i have not lost a darn thing! And you have not to! Now try and tell me why this would not work and what it would do that would be SO bad to HZ? I cant see how putting up your tag (Asking to be killed by a level 100 dragon [:P]) can hurt the inner workings of the game! just as long as you dont gain that much cash or hoard from it! NPCing/crafting should bring in WAY more then PVPing... now Bounty hunting on the other hand ;) But lets not get in to that :P

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

The reason is because the DREGS of society are drawn to PvP, and ruin it for anyone who would consider a fair fight before a slaughter of a half dead newbie...

Where in this statement does it say that PvP fans are the dregs of society. Two totally different things and I agree with Kumu's assessment, I don't agree with your word twist however.

Yup, Goriax did repeat himself. I'm not saying it couldn't be handled better but you are pushing hard for something that's just NEVER going to happen and you seem insistant on not letting that sink into your head. I'm not going to play mommy to everyone who gets smart, that's not exactly my job. Even now you are still insisting on people who don't want PvP, in a non-PvP game (and it has been pointed out numerous times that it is never going to happen in this version of HZ) to help you come up with ideas on how to put it in. We don't want it in. It doesn't fit in. The Devs have told us it's not going in. Why should we come up with ways of doing so?

Kumu pointing out your misspelling was hardly an insult. He also wasn't the one poking fun, cattoy was. He merely pointed that out to you (which you didn't get/catch on) then showed you the difference. /shrug I don't exactly see that as being insulting. If I had misspelled my name (and it IS a common misspelling and I do it from time to time as well since I get my letters inverted from typing too fast sometimes) I would fully expect to get a poke now and again also. But I wouldn't see it as an insult unless the person had already gunned for me repeatedly before.

"Barney and friends" was FAR from saying we are happy people and I'm sure you know that even though you are trying to play it off as if it wasn't meant the way it was said. It is a statement used in the same context as "Carebears" which is also ill recieved. Both are used when someone advocating PvP has run out of debating argument, can't think of anything else to say, so resorts to the lowest denominator of retaliation; insults and snide remarks. These two things are the ONLY time you will see me call someone out because there is no place for that sort of stuff here. Heck, if it had come from a long standing poster, you'd began making comments like this from the start, or made it a habit to retaliate in this manner, it would have been followed up with a post report as well. I don't like reporting people though unless it's gotten/is getting nasty and since that, IMO, is the first infringement of kind, I see this thread still having some merit in continuing the debate without any further issue.

Im trying to come up with things I LIKE and put them in a game with PEOPLE i like! Thats what you DO to make games better! you take people who love some thing and let them try to add ideas!

That's the best thing you've said throughout this thread. And while your previous ideas in your OP bear the tell tell signs of this quote in mind, that post did not. It is admirable that you have these ideas and are trying to come up with ways to integrate them into the game, but unfortunately even your ideas of integration are falling short of the mark. If an idea can't go in without severe detriment to the entire game and populace then it's really not much of an idea to take the time to concider. I mean come on, you wanted to get rid of ALL the portals except 2 in the world to accomodate Rogues and caravans. Now to me, THAT is crazy.

I would HAPPILY listen to and advocate suggestions for changes and additions in HZ that fit into the world of Istaria without detriment to the entire populace. I see PvP and your accomodations for Rogue as that. No, I'm not going to attempt to help you come up with ways to include PvP because I don't want it, end of story. I would LOVE to come up with ways to integrate Rogues (would actually prefer to see other schools added first though to be honest) but having some knowledge of the current plate the Devs are eating from (Dev Preview which is in DIRE need of an update as well), I can't see them fitting in an entirely new class atm just to facilitate people being able to steal from one another. /shrug Stealing coin is not what HZ is about.

Of course it is possible that HZ may not be the right game for you down the road if these two things are so important to you that you find you can't enjoy yourself without them. That's fine too, but insisting we help you come up with ways to accomodate your wants when we obviously have no interest or don't see the game mechanics supporting it atm, and then insulting us for not doing so is not only unnecessary and unwarranted, but unfair. No-one here has insulted you for having your view and suggesting your desire, merely pointed out what they feel is wrong with it, why it shouldn't/wouldn't be concidered, and stated their own feelings on what they feel needs more attention. Yes, someone got smart. Yes, someone poked fun, but they didn't outright call you belittling names. You're remark was meant as such because it is used as such. No amount of justification is going to change that.

I'd also like you to show me where exactly I have been "mean" to you or for that matter, where most posters in this thread have been. ;)

[Bori Grimbattle]

Let me just ignore the PvP aspect and dwell on the Thief in general. For one thing the allied races and the Aegis lack one thing which makes a Thief a viable character. Doors! Doors and the ability to lock them! Even your House or Guildhouse are lacking doors and only those given access can get into the er so called "Chest" in those buildings.

Until we have the ability to manipulate world objects such as doors, switches, levers and locks, Thieves would be a waste of a character slot.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Let me just ignore the PvP aspect and dwell on the Thief in general. For one thing the allied races and the Aegis lack one thing which makes a Thief a viable character. Doors! Doors and the ability to lock them! Even your House or Guildhouse are lacking doors and only those given access can get into the er so called "Chest" in those buildings.

Until we have the ability to manipulate world objects such as doors, switches, levers and locks, Thieves would be a waste of a character slot.

Exactly! But there is one other thing that prevents Thief schools from being viable.

Positioning.

Without the game recognizing positioning, a thief cannot use it to their advantage and backstab, attempt a knockout (maybe it would knock the mob down and stun them for a few seconds?) with a billy club/sap, or sneak up behind a mob to perform such. Mobs "see" you whether you are behind, in front, to the side of them regardless.

It would take a HUGE amount of coding to get either/both of these aspects working for Rogues to be integrated into HZ and again, I don't see TG wanting to spend that much time on accomodations for the addition of a single school, especially now.

[Jardel]

Why dont you try and come up with how PVP could help or how it could be done so it would work.

Possibly because they don't want PVP (you may have noticed this), so it's rather like asking why do you think of reasons not to have PVP?

But you will not, you will sit there and say some thing mean or sarcastic and not even try to see a new idea or make your game better

I'm sorry to inform you of this, but your "new idea" dates back to even before monochrome MUDs. So refering to it as a new idea isn't really going to get you anywhere.

All i see are mean people who dont want to hear any thing from any one but what they have put done them self... ALL i want is to steal a few silver from a dwarf

Don't suppose it's occured to you the dwarf doesn't want his silver stolen?

The pvp would be a great add on, but might not be right HZ ... i even said that! that i was not sure PVP was the right way to go. Im trying to come up with things I LIKE and put them in a game with PEOPLE i like! Thats what you DO to make games better! you take people who love some thing and let them try to add ideas!

Well then, may I propose that if you are the man with all the answers you found your own game company and start your own PVP MMORPG?

[Guaran]

The PVP in the arena was fun and harmless. Nothing gained by it. Nothing lost either, (except you do get a DP). We had team vs team, player vs player. Everyone was adult and fair, and the fights were fun, exciting, and even a little scary compared to fighting a NPC mob. First few times SoG scared me to death. :)

There really is a little something extra when you know the other character has a brain, some tactics, and a real chance at getting you.

Obviously the game can never support wide open pvp because classes are different and not necessarily balanced with a PVP option in mind.

But that doesn't mean it isn't fun to pvp anyway, when both people opt in to the arena teams. You can goto the arena run around observe the fights and never even worry about getting killed. You have to join a team by talking to an NPC and paying a fee. That sets the flag to A or B team. Then you may pvp only the opposing team. Once you die the flag fades, and can't be ressed by either team. Observers not joined to a team cannot heal either team's members. Once you join a team only they can buff or heal you, there's no outside interference.

While the pvp arena may not be fun for everyone, I see no reason they don't put it on the live shards.

Horizons 2 is speculated to be designed with pvp in mind this game wasn't. But the arena does provide fun, would be nice for them to activate it.

[Tarran of Chaos]

I only support thieves being playable if their theft raises a combat flag allowing you to attack them, and once you do attack them, you are flagged to them as well.
As far as open pvp war in HZ, it would be a fiasco no matter how implemented other than consentual arena, although Soth had a good idea about a dueling for an area option that would allow 2 groups to choose a champion from each to duel each other for an area, with the losers group auto-recalling. I say consentual combat should be allowed anywhere, not just an arena. Also, it is my opinion that death points should be taken out for pvp. For those who enjoy pvp, its all they wanna do. Since they have it, you should be able to hang out pvping all day every day without plummeting your character into dp hell.

[belezar]

I think a PvP arena would be a fine idea.

Open server wide PvP is an invitation to griefers.

Specific zones for PvP battle isok by me so long as nothing special drops in there that would require non PvP players having a requirement to go in there.

I've played PvP on DAoC and Neverwinter Nights, it does attract a griefer element. My level 12 monk running around trying to escape a 25-28 character is not really fun and just stupid really [8-)]

As far as thieves (stealing) goes. I would implement jails / goals and "a thief better than you principle".

So you wanna be a thief? Well if you get caught it's 4 weeks (or some other figure depending on what was stolen and you could have a record which increases the duration for repeat offenders)real life time in a virtualjail, you could even hav visitors and paroleLOL(all other characters on that account suspened until your jail term expires).

If you steal excessive amounts "the thief better than you rule" search your playercharacter for items used/equipped most often. System randomlyremoves a certain amount from the top 20-40 items and consigns it with a buy back penalty for you and you go to jail as well. (NOTE: Excessive amounts would have to be defined)
E.g. Sword of Death their price 100s your price 1500s
and Shield of Fortitude their price 150s your price 2250s

Checks and balances is the only thing that would make open PvP and stealing work.

My honest opinion server wide PvP'er and thief (stealing)wanna be's have lots of choice in the MMORPG world for PvP play. I think that (and I may well be wrong) some people who can't make it in the world where the PvP is rough and tumble, so they come to a population where people havepurposefully chosen a non PvP environment to slaughter / prey onpeople who do not like this style of play.

My suggestion if you really enjoy PvP is try Guild Wars, Diablo, Dark Age of Camelot, ShadowBane, Neverwinter Nights, EQ, FPS like Quake, Doom etc... Lots and lots of choice out there for PvP action. When I play Horizons I don't want the hassle of being ganked while Im harvesting some resources or my hit points are down half way throug a fight etc... add your own annoying scenario.

[Raeshlavik]

I guess that first of all I should point out that I'm 'old'... The "back in my day we use to carve CPUs out of wood" kind of old, and I've played just about every MMO out there at this point. This includes the "hardcore" PvP games such as Ultima Online, EverQuest (PvP Server), Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, World of Warcraft, etc. and I'm also quite good at PvP. Some examples?

My main in Shadowbane, a human confessor named "Malius", created an empire from the money I made as a mercenary thatguilds would hire to win territory for them. (note I didn't say 'Ireki assassin/mage')

My main in WoW, a Forsaken Priest named "Pane"from Darkspear, became so well known by the Alliance that they'd form "Pane Hunting Parties" whenever I was spotted in a zone and I'd be forced to kill between 4 and 6 players simultaneously. (note I didn't say 'Forsaken rogue')

So what I have to say isn't from the point of view of either a non-PvP or bad-PvP player...

A) You cannot "add" PvP to a game that wasn't designed for it.

The combat system has to be designed from the ground up to faciltate player controlled combat: It's faster, requires tight positional updates between clients, lag sensitive, and is really - really - hard to balance. You can have your choice of 'Dynamic world and playing experience' or 'PvP', but not both. (as Blizzard is finding out)

B) A rogue class cannot be balanced for PvP as it's all about the player's skill and mindset...

You get lousy players and the class becomes god-like for a few good players. Get really good players and an average player gets thierglutes on a plate every combat.

C) Rogues exist so that a given game will appeal to a specific demographic:

The narcissistic loaner twitch FPSer who could give a rat's patootie about nerdy things such as 'backstory', 'role playing', or 'quests'... For them it's all about DPS, stats, clever hot keys to shave that .01 seconds off a special attack, and feeling superior becausethey can kill anyone who is engaged in exploring that 'backstory', 'role playing', or 'questing'.

D) Stealth is golden and no skill/weapon/spell combination will ever equate to the simple fact of a rogue getting the ultimate choice of when and where. It's this choice that makes the rogue class the ultimate griefing tool in a PvP based MMO...
An example: A player is just about to kill the named MOB it needs for a quest, a MOB that spawns rarely and in random locations to make the quest difficult. But before they can finish it off and get the trigger for the quest, a rogue comes out of nowhere when they are already damaged, busy, and no threat,and kills them. This sets the questing player back -hours- usually to give the rogue player 30 seconds of 'fun'.

The effects of all of this aresome of the reasons I no longer play WoW... After becoming a 'bragging right' target on Darkspear and not being able to set foot outside of Horde lands without being attacked, I started over on 'Twisting Nether'... One month after the server started 24% of the population was rogue (48% of the rogues were Forsaken)... So roughly one in four of the 6000 players on that server were liable to screw up your game experience, at any time,in the name of their own fun.

Yeah. I wanna play there...

Anyways, I could be wrong on all of this, but I also study MMOs objectively and this is what I've found to be true. YMMV.

[belezar]

I guess that first of all I should point out that I'm 'old'... The "back in my day we use to carve CPUs out of wood" kind of old, and I've played just about every MMO out there at this point. This includes the "hardcore" PvP games such as Ultima Online, EverQuest (PvP Server), Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, World of Warcraft, etc. and I'm also quite good at PvP. Some examples?

My main in Shadowbane, a human confessor named "Malius", created an empire from the money I made as a mercenary thatguilds would hire to win territory for them. (note I didn't say 'Ireki assassin/mage')

My main in WoW, a Forsaken Priest named "Pane"from Darkspear, became so well known by the Alliance that they'd form "Pane Hunting Parties" whenever I was spotted in a zone and I'd be forced to kill between 4 and 6 players simultaneously. (note I didn't say 'Forsaken rogue')

So what I have to say isn't from the point of view of either a non-PvP or bad-PvP player...

A) You cannot "add" PvP to a game that wasn't designed for it.

The combat system has to be designed from the ground up to faciltate player controlled combat: It's faster, requires tight positional updates between clients, lag sensitive, and is really - really - hard to balance. You can have your choice of 'Dynamic world and playing experience' or 'PvP', but not both. (as Blizzard is finding out)

B) A rogue class cannot be balanced for PvP as it's all about the player's skill and mindset...

You get lousy players and the class becomes god-like for a few good players. Get really good players and an average player gets thierglutes on a plate every combat.

C) Rogues exist so that a given game will appeal to a specific demographic:

The narcissistic loaner twitch FPSer who could give a rat's patootie about nerdy things such as 'backstory', 'role playing', or 'quests'... For them it's all about DPS, stats, clever hot keys to shave that .01 seconds off a special attack, and feeling superior becausethey can kill anyone who is engaged in exploring that 'backstory', 'role playing', or 'questing'.

D) Stealth is golden and no skill/weapon/spell combination will ever equate to the simple fact of a rogue getting the ultimate choice of when and where. It's this choice that makes the rogue class the ultimate griefing tool in a PvP based MMO...
An example: A player is just about to kill the named MOB it needs for a quest, a MOB that spawns rarely and in random locations to make the quest difficult. But before they can finish it off and get the trigger for the quest, a rogue comes out of nowhere when they are already damaged, busy, and no threat,and kills them. This sets the questing player back -hours- usually to give the rogue player 30 seconds of 'fun'.

The effects of all of this aresome of the reasons I no longer play WoW... After becoming a 'bragging right' target on Darkspear and not being able to set foot outside of Horde lands without being attacked, I started over on 'Twisting Nether'... One month after the server started 24% of the population was rogue (48% of the rogues were Forsaken)... So roughly one in four of the 6000 players on that server were liable to screw up your game experience, at any time,in the name of their own fun.

Yeah. I wanna play there...

Anyways, I could be wrong on all of this, but I also study MMOs objectively and this is what I've found to be true. YMMV.

Nice post. I play PvP and enjoy it, not as good as your description but I can hold my own.

In DAoC people started using RADAR as an exploit, I mean come on.

ROFLMAO your sig is a classic [:D] What language was it? Errors from missing libraries?

[Raeshlavik]

Nice post. I play PvP and enjoy it, not as good as your description but I can hold my own.

In DAoC people started using RADAR as an exploit, I mean come on.

ROFLMAO your sig is a classic [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-2.gif[/img] What language was it? Errors from missing libraries?

Thanks. I have to admit that I'm probably not 'all that' when it comes to professional level PvP, but I do pretty well, have a lot of experience (I certainly dont get'jittery' any moreduring a fight after years of it),and I've built quite the gaming machine to make up for anything I might be missing. SoI guess I have to hand some credit over to my gear.

You know what they say; "Old age and trechery (technology) will win out over youth and enthusiasm every time". [:D]

The DAoC hacks were funny... I mean, c'mon, it's not like this is a one vs one test of skill... You have to take out everyone in the tower, plus all the NPC guards, and then hold it for a while... The enemy *will* come to you. I remeber when archers were the most feared thing in the realms because they'done-shotyou while sitting from inside a tree at range.

City of Villains PvP is probably the best done in my opinion. Battles are protracted and take quite a while, even one-on-one, so you have to decide that you really want to attack this person. It's also very easy to run away if you're in the middle of a quest or something. They also have a nice feature wherein when you go to a PvP area, for example a level 25 area, everyone below 25 temporarily gets raised to 25 while everyone over that gets dropped to 25. It tends to even the playing field, though players over 25 do retain some advantages such as better gear as a carrot for the lower folks to keep levelling.

The sig is just a joke making fun of the VisualStudio compiler and its... umm... less than informative errors.

[safaia]

Dear Dashing Rogue

Coming up with ideas to improve HZ is a good thing. Even looking at other games to get ideas from there is fine, most new games have been crated exactly like this.
But I think it is not a good idea to maxe HZ like all the other games.
The reason is simple: There are people who don't like PvP. There are so few games to make THEM happy, but there are plenty of famous games to make PvP fans happy.
Horizonshas afar more relaxed gameplay than any PvP game I know. I would rather leave Horizons than let me grow eyes on my back because of adding PvP. I think a lot of HZ players see it like this.

One final argument against PvP is a technical reason: You see other players actions up to 2 seconds later than those players started the action. The servers are not able to handle real time acting. But that would absolutely neccessary for PvP. The whole code has to be reprogrammed if they try to add PvP. It would be easier to make a whole new game from the scratch than improving the existing code.

A new Rogue class could be added more easily. The developers have to think what that new class should add to HZ that no other class could do. Let's make a list:
+ disarming traps
+ hiding
+ backstabing attacks
+ lock-picking
+ pick-pocketing
+ stealing items/money in generalfrom players, mobs, houses

If we ever get traps, it would suit the ranger class to disarm them too.
Hiding would be cool. On the other hand HZ looks empty enough without tons of players who use the cool new feature of hiding ;)
Backstabing would be fine and a nice starting attack I think. Should require hiding first.
We don't have doors or chests that could be picked. If we get them it would be a nice feature. I can think of mobs that drop a chest when killed instead of a dead body. In order to get the loot from it you must pick the lock or break the chest open (what should break some oth the poot too, to make the lock-picking themore profitableopportunity)
pick-pocketing and stealing in general would open a huge door for 'quick and fast money without risk' people. that would be the opposit of what the developers do currently. Geting money must be a time-consuming or a risky thing. stealing seems to be too easy.

[Jayne]

Yes this has been discussed in the past. Those that participated in the arena liked it alot, those that don't like PvP simply didn't go. I believe it will end up on live shards eventually.

And yes Tarran I have already brought up the fact several times that if we truly don't want PvP to interupt game play in Istaria the DP's need to be removed. It should simply be a place where we can go away from our Istarian lives and have fun combating one another. Thus when we leave we should be as we were when we left.

Currently the arena is pretty dead. I simply don't go to offen unless some says hey lets go. Mainly because Blight is so dead.

Jayne

[Vignar]

I REALLY don't want to see exclusion become the norm in HZ because someone doesn't fit the bill of what is missing in a group.

No one seems to want Xbowmen or Monks in their group. There are cases for the contrary, but generally, when do you join a group to kill the Uber bosses and see a Xbow or Monk?

Horizons is not PvP.

Horizons will never be PvP.

What about the Arena? Almost made it live, and is still on Blight.

As I would like to see Thiefs, Assassins, Rogues in the HZ, others have already stated there realy is no use for them right now. With so much back-log of things to fix and do, the outlook for a use is fairly grim.

I like your idea of caravans. Even if the WA have caravans with super strong guards to move supplies from say, the castle is the back of ED to the outpost of the front lines of the Frontier. Sacking the caravans would be great fun and great reward.

[Corah]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Snowdonia Honeythorn wrote: I REALLY don't want to see exclusion become the norm in HZ because someone doesn't fit the bill of what is missing in a group.


No one seems to want Xbowmen or Monks in their group. There are cases for the contrary, but generally, when do you join a group to kill the Uber bosses and see a Xbow or Monk?

I may be an exception but I am a Storm Disciple and have not seen this as an issue. I feel welcome in any group I've been in and can't remember being denied a group if I asked. That may be more reputation (which I'm not sure if mines great or not) than anything but who knows.


Great comments from pretty much everyone on this thread. I don't haveanything more to comment on besides my Monk observation, because everything was already covered with Mr. Rouge.

[imported_tjl]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Snowdonia Honeythorn wrote: I REALLY don't want to see exclusion become the norm in HZ because someone doesn't fit the bill of what is missing in a group.


No one seems to want Xbowmen or Monks in their group. There are cases for the contrary, but generally, when do you join a group to kill the Uber bosses and see a Xbow or Monk?

they may be a rarity in groups because they are a rarity in the population (becuause they need so much work). I have grouped with a crossbowman once, back during the feledan event. once.