Lair Plans: I'll show you mine if you show me yours! Or... How do I do this?!

[Theolaerynn]

Can we actually bind to the Halls, or do we need to build an actual Shrine?

And while we are on it, why in the world does a Shrine have such small occupancy space but take up room on two floors?

[Death-knell]

halls are suppose to be bindable

[Talitha]

I guess I have a very nice 0 layer, since I managed to fit a whole spread of T1 machines and a lair on that floor. It's not a very deep or creative lair right now, I know... ^_^; but it's really only temporary rubble for me to dig at for leveling. I'll make it better later on. And machines are really handy for the neighbors, especially when your house is right underneath a resource field.

My stoneworking chamber shall be open to the public as soon as it's built. ^_^

[imported_Rhyssa]

Well I heard there were a few new spirals coming, one of which had a 90 degree out instead of 180. That will definitely lead to a redesign!

Also, Devs could we get some up-spirals? Why an up-spiral you say? Because the best I can do with a 90 degree down spiral is to start my grand hall on level 1, the second door would be freed up and I would use it to put a spiral up to level 0. I want my guest directly into the grand hall and since I would be bounded to the grand hall the doors should go to the rest of my lair.

This would be an excellent idea, or make multi-level rooms, spirals and ramps also rotate their connection point to the bottom level as well, thus pushing the top level up to the next floor. I tried a design with a 3 level hall coming off a spiral, which then left all of one side of that level inaccessible. I went down to the next level thinking maybe I could add another multi level and have the top come in on the other side of the level above, but the connection points won't rotate to the bottom level.

[Dragoniade]

Well, my lair planning has kind of halted since I run unto a bug that render the planning window unusable.

I could add a room to the lair, but while it would be added to the 'under construction list', it would still remain in the planning list. Clicking more and more would put more room into the 'under construction, list, but would still not make them appears.

I then deleted a structure that was connected to it and logged out. WHen I got back, I had 2 rooms under construction at the same spot, but disconnected to any other structure.

So I cannot create any structure because the planning window detect a disconnected room (those 2) and I cannot delete those 2 rooms because they would create a disconnection (they are already disconnected).

Nice loop bug that render my lair useless.




See the 2 unbuilts room? There's only one showing up in the window. So they're both over each other.

[Dragonboy]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that arose while reading the to threads below.

Lair Chamber Functions :
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=108469
Lair Pieces :
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=109504

It came to my attention that a T1 silo will probably have a capacity of 20k bulk and T2 will have 32k bulk.
AT1 silo takes 1 block 24*24*24.
A T2 silo takes2 blocks24*24*48.

Isnt it more logical to place2 T1 silo's (20k+20k=40k) instead of the T2 silo (32k)

And if yes why even bother with the higher tier Silo's?

[Valornyx]

Isnt it more logical to place2 T1 silo's (20k+20k=40k) instead of the T2 silo (32k)

In short, Yes.

I asked this same question and someone (sorry I forget who now and cannot be bothered going through all the old threads) pointed out that you may wish to use a T2 if you do not have anything on the level beneath it anyway and it would otherwise be dead space.

I think for my part, I will have a swag of T1s -It allows for more flexibility of storage anyway.

[Dragoniade]

Maybe some of you can help me with a question that arose while reading the to threads below.

Lair Chamber Functions :
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=108469
Lair Pieces :
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=109504

It came to my attention that a T1 silo will probably have a capacity of 20k bulk and T2 will have 32k bulk.
AT1 silo takes 1 block 24*24*24.
A T2 silo takes2 blocks24*24*48.

Isnt it more logical to place2 T1 silo's (20k+20k=40k) instead of the T2 silo (32k)

And if yes why even bother with the higher tier Silo's?

Yeah. It hsa been mentionned and depated in another thread.
A Tier 6 lair silo is 9 time less effective than a plot silo. That a lot for no real reason than make dragon 'different'. I don't mind different, but 9 times less stuff is ridiculous.

To be fair, they should ahve made silo following the same formula.
Tier 1 would take 2 square and have 1 entry point.
Tier 2 would take 1 square and have 1 entry point
Tier 3 would take 2 square and have 2 entry point.
Tier 4 would take 1 square and have 2 entry point
Tier 5 would take 2 square and have 3 entry point
Tier 6 would take 1 square and have 3 entry point

Or something in that line. There's no reason to have Lair Silo to be 2 to 9 time lesser than plot silo

[Dragonboy]

There's no reason to have Lair Silo to be 2 to 9 time lesser than plot silo

[sarcasm on]But we can fly you know...[sarcasm off]

[Goriax]

I finally finished planning my plot. While most of my silos were tier 1, I used up through tier 4. Higher tier silos are handy when you have a few cubes you want to devote to storage but have no place for access tunnels. It would be nice if they also had some higher tier ones with side entrances but oh well. I managed.

In my very ordinary plot I placed 5 tier 2 crafting chambers, 4 tier 4 and 1 tier 5 crafting chamber (farther down to replace the tier 2 chambers which would be deconstructed and something else put there later and yes my layout will allow that)along with a tier 2 lair, a tier 5 lair, a tier 2 hall, and a tier 5 hall. I could have had all tier 5 crafting chambers but decided it wasn't worth it. Also had a couple consigners, no pawn brokers (why?), a couple libraries, and a vault. I can't remember how many silos but I was stashing them wherever I could fit one including a couple silo farms. I ended up with a tier 3 silo farm on the bottom couple levels when I couldn't think of anything else to put there. I could have had tier 6 stuff but tier 6 seems like more workthen I feel like tackling.

I seem to recall that a hall corresponds to a guildhall, so I had room for a tier 2 and a tier 5 guild hall plus all that other stuff. With room to spare.Lots of room to spare. In fact I was running out of ideas of stuffI considered worth the effort of buildingwhich is why I ended up with that high tier silo farm (actually my second silo farm since I had one on level 1 too as well as silos sprinkled throughout). Perhaps when I get down that far I'll make it a low tier silo farm instead. Whatever.

Ok, the silos are done differently from the biped equivalent and if the only thing you want to put on your plot is silos (excuse me, storage areas)thenyou won't do as well as a dragon then as a rich biped.But I was able to put a lot of stuff in my standard sized personal plot (not a guild plot) including a tier 5 guildhouse which didn't come close to dominating the entier plot. I could have had two tier 5 guildhouses (oneHelian, one Lunus)if I'd wanted. In fact I ran out of things I wanted to put on my plot before I ran out of space on which to put it.

We're not exactly hurting.

[dorrin]

I guess I have a very nice 0 layer, since I managed to fit a whole spread of T1 machines and a lair on that floor.

just a suggestion... if you have other t1 stuff on your 0 layer that can level you up and if you have some good lairshaping scales, you might want to make those t1 machines t2 instead, because they take up the same exact amount of space. yes, they take a lot more work, but IMO are worth it.

[Illi]

I have to agree with dorrin here. The problem with T1 machine rooms is that they have one access point, so the lvl won't flow at all, those rooms have to be the ending of the corridor, that would have limited me too much to live with. I went with all T2 machines in my lair, although due to the shaping of some of them, they're not all on lvl 0, 3 of them are lvl 1. They are more work, but they have 2 access points and it makes the corridors flow nicely without having to stop at the machine room.

[Talitha]

just a suggestion... if you have other t1 stuff on your 0 layer that can level you up and if you have some good lairshaping scales, you might want to make those t1 machines t2 instead, because they take up the same exact amount of space. yes, they take a lot more work, but IMO are worth it.

I consider my current lair a work in progress, though; this first layout is set with the consideration that I may or may not level up to T2 lairshaping while working on these first few corridors and chambers. If I do...great! I'll happilyredesign. Just more exp, tearing stuff out and building/applying more. I don't anticipate putting in my "final" lair design until I'm sure I can build the thing. So at the moment, layer 0 is my practice layer. ^_^; I hope my little plan works...

Thanks for the advice!

[imported_Frith-Rae]

I see Dragonaide I believe ran into a bug... (urks)

I'll ask here, has anyone else run into the initial bug of after you open up the planning window and click on the "+" button, the window that pops up to display your chamber options just sits there blank?

I've run into this a few times, but usually if I close the window, and sit there fo ra few minutes, trying a few more times eventually the chambers/options load and I can build from there. And never again does it fail to load.

But is anyone else having this issue? My mate had the same issue last night, but it never loaded for him even after trying various things for half an hour, until he gave up in frustration. For me its only taken 5-10 minutes maybe.

But just wondering if anyone else has this loading issue? Anyone figured out a better way to fix it? :)

[Devast]

I and one other person thatI have talked withhave a problem where we can not put a T3 hall on level 0. I can put most other structures on level 0 and completely use it but the T3 hall just will not go. Anyone have info on this?

Thanks,
Devast

[oneirosuchus]

Probably due to terrain, Devast. I was going to put one at my inital entrance, too, but it wouldn't stick. I went with a t2 instead and it's fine.

[Dragoniade]

I see Dragonaide I believe ran into a bug... (urks)

I'll ask here, has anyone else run into the initial bug of after you open up the planning window and click on the "+" button, the window that pops up to display your chamber options just sits there blank?

I've run into this a few times, but usually if I close the window, and sit there fo ra few minutes, trying a few more times eventually the chambers/options load and I can build from there. And never again does it fail to load.

But is anyone else having this issue? My mate had the same issue last night, but it never loaded for him even after trying various things for half an hour, until he gave up in frustration. For me its only taken 5-10 minutes maybe.

But just wondering if anyone else has this loading issue? Anyone figured out a better way to fix it? [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Yes. And I ran into it again after a WM "fixed" my laird, which required me to sell it to the community, destroying everything, repurchasing it, and rebuilding everything.

She said that the patch will be pushed on the next delta, then on blight. So there's not really any ETA on when it will go live...

As for the bug, if you build ONE structure, you MUST close the planning window and not attempt to build a second room. If you do so, you'll end up with disconnected room, which will prevent you from adding or removing other rooms.

[Dragoniade]

Ok, the silos are done differently from the biped equivalent and if the only thing you want to put on your plot is silos (excuse me, storage areas)thenyou won't do as well as a dragon then as a rich biped.But I was able to put a lot of stuff in my standard sized personal plot (not a guild plot) including a tier 5 guildhouse which didn't come close to dominating the entier plot. I could have had two tier 5 guildhouses (oneHelian, one Lunus)if I'd wanted. In fact I ran out of things I wanted to put on my plot before I ran out of space on which to put it.

We're not exactly hurting.

I don't mind "different". Heck, when racian silos are going to be released, I wouldn't like to see 6 type of silo with the same model, but a different color.
But, BUT,... Making silo, not 3/4, not half, but NINE time smaller than other is plain WRONG.

And why, even though they are called 'storage', they act like Silo? They got the same capacity as silo, but takes between 2 to 9 times more room. As being storage and taking more room, shouldn't they be allowing more stacks? Or more bulk?

Remember that Dragon are master of Dimensional pocket. Why wouldn't our storage follow the same lore, that was propagated ever since we hit level 10?

If Tulga want to make silos 9 times less sub-par, then they should offer something to balance it out. We all want dragons to be different to biped, yes. But being different shouldn't be penalizing us. Give remote access, link to our vault. Increase the stack, increase the bulk, etc. The ideas can easily flow.

And I don't want anyone to tell me or the other wanting better silos, to build more halls. An hall come far behind in term of capacity per surface/volume. The advantage of an hall are stacking capability.

[Levity]

Well, I've done an all T1 level 0 (I'm only Lairshaper 7, it'll take time). Here's the layout:

I put a number of silos in -- they actually make pretty chambers that you can walk into, so I can declare them to be rooms for RP purposes *grins* Has anyone used a dragon silo yet? Does it continue to look like an empty, crystal-lined room?

The green circle is where I want my down spiral, though of course it will have to angle 90 degrees left to work. For now, that's a silo and the down spiral is the circle nestled against the two workshops. I had to go with a crystal chamber and a smelting chamber, since the other choices had attach points that didn't fit.

Lots of room here to take pieces off to upgrade or revise. I'm fairly content with what I did, even though I wasn't using graph paper or preplanning, just shoving things in as they fit. Once the spiral is in final position, I can design the next level.

The lair is pretty darn far from any pad or portal (I bought it for the view of Feladan Woods), and I've low enough cargo capacity, that I'll be surprised if I get this much done any time soon unless I end up with assistants. I mostly play Levity in any case.

Myrthwynn Elendion, new owner of Elvenwood Lair

[Death-knell]

Well Dragonaide the answer is quite simple, since a dragon can build his own lair they have watered down/made less effective and put as many obstacles as they could think of. Why else would 25% of our master and expert forms be withheld from us. Why else would it take 9 times the amount of materials, why else would they purposefully hide or put in the remotest areas possible our primary resources?


to be Dragon is to be shown the carrot then hit with the ultra-sized cattle prod.