Confectioner Preview - Feedback Thread

[Tzael]

Actually, the EoB thing is a suggestion for BEFORE the change is made, in which you can do it without the 75% penalty because it doesn't exist yet. In fact, if you wait for it to exist, you won't be need to do so anyway.

lol too true ! I got agitated while responding to someone who clearly did not want to accept facts for what they are, that I inadvertently skipped over the fact you've just highlighted [:D]

*wanders off, chuckling away merrily*

[Varangaard]

Why should I pay $12.95 and be FORCED to eat food to continue ?
1 hour is a flamming long time to wait for a penalty to be removed , this is not a pro sport it's a GAME !

You are just as 'forced' to buy food as you are 'forced' to buy new armor, scales, weapons and jewelry - or if you are a crafter, tools and cargo gear - when you level up. That is to say, it is entirely unnecessary if you feel that way, but at times it can be a ******** good idea if you wish to remain effective. Only, your bronze suit's ineffectiveness against elite undead does not pass simply by waiting.

[Talitha]

Re: Mob aggro changes,

I have noticed that, without fail, the mob a group attacks will by default go for the lowest adventure level player in that group--regardless of the attacks andthreat-generators cast by other players. It takes a whole whopping lot of damage to get the mob to notice the other group members. This can be annoying when the lower level adventurers are soft-armors/casters, or very young.

On the upside, this is a die-hard way to kite a mob to death while it runs in circles trying to smash thegroup's "lowbie." ^_^;;

One way to cure this for taking new players "on tour" is to not group with them. Then when the group enters combat, the mob ignores the low-level player (if he stands at a smart observationdistance, out of AoE range). This makes traveling difficult though, to keep track of people. A group could assign a "guardian" to group up with the lower-level player but remain out of combat, helping keep an eye on things. (But if the "guardian" enters combat with the mob, it will break off and go for his "lowbie.")

[:$] Often times being the lowbie of a group, I get chased and smacked a lot. [:P] So I try to avoid that.

[Bori Grimbattle]

I still insist it is unfair to other crafters. For one, only alchemists have a virtual unlimited market for their wares. Porting from PB to PB and hoping someone else has not filled that PBs quota for the day is not a viable alternative.

As well, let us assume you are a crafter harvesting Travertine. You spend a lot of time dodging mobs and filling your disc and inventory, only to get ganked while dragging your disc to a resource center to process. Now 75% reduction in skills is not going to allow those just starting on a higher level resource to process that resource. So they have a couple of options. Wait an hour twiddling their thumbs, delete what is in their inventory,leave their disk behind and go looking for food to reduce that penalty. Now let us say that the resource center they are using is in a settlement and is open to all but the Guild/person owning the tavern closes it to all but those in his/her guild. The unguilded crafter is going to spend an inordinate amount of time reducing that death penalty when all he/she really wants to do is increase his/her skill in the craft he is working on.

For those that log in for an hour or two after work to get a load or two in, this is going to provide a detriment that many will just give up on. Whereas before, a draft of ambrosia would allow them to continue or just a short wait.

I think they have once again swung the pendulum too far in one direction.

[Illi]

Now let us say that the resource center they are using is in a settlement and is open to all but the Guild/person owning the tavern closes it to all but those in his/her guild. The unguilded crafter is going to spend an inordinate amount of time reducing that death penalty when all he/she really wants to do is increase his/her skill in the craft he is working on.

[:|] What possible reason would a guild/person have to CLOSE their tavern to the public??? They don't hold anything so it's not like they're going to be robbed blind! I can't follow the logic on that at all. Of course you're going to have private plots, but give me a break. I think that's stretching the scene a bit to fit the argument. I can't even imagine this happening. Open plots for use but closed tavern? I doubt that highly. And even if they did do that, for some ungodly reason, you can still eat food without a tavern.

And it was also explained to me that a guild, trying to stock for a hunt or event might close their tavern so that the food doesn't get bought up beforehand, and in this case, I have to say, you can still eat food, just buy it beforehand, keep it on you. But I don't see them stocking a tavern keeper for an event, I see them stocking a GH which would be safer.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

On a lighter note....

I've decided to add a Small Tavern to the plot I have out at Mithril's Anvil - Chaos (Its the one closest to the Marble, basically last plot before the resources fields begin.)

That plot also will have an Expert StoneShop, an Expert Pottery Shop, Journeyman Spell, Smithy, Carpenters, Confectioners and Mill. I plan on having some Open silos for all - mosty will be guild only tho. Oh, and I managed to put in a Vault, Tier 1 GH (for all to bind to), a Tier 5 PB, Tier 2 PB, Tier 1 PB and Tier 2 Consigner.


It ain't to pretty (that's reserved for my other plot in Aiya) but its completely functionable and I'm hoping it will get used by Adventurers as a rest stop (with the tavern), used to sell goods and food etc. Think of it as a "Last Stop for 10 Miles" sorta place for the shard.

[Goriax]

[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-8.gif[/img] What possible reason would a guild/person have to CLOSE their tavern to the public??? They don't hold anything so it's not like they're going to be robbed blind! I can't follow the logic on that at all. Of course you're going to have private plots, but give me a break. I think that's stretching the scene a bit to fit the argument. I can't even imagine this happening. Open plots for use but closed tavern? I doubt that highly.

How about because they want the foods on the tavern consigner to be kept available for guildies. I expect lots of taverns to be closed to the public. True, you don't need the tavern IF and I say IF you're able to buy the food although that means you have to buy twice as much. Whether that's a hardship depends again on how plentiful and how expensive the food is. That depends on vageries of the economics and if it's being sold on anything but tavern consigners closed to the public.

Because the confectioner change comes with a huge nerf to all players, TG'stop priorityshould NOT be improving the gameplayfor confectioners. It should be improving the gameplayfor EVERYONE. Confectioners should come AFTER they're assured they're not messing up everyone else's gameplay.

Does this change improve or at least not degrade the gameplay for everyone?

[Senkeleron Fell]

If you EVER get enough death points to get even CLOSE to 75% reduction you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong.

[ForHeavensSake]

If you EVER get enough death points to get even CLOSE to 75% reduction you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong.

You have totally missed the point, as a tester on Blight for you live players, we actually test all the new epic tests, the proximity problems, the new spells, weapons etc. Guess what we die HEAPS testing these, so yeah we tend to get ALOT of dps just to ensure they aren't bugged so they can be patched to live servers.
BUT even for non blight testers, doing an epic AROP, ROP, etc means you often have to put yourself into situations that will cause ALOT of Death Points, try taking on Valkor or Reklar, you cant tell me you walked out of those situations unscathed?
Or in the case of crafters in new tiers, often pulling a disk is a dangerous job (loss of road bonus) etc and if you dump your disk and run, often going back to retrieve it is just as dangerous.
We are not saying dont work on the Confectioners classes, we are simply saying totally revamping the dp penalty isnt the way to go about it

[cattoy]

No, you've completely missed the point.

Assuming that the devs aren't interested in making confectioners into competitors for alchemists (as has been stated) then the PRIMARY function of the confectioner is to get rid of DP.

DPs as currently implemented make confectioners worthless because DPs go away for free.

Without a complete redesign of the DP system, then confectioners will continue to be useless because people can just wait for the penalties to go away for free.

[Cascade]

1. Incorrect or not it is MY OPINION , I am allowed to express it !
1a . Or am I ???
2 . An hour is a long to time to sit around waiting
3. I have read all 5 pages
4. We all have Started with 1 POST on a forum at some stage
5. I am not opposed to a revamp of the confect school just the increase in dp timers
6. Why penalise players who die multiple timeswhilst playing a GAME!
7. Why bother trying to explain my point of view when obviously there are hardheads who feel their opinion is "correct and true" and mine is not

Adios elite posters from now on I will keep my opinions to myself

[ForHeavensSake]

Like all others in the forum I chose one topic to start posting in, please Kumu dont go around stating that you have read my mind and that

"You aren't the "One post wonder". The person with the forum name of "ForHeavensSake" is. He created his name with the sole pupose to post about these changes with no desire to become an active member in the least"

I do have an opinion, no I am not the voice of blight, "we" instead of "me" was an error made while doing a post, but certainly no need to then state you know me and my desires.

I think the Confectioners class is a great class and with work can certainly be a kick butt class, but my opinion on dp penalities etc is just that my opinion and I am just as entitled as you to be able to say how I feel

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I'm gonna humbly request we get this thread back on track and people start posting more rationally and debating instead of reactionary and inflaming before the thread gets locked and defeats the purpose it was made for; feedback on the changes. Can't give feedback if it gets locks.

So for everyones sake, even your own; keep it on topic, keep it rational, give your opinion, debate your side, give alternatives, and try not to fly off the handle. I'd really hate for the mods to start using their, "everything Conf related gets locked/deleted/moved to rants or the Conf section" heavy-handedness again.

Thanks

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

What Snow said! I'm only a lowly Confectioner but I think their concerns and development timedeserve just as much respect that I called for when it came to dragon fixes/development.

[gena_st]

I'm gonna humbly request we get this thread back on track and people start posting more rationally and debating instead of reactionary and inflaming before the thread gets locked and defeats the purpose it was made for; feedback on the changes. Can't give feedback if it gets locks.

*cheers!!*


Okay, back to the confectioner topic. Here's some thoughts/ideas/comments that may seem totally unrelated after all those 5 pages of discussion:

1) I really like the comment someone made about making some resources that only other classes can access/provide. For instance, since (as Tzael pointed out) just about all of the current forms for confectioner use the Cooking skill, why not make some ingredients that use a different sort of skill to process that a Gatherer has to do? Maybe a separate skill for things like Milled Ingredients. Also, doing things this way could be a way to cut out the Vielo dependance.

2) Another way to get rid of the Vielo - instead of rare drops or bonus resources, make "Seasoning Golems". I think it'd be a lot of (messy) fun to chase around a Chocolate Golem and then pick it to pieces once its dead (and eat it! yum!). And these can be pretty easily tiered, so that "Curry Golems" are level 80, while "Brown Sugar Golems" are only 20 or something. Confectioners would have to rely on adventurers to escort them and kill the monsters for them, so they wouldn't be independant in gathering ingredients.

3) Not having actually played with the new DP system, I'm going to reserve further comment on what I think it will do to the game. What I do ask is that this roll-out be made carefully. For instance, maybe not going from 8 hours to 24 hours in one patch. Just add a few hours and see what the impact is. Also, perhaps it'd be a good idea to leave the Ambrosia Form and ingredients in the game for a while, until people have adjusted to the Death Point and Death Penalty times and effects.


Next, I have a couple comments and questions:

1) Are there going to be changes to the Healer and Dragon abilities that reduce Death Point time? Currently, the Superior Resurect ("Super Rez", as I like to call it) is not phrased "Removes a Death Point", but, rather, "Reduces time to next Death Point removal by 8 hours". Will this be changed to equal the new Death Point interval?

2) Can we get some alternate meats? My guild refuses to eat anything that was cute once, so Mutton, Venison and even Beef is off the menu for them. I was thinking Ogre Steak might be more appropriate. ;)

3) Has there been any sort of timetable posted for when any of these changes are going to start appearing? I'd really like to at least hear thoughts from Blight on how easy/hard these changes are going to make things.

[LaughingOtter]

2) Can we get some alternate meats? My guild refuses to eat anything that was cute once, so Mutton, Venison and even Beef is off the menu for them. I was thinking Ogre Steak might be more appropriate. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

Well, you always have gruok...

I wonder if beetle tastes like lobster?

[Deth]

Well, you always have gruok...

I wonder if beetle tastes like lobster?

Nope all they do is smush and smear across the ground no meat to speak of.

Overall I like the sound of things. I think the new death penalty will be fine. It is still much better then XP loss I think.

As to dragon foods I am off two minds of this. I understand that a dragon is not to be a completely contained class. I role-play that I eat raw deer and such, no gnomes for me. But also understand the RP of some that do not want to rely on Bipeds for anything.

But maybe some racial specific food that gives bonus to just that race or bigger bonus to that race? Like Roasted Mice that are usable only by the 3 mouse eating races or maybe offer them a bigger bonus?

[Nosdracir]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]gena_st wrote:

2) Can we get some alternate meats? My guild refuses to eat anything that was cute once, so Mutton, Venison and even Beef is off the menu for them. I was thinking Ogre Steak might be more appropriate. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]


Well, you always have gruok...

I wonder if beetle tastes like lobster?

Level 20 Wild Tofurkeys roaming amongst the Ferocious Gruok. In the Northern Deadlands, Son of Seitan weaves his glutinous web. [:D]

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

There would be very easy ways of introducing some of the Vielo bought resources into the world.... Via Oastics!

Chocolate - (Tamed) Coacoa Nut Oastic
Harvest Coacoa Nuts from Oastic with a Harvest Knife and use the Milled Cooking Ingredients recipe for Chocolate {note: doesn't exist but it's how it could}= Coacoa Nuts + Sugar + Milk + Millstone = Chocolate

Cinnamon - (Tamed) Cinnamon Oastic
Harvest Cinnamon Quills from Cinnamon Oastics with a Harvest Knife and it can be used in some recipes whole {drinks or flavoring for boiled items in a sub-combine} or can be processed using the Milled Cooking Ingredients recipe for Ground Cinnamon = Cinnamon Quill + Millstone = Ground Cinnamon.

Ginger - (Tamed) Ginger Oastic
Harvest Ginger Root from Ginger Oastics with a Harvest Knife. Since there is really no processing needed to use it it could be a direct use product. If it is seen as needing to be processed then a recipe could be added to the Dried Fruits formulae for Candied/Glazed Ginger = Ginger Root + Sugar = Candied/Glazed Ginger
As well as a recipe be added to the Milled Cooking Ingredients formulae for Ground Ginger = Ginger Root + Millstone = Ground Ginger.

Nutmeg - (Tamed) Nutmeg Oastic
Harvest Nutmeg from Nutmeg Oastics with a Harvest Knife and use the Milled Cooking Ingredients recipe for Ground Nutmeg = Nutmeg + Millstone = Ground Nutmeg

I don't know what other ingredients are on the Vielo that could be introduced but that's just a few ideas. I personally don't have much of an issue with the Vielo selling the ingredients for the short term, I did/do have a problem with the price they sell them at and the amounts needed though. I like the lore behind why the Vielo have them when the ingredients were introduced (IE stuff not found in Istaria that the Vielo "acquired"). But it seems I'm in a major minority in not minding the Vielo selling them so I'm giving alternatives....

The thing about these special Oastics though, since no known lands have these ingredients then a new island would need discovery. This island would need to be tropical in origin since all of these ingredients are from tropical plants/trees. This island would 1) need to be difficult to get to for the first time out, 2) need a serverwide effort to facilitate easier access, and 3) be the ONLY place to find these creatures. These ingredients should *not* be concidered everyday ingredients hence the added effort. Maybe some time after the islands discovery and the ingredients get widely used for awhile "farmers" can begin importing and raising the Oastics themselves in Istaria lands proper.

[imported_Sablisk]

As it is now to many DP's means its time to to log out for the day.

Under this purposed system to many DP's will mean its time to log for the week.

Only thing I see this change doing isdrasticly limiting my time in game.

Is it worth it to pay a monthly fee for a game I can only play once or twice a week ?