So... how does a dragon make coin nowadays?

[Dhalin]

Well, I've been hearing about this Pawn Broker nerf and how -everyone- can only sell x amount of y item to each pawnbroker, which is assininely stupid, but I'm sure several others have already commented on this.

Now, maybe I am only a hatchling, maybe I am only Lv25, but with only 28 silver to my name, and a few odds and ends items here and there, I'm wondering just how I am expected to make money. Ever since dinging 25, I need 100 copper just to teleport, and the things I used to do for money largely involved selling craftables and selling refurbished junk. But with this pawnbroker nerf, I wonder how in the world I am ever supposed to make money. I don't think anyone buys much refurbished gear (why would they? The normal stuff is easy to make/find/obtain), and its not very often I actually get a Tier II tech/forms. Also, most of the Tier I tech/forms I have been finding have been worth under 50 copper each (some of them I can't even get to sell for 10!). Half of that 27 silver I got was from the few days I spent endlessly killing the Lv1 straw doll ghosts on that island near Parsinia, trying to get IBMs and Tokens so I could buy the forms/techs for my next claw/scale upgrades.

So that leaves me to ask, how in the world are we supposed to make money? I hear that lair auctions are over now, and that your average lair costs a whopping _five hundred_ silver. I look at my 27 silver wallet and I'm just shaking my head, wondering if I am Ever going to enjoy any of these things myself. I don't want to be a hatchling forever, I have already been in this game for 3 months, now admittedly I had taken a couple weeks off due to IRL, but geez. Did they want Only Lv100 dragons to have lairs or something? I dunno I just feel that its disheartening, hoard items rarely drop, too. My hoard is starting to fall behind my level (I'm supposed to have 57K hoard, I only have 39K) and monsters equally levelled to me are starting to get harder and harder to kill because of the small (but noticable) lack of armor/breath weapon power/etc that hoard gives.

I'm just not sure what I am supposed to do about this.. trying to level crafting, and adventure level And trying to get some money, ugh. I'm sorry if this post sounds whiny, but I think they could have been a little more considerate to the lower level peeps when they made that stupid pawnbroker nerf.

--Dhalin

[Mirsathia]

Well, I've been hearing about this Pawn Broker nerf and how -everyone- can only sell x amount of y item to each pawnbroker, which is assininely stupid, but I'm sure several others have already commented on this.

Now, maybe I am only a hatchling, maybe I am only Lv25, but with only 28 silver to my name, and a few odds and ends items here and there, I'm wondering just how I am expected to make money. Ever since dinging 25, I need 100 copper just to teleport, and the things I used to do for money largely involved selling craftables and selling refurbished junk. But with this pawnbroker nerf, I wonder how in the world I am ever supposed to make money. I don't think anyone buys much refurbished gear (why would they? The normal stuff is easy to make/find/obtain), and its not very often I actually get a Tier II tech/forms. Also, most of the Tier I tech/forms I have been finding have been worth under 50 copper each (some of them I can't even get to sell for 10!). Half of that 27 silver I got was from the few days I spent endlessly killing the Lv1 straw doll ghosts on that island near Parsinia, trying to get IBMs and Tokens so I could buy the forms/techs for my next claw/scale upgrades.

So that leaves me to ask, how in the world are we supposed to make money? I hear that lair auctions are over now, and that your average lair costs a whopping _five hundred_ silver. I look at my 27 silver wallet and I'm just shaking my head, wondering if I am Ever going to enjoy any of these things myself. I don't want to be a hatchling forever, I have already been in this game for 3 months, now admittedly I had taken a couple weeks off due to IRL, but geez. Did they want Only Lv100 dragons to have lairs or something? I dunno I just feel that its disheartening, hoard items rarely drop, too. My hoard is starting to fall behind my level (I'm supposed to have 57K hoard, I only have 39K) and monsters equally levelled to me are starting to get harder and harder to kill because of the small (but noticable) lack of armor/breath weapon power/etc that hoard gives.

I'm just not sure what I am supposed to do about this.. trying to level crafting, and adventure level And trying to get some money, ugh. I'm sorry if this post sounds whiny, but I think they could have been a little more considerate to the lower level peeps when they made that stupid pawnbroker nerf.

--Dhalin

Rather than pawning forms, techs, or comps that are dropped, you might want to try consigning them for a reasonable amount of money (100-200c). Or you could craft spells to sell on New Trismus.

It's simple to gauge what sells and what doesn't - just take a look at the list of spells on there. Make something that *isn't* on the list, and price it reasonably - again, about 100-150c is pretty decent. Or undercut someone who's selling a spell for way too much (500c plus).

If you take the time to learn how to sell properly, it's very easy to make money.


~Mirsathia

[Vyr]

The pawnbroker nerf isn't the end of the world. They still take your items, they still pay you for the items, they just don't pay you a flat rate for huge loads of items. Unless you're trying to pawn a couple hundred of something, you're unlikely to see much of a price reduction.

How to make money though? It's not that hard. I'm 25th too and have about the same amount of coin you have right now. However, I had 60 silver before I hit twentieth and I current have just under 400k hoard.

My strategy is simple. Hoard everything that you won't make a decent return selling (all those regular armor and weapons that get dropped and most of the blighted stuff too), sell the techs and other goodies that you can't use. Mine gems for fun and profit. Make scales and claws for exp and hoard. If you want to move your crafting levels up fairly quickly, make and deconstruct spells that you haven't peaked on yet.

Always check the connies for hoard items. Never pay more than a 1:3 ratio of coin to hoard.

[Dhalin]

I always Consign Forms and Techs... my apologies for not specifying in my OP. Many of the ones that drop are barely worth 50-100c. While its some money, it doesn't even cover Teleport costs nowadays. And as far as you selling Expert Forms and Techs.. um... I'm Lv25. I don't -find- expert forms and techs.

I have Crafting Lv23 and I was making and deconstructing Arcane Refusal spells, and its still good exp, so I'm gonna keep doing that for awhile, I dunno I wonder if I should start doing scales for hoard? I didn't really think 20-50 hoard per scale was all that great though. It'd take hundreds of scales before I'd notice much of a hoard difference I'd think...

Hmmmm.

--Dhalin

[Tympest]

Another thing you can do is find ways to teleport for free. Go get attuned to abandoned island (if you aren't already), then you can port between major cities for free. Ie, Dralk -> Abandoned Island -> Chiconis. Sure it's an extra port, but you save 100cp each time.

[Vyr]

I wonder if I should start doing scales for hoard? I didn't really think 20-50 hoard per scale was all that great though. It'd take hundreds of scales before I'd notice much of a hoard difference I'd think...

Yes, it would.

However, as you said you had only 39k hoard, I think you'll find that it will make a noticable impact. Doing even 100 scales at 50 apiece is 5000 hoard that you didn't have before.

I spent the time to do a whole bunch of bronze-sandstone armor wing scales one day. After filling up my cargo disc with sandstone on NT and hauling it over to the bronze working area, I ended up making around 400 scales nine or ten at a time. I got a nice chunk of exp and around 20k hoard.

If you did the same thing, it would be a 50% increase in your hoard size for an afternoon's work. That seems worth it to me.

[Dhalin]

Well, as an update I now have 42K hoard, a Silvered Urn, and 2 Anqituated Shields dropped for a total of 3600 hoard. That still leaves me 18-20K under what I should be since I last checked. Hmmm. I have max efficiency with Tier I now, and a 6000-capacity disk (along with my 1800 Capacity Pack, and my 300 I have from the two Storing quests), I might take some time to pump out a whole buttload of scales or something lol.

(Just for Clarification, Anvils work like Scaleforges, right? I heard someone mention this but never tested it).

--Dhalin

[Romirez]

the easiest way i found out is to get a bunch of creature trophies, like the garnet golem shard things, or treant scions. get like 50 or so, and you get almost 1s for your work.

[Telpeloci]

Well, as an update I now have 42K hoard, a Silvered Urn, and 2 Anqituated Shields dropped for a total of 3600 hoard. That still leaves me 18-20K under what I should be since I last checked.

Just as a note, I'd stop worrying about that now. Odds are extremely high that you're just NOT going to keep up for very long. Keep building your hoard by all means, but don't worry about whether or not you're at the max for your level.

[Dhalin]

Well, I worry because of the mobs near-pwning me every time I go out to do an Ability Quest... mobs that are 1-3 levels under me (sometimes mobs that are even with my level) are way too hard for me to kill for some stupid reason.

I thought dragons were supposedly good at taking out single mobs higher level than they? Coulda fooled me... maybe if you spam Gold Rage and Silver Strike on everything, yeah... but... that... burns hoard! LOL.

I only use Gold Rage and Silver Strike if its an emergency, or if I am facing a known boss monster, or encounter I can't normally kill otherwise. I try to use it sparingly instead of spamming it on everything. With that being said, with the exception of Ruxus, just about any Lv24-27 mob does Serious damage to me (I finish the fight with 25% or less health left in the case of an equal-levelled mob). Sure, I can use Refreshing Breeze II, but... that has a nasty recast timer, and again. That's an "Emergency" or "Boss Fight" thing. I always buff with True Grit and Promote Vitality and I always use Determination. Arcane Refusal isn't really helpful, nor is Countercheck Primal....those are only dealing with spells, right? Not too many mobs I fight actually cast spells. At least, not yet.

So I kinda need to keep hoard maxed for the Armor and Breath Weapon Damage anyways.

--Dhalin

[dorrin]

If you want to move your crafting levels up fairly quickly, make and deconstruct spells that you haven't peaked on yet.

actually, most agree this is _not_ the way to go.. make and decon spells you're just over optimal for.
and as a recommendation, don't switch up to the next tier of resources 'til you're 3:1 for unrefined -> refined
low level crafting is better served doing craft tasks for lore tokens unless you intend to simply buy them. it's slower levelling but well worth it when you have more options to choose from when looking for something to craft for XP.

[Valornyx]

I thought dragons were supposedly good at taking out single mobs higher level than they? Coulda fooled me... maybe if you spam Gold Rage and Silver Strike on everything, yeah... but... that... burns hoard! LOL.

Adult dragons are strong - hatchies are not. You will get stronger as you level.

If you want to make money - use all those adult dragons who are building lairs frantically to your advantage.

You can switch over to lairshaping and do work on someones lair - I saw Quantum advertising for work done at 1-2s per piece applied.. If you do not want to do this - make resources that we need like dim orbs... I saw 1000 disappear off the connies very quickly the other day.

Instead of relying on PB runs - use the marketplace to your advantage.

I saw a dragon (admittedly a high level one) make 8g off a biped by collecting resources - there is plenty of work out there and plenty of people with a lot of money that are prepared to pay you to help them.

[Vyr]

actually, most agree this is _not_ the way to go.. make and decon spells you're just over optimal for.

I have heard this multiple times. Empirical testing does not support it. I get more exp for making things that I have not peaked on rather than things I'm just over optimal for.

Optimal and above uses fewer resources in making things and I recover more resources in the deconstruction, but I definitely get less overall exp then something that's still much more of a challenge for me.

[Theolaerynn]

Kumu, time to mod your sig. We have Lairs now, after all [:P]

[imported_Lycaunoss]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]dorrin wrote: actually, most agree this is _not_ the way to go.. make and decon spells you're just over optimal for.

I have heard this multiple times. Empirical testing does not support it. I get more exp for making things that I have not peaked on rather than things I'm just over optimal for.

Optimal and above uses fewer resources in making things and I recover more resources in the deconstruction, but I definitely get less overall exp then something that's still much more of a challenge for me.

If that's true then the devs must have tweaked the xp. Have you actually recorded numbers using both methods and checked them against each other? Back when I was levelling craft it was exactly as Dorrin has stated. You get more xp for making things that you are just barely optimal at making. Also important is to try and pick something that is an even number of things to craft or you will lose resources when you decon the item since it will round down.

As far as making money I agree with Kumu that the PB change hasn't really effected us nearly as much as people would have you believe. You can still sell a bunch of stuff to the PB you just can't do many repeated runs of stuff. To be honest you can switch up the item and probably get decent coin if you like doing that sort of thing.

[Alladania]

I don't think you mentioned which shard you're on. As someone else pointed out, there's a high demand for lair products right now. Even if you can't do lairshaping, I would happily buy reasonably priced t1 lair materials to save myself the hours spent gathering.

[Talitha]

Well, I worry because of the mobs near-pwning me every time I go out to do an Ability Quest... mobs that are 1-3 levels under me (sometimes mobs that are even with my level) are way too hard for me to kill for some stupid reason.

I thought dragons were supposedly good at taking out single mobs higher level than they? Coulda fooled me... maybe if you spam Gold Rage and Silver Strike on everything, yeah... but... that... burns hoard! LOL.
......
So I kinda need to keep hoard maxed for the Armor and Breath Weapon Damage anyways.

I dunno if this will work for you, but when I first started out as a hatchling I was very very ignorant of the world. I didn't know what the deconstruct button did [:$] so while I was grinding early craft levels, I was eating everything I made for hoard. Bit by bit, by the time I made about adventure level 12-15 I had about twice the hoard I needed to maintain optimum. ^_^; Although you may not want to do that much crafting, it is one method of keeping an inflow to your hoard when you're not always out killing things for drops. Plus, higher craft levels will also let you use stronger scales, which mightassist you with the mob elimination problem, along with your buffs. (I do know the feeling; as a hatchling I was getting slaughtered by spiders half my level. [:S] I felt pathetic.) I still hoard every third or so load of scales I make when craft grinding, just to bump the numbers.

I also haven't had a problem getting a touch of extra cash while crafting, by dropping a handful of different kinds of bars, bricks, scales, etc on whatever pawnbroker I happen to run across, along with any extra useless loot things. Sure, I'm not making millions, but every little bit helps. ^_^

Hope this was a little useful.
~Talitha

[Vyr]

Have you actually recorded numbers using both methods and checked them against each other?

I have done side by side comparisons, but I didn't save the numbers.

The next time I get a chance to get on, I'll see if I have any formulas that are appropriate for retesting with my current skills.

[dorrin]

yes, but the real question is did you _time_ yourself. XP isn't XP. XP over time is XP.
even if you get a ton of XP if it takes you 3 times as long to do it as something you get half the XP for it isn't worth it.

[Tantalyr]

I don't think you mentioned which shard you're on. As someone else pointed out, there's a high demand for lair products right now. Even if you can't do lairshaping, I would happily buy reasonably priced t1 lair materials to save myself the hours spent gathering.

I'll expand a bit on Alladania's good thought. Try advertising your services in either the Market or Dragon channel to either actually build other players' lair chambers/corridors of, if you have no interest at all in lairshaping, then offer to gather stone slabs/bricks, metal ore/bars and essence/orbs.

This weekend I came across a hatchling just starting in on lairshaping and hungry for coin to purchase his own lair. So I offered him 750 copper per placed imbued bronze bars, weak excoriations of earth and primal essence of melding (since each of those only take two types of resources), and one silver per placed viridian lattices, rough maelstones and rough flowstones, to build a Tier I storage chamber (silo) on level 0 of my lair. The total came out to be around 275 silver, and the young hatchling is thrilled to work on it, get some very good coin and some very good experience in lairshaping. And I'm thrilled to have someone working on a storage chamber for me so I can concentrate on constructing my Tier IV chambers.

I'm sure there are plenty of still-wealthy dragons who would happily pay for work on their lairs as well. And when you calculate it out, at the coin rate I stated above all you need to do is build just two Tier I storage chambers and you've enough silver to purchase your own lair.

Speaking of which, after comparing pricing on biped plot construction (an inexact science at best), comparing finished construction units needing application, and chatting with dragons, my conclusion for fair pricing for lair construction work is:

Tier I:

750 copper per placed imbued bars, excoriations of earth and primal essence
1 silver per placed lattices, flowstones and maelstones

Tier II:

1.25 silver per placed imbued bars, excoriations of earth and primal essence
1.5 silver per placed lattices, flowstones and maelstones

Tier III

2 silver per placed imbued bars, excoriations of earth and primal essence
2.5 silver per placed lattices, flowstones and maelstones

Tier IV

3silver per placed imbued bars, excoriations of earth and primal essence
3.5silver per placed lattices, flowstones and maelstones

Tier V

4.25silver per placed imbued bars, excoriations of earth and primal essence
5silver per placed lattices, flowstones and maelstones

Tier VI

*chuckles as he imagines trying to find any player willing to even think about doing Tier VI lair construction work*

Any thoughts on whether these suggested prices are too high/low?