Death Point and Penalty proposed changes - DISCUSS HERE!

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Will the length of time that death points last and the death point penalty be increased?
Yes, the length of time it takes for a death point to decay will be increased to 24 hours. And the death point penalty cap (the highest it can reach) will be raised to 75%.

Since this seems to be all anyone is worried about here's its own thread. Have at it and have fun!

:D

[Dhalin]

..... 24 hours for a Death Point to decay?

Um....

That's a bit much, don't you think? *blinks* I think we should have it based upon Level. Make it maybe that a Lv100's DP decays in 24 hours, while a Level 50's DP decays in 12 hours, and a Level 25's DP decays in 6 hours, and a Lv13's DP decays in 3 hours, etc.

Lower level people, Especially Dragon Hatchlings Die. They Die a Lot. Some of these quests are already borderline ridiculous in challenge (I know it sounds like I'm biased towards dragons, I'm sorry my main is a dragon... and a hatchling. For those of you who haven't played one, trust me. Some of these quests are Hell.). Lower Level characters don't have much as it is. Money, etc. The Dragons, the lower levels are hatchlings, they can't fly, and they are weak compared to adults and ancients. The Bipeds, most lower levels are not multiclassed out the wazoo and are not as capable of sustaining themselves as one that is multiclassed, or a dragon adult (or ancient even).

I think its unfair to make these lower level players wait 24 hours before their DPs decay....

[Edit: I'd have to ask what exactly spawned this change? You didn't think these quests were hard enough as it is? Okay, you die a few times and its "Hey, let's make them stay weak, Longer, so that the quest is even Harder to do. Yaay. Let's encourage MORE powerlevelling than there already is!"]

--Dhalin

[Varangaard]

*looks through the proposed change again*

Nope, nothing there says you'll stay weak longer than before. What they did do, though, was to make the potential consequences of dying (aka death penalty) more dangerous. As for what did spawn this change is the upcoming confectioner class revamp. I'd suggest everyone checks the confectioner changes first so they know what strings are attached to DP changes.

[Doombreak]

It will make players more aware of thier life when they are out hnting thus be more careful not to pull that extra mob they cant handle also wen u get x amount its about tellign the player well thats enoiugh of these for now or somehting like that.

[PJ]

-Having death points (8 hour or 24 hour) does no prevent you from playing the game
-Having the death penaly on you does not prevent you from playing the game. However, it does reduce your skills/stats so it can inhibit you in doing some things. You'll still be able to craft, but not as well, still be able to hunt, but might need to pick safer targets for awhile.

Therefore purchasing food from a confectioner is not, nor will be required to play the game.

As it stands death is no big deal, the change both to the length of the penalty, and the severity of the penalty when one has more extreme quantities of death points, reinforces death as a BAD thing. As I believe it should be. Something to be avoided.

Nowanother goal of the chance isto encourage the purchase and use of food for the purposes of death point reduction. For food use to be encouraged, the average rate of death has to be greater then the natural expiration of a death point. If i get 2 death points a day, why am i using food? 3 death points expire per day as it stands. Me? I doubt i've gotten 3 death points per played day, much less per calendar day. There's no encouragement for me to use food whatsoever. No I do get at least 1 per day, usually 2, occasionally 3. There's some encouragement for me to use food with the new change, but its far from required. Required would be no natural decay at all.


However I can sympathize with Dhalin's point of view and can agree it could be softened for lower levels, maybe a lower % reduction cap, shorter death points or a combination. But by the time you hit level 80, it should be as currently planned.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Man, the young ones these days....try EQ Death Penalty - say around Kunark Expansion. Try binding someplace like the Entrance to POG, then have people keep training level 50-60 mobs up to you before you could even loot your corpse(s). I lost 1.5 levels in one night during such a fiasco.

Having a Dp last 24hrs instead of 8 means:

1. Don't fight over your ability to fight and fight smart.

2. Start grouping more and form groups intelligently (ie designated healers)

3. FINALLY Risk is gonna get somewhat on par with Reward.

I have a guildie who hunts constantly. Not too long ago he got a DP while on one of the Island beachesbecause he stepped back into the water (over his head) and proceeded to get stunned til he ran out of breath. Guess what? New DP systemisn't not gonna stop him from adventuring anymore, but he will be more careful because of it. That's what this game needs.

[Oakleif]

Keep in mind that the change is for the Death Point, not the Death Penalty. The Death Points only determine the length and severity of the Death Penalty. The more Death Points you have, the longer the Death Penalty is, and the worse it is for your statistics and consequently for your abilities.

However, once the Death Penalty wears off, you have no further effect from the Death Point until you die again. You could have 100 Death Points and yet you'd still fight at maximum ability once the Death Penalty wore off.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Actually, the change is for both. The Penalty may not be increasing in time but its effect is increasing from 25% to 75% max effect.

[imported_Sablisk]

For me 4 times the DP time means 1/4 the gametime.

That will take me from playing every day to once or twice a week.

Dont kid yourselves, this will cost them subscriptions.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

It's 3 times the DP. DPs last 8 hours now.

[imported_Sablisk]

Even the old hard core PvP games like UO have next to no penalty for death now days.

Yet Horizons the game that bills itself as "good fun with out the hard core penalties" on its home page is moving to a system that has by far harshest penalty for death of any game I have ever played.

Its a backwards idea that has been proven to be detrimental to subscription numbers in many other games and this is why other games have toned penalty for death way way down.

[Kitimandiri]

It would be nice if they posted a reason why they were changing it. It should be better than that the confectioners need it for income. Having to run all the way back is pain in the ****** enough with this lag.

[Ulkesh]

This is SO NOT a severe punishment for death. If you die multiple times it could get rough yeah, but you shouldn't NOT worry about death.

And it's not like they aren't adding a balance to the DP changes. These changes help to give confectioners a purpose to exist. Lower tier foods to remove DP time won't cost that much, higher tiered will probly also be appropriately priced.

But even if you don't want to eat to knock off the time, I have a hard time believing this will cost them a noticable amount of subs.

[Fratricide]

Heh.. at least they didn't take my suggestionand make DP's only reduce while actually logged into the game... If it was me settin it up, you would have to be "in game" for 24 hours to remove 1 dp... this whole "I can remove DP's while logged out" is a pile of BS. Either be in game to remove the DP, or eat food to remove it faster. I spose your now glad I dont work for TG... wait.. Im prolly glad too.[:D]

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

You know frat, I personally feel it SHOULD be exactly as you suggest only leave it at it's current 8 hours (or just bump it up to 10-12 hours). Least then, people get to keep their 8 hour DP but have to be in game to lose it. So it would facilitate giving Confectioners their use and make everyone else happy. Well, somewhat anyways, I'm sure SOMEONE would complain. But honestly, is there really any other game that you are able to reduce death penalty while NOT in game?

CoH - Debt - have to kill things to get out of debt with half XP going to debt payback = in game
EQ - XP/Lvl loss corpse retrieval - Gotta retrieve corpse from graveyard or place of death and kill things to re-earn XP lost = in game
AO - unsaved XP loss - kill things to re-earn XP lost

What systems do WoW and EQ2 have? What about Lineage II, Guild Wars, FF XI, or DAoC? Can you reduce/eliminate your death penalties in this games by being offline. I'd venture to guess not.

[PJ]

Requiring people to be logged in for their death points to decay would just lead to lots of performance decreasing afk people.

Although i guess if they were looking for a way to artifically inflate the online populations...

[Guaran]

They kicked around the idea of completely removing passive DP removal. I said that there's no way the entire player base should be forced to rely on one class for DP removal.

Luckily they listened. The change to 24 hours is thier compromise.

I am glad the class will have a place now.

I am glad that some interesting foods are in the works. (Or at least attempts at making it interesting).

Not looking forward to carrying around 40 foods, macro'd.

I STILL believe that the tier of food should determine the amount of dp time it removes, and that ANY player of any adventure level/rating level should be able to use any tier of food. I think something along these lines is in the works. A level 100 player can (I believe, in the revamped plan) use t1 foods, but gets less dp removal from it.

If they do this and do it right, then there should be 5 or 6 steps in the effectiveness in t1 foods, whereby a t1 rated player gets the same time removed from his dp as a level 90 would get from a t5 food. Each tier beyond the foods' tier can reduce effectiveness by 20%, or maybe by 15%. ALL tiers of foods should have a use though (however it is accomplished), so as to give players choices in who they buy from, competition between tiers, etc.

Maybe each tier past the foods primary tier should only reduce effectiveness by 10%? Example, a t4 food being used by a t5 player, at optimal ( t4 player using the t4 food) the food removes 100 minutes from the dp timer. For the t5 player it will remove 90 minutes.

Before you go crying how this will hurt the market for t5 foods, keep in mind that demand for foods is likely to go up ALOT. They are removing ambrosia. So for the supply to meet demands, lower tier foods will need to remain viable choices for any and all adventurers....

I suppose time will tell, but thats my thoughts on the subject.

[Jayne]

I don't believe they are removing ambrosia. Just one of the ingrediants required to make it. And it is supposedly going to be a rare drop, as it should be.

Jayne

[Guaran]

It's effectively being removed though. It will become a drop, but who knows how rare. I see maybe 1 jewelry set item drop per month, if that. Who knows what will be the chance of dropping. Probably astronomically low.

[Bori Grimbattle]

How about this as an added change. Add some furniture for houses, perhaps even a bed. For those that do NOT wish to hang online eating food in a tavern until their DPs are gone (and some quests generate quite a few of these) allow resting/sleeping in your bed as another method to drop those DPs down at a faster rate. This will at least give people an alternative to setting up an "eat food #1, eat food #2,eat food #3, etc. macro) and walking away to watch television.

The main issue is they raise the DP and Penalty involved but allow only one method to remove it. A high levelhealer should have that ability but can only do so upon rezzing the person. All the eggs in one basket is going to make one big mess when it drops.