Tricut Gems

[imported_Rhyssa]

Any chance of getting the requirements for these cut back to one of each uncut gem? Needing 6 raw resources to make 1 processed resource is a killer, especially when the tricuts are only an intermediate resource. It's really depressing to gather 600 uncut gems (an inventory full for me), only to end up with only 100 tricuts after you cut them. Since you need 3 different gems for each one anyway, I really think this makes them complicated enough to make.

100 lattices needs 12000 uncut gems, and most structures need more than the 50 units you get from 100 lattices, plus you still need the crystals.

Please give this some thought.

[Nayuaka]

Hehe, I was gonna suggest this too but ya beat me to it. Anyway I second this, tri-cut gems are more then annying to make.

[Solitaire]

I'll 3rd this suggestion. I was planning on ambushing some dev in IRC about the same thing. It really does take too long to make a useful amount of those things. I'd hate to even consider doing them if I was not at 100% efficency.

[Vizharan]

I personally have suspended building my lair for some time. It seems they're still twinking the school some, so I decided to wait untill they seem to be finished with it.... Heres to hoping they'll make it slightly easier![B]

[Dhalin]

Easier? Heh, I heard they are trying to make it HARDER.... like, um, making a Crystal Shaper mandatory for making a Lattice instead of a Gemworking Bench...

Can we say, stupid?

Unless you wanna constantly run back to Dralk, or some-such, its hard as nuts to FIND a Crystalshaper anywhere. No more using Gemcutting Benches at the Gem resources. It looks like TG is frantically scrambling to make sure there are no loopholes in which we don't have to haul resources all over the world just to find the stupid machines to make this stuff. I mean come on... the sheer number of items we have to work with is ridiculous, could you at least allow us some handy access to a few machines? OR, if you want to make us run all over Istaria for the stupid machines, how about lessening our workload a little?

--Dhalin

[Loacalea]

I think the Tricut Gems are cute take 2 uncut ofall three.
I don't mind beside most of the gems has a bench near by.
What wrong about keeping Tricut like they are.

[Doombreak]

Making tri-cuts is a pure pain maybe let the have 1 uncut of each type at opt that should b more than betta

[Ghwerig Tatzlwyrm]

Although it does take a lot of time, considering a dragon doesn't have to keep switching schools for crafting, I am quite happy at this time with the 2 uncut of each tier to make the tri-cut gems. Compare this to a biped plot. Either you need lots of different crafters or you need to gain many levels to do the entire thing yourself and many materials as well.

Besides, when your lair is complete..........what are you going to craft then?

I agree with Loacalea

[Nayuaka]

Lattices aretoo hardwithhaving to make tri-cut gems the way they are now. Here's an example. You need 600 normal uncut gems to make 100 tricut and you need 560 tricut just for a corridor of 14 units. Now some things go as high as around 200 lattices for units, it's much harder then it need to be since we still have to gather azulite to add to the gems and it essentually takes 40 resources even at optimum to make one construction resource....and you need 2 for a unit. I pity the poor crafters who arn't at optimal...

[imported_Rhyssa]

I just had another look at intermediate resources and they actually all require the same number of resources. The difference is lodestones and cast stones need a lower level processed resource plus a raw resource ie 2 essence/ slabs+ 2 bricks/bars ( 4 ore/slabs).

I guess the difference is mostly psychological, that and the fact that corridors, which everyone has to do a lot of, take twice the number of lattices as they do flowstones or maelstones.

/sigh....they're still depressing to do.

[LaughingOtter]

I think it's mostly a matter of logistics and infrastructure. Stone and metals are more available and more convenient to reach than either gems or azulyte; most metal and stone regions also have nearby processing stations and/or access to transportation (cobalt being the major exception that leaps to mind). Once more crystalshapers become active, the added infrastructure will make things a little easier.

[Goriax]

As long as there's a gemworking station nearby tricut gems aren't all that bad once you have everything figured out. It might be nice if there were more crystal shapers in strategic spots but I'm making do without.

like, um, making a Crystal Shaper mandatory for making a Lattice instead of a Gemworking Bench...

I don't know if that rumor is true but it makes a lot of sense. Right now a crystal shaper is the only machine not needed for any final combine.

So yes, it would be making it mandetory, in the sense that a gemworking bench is mandetory now. Since for the immediately previous step you had to focus crystals I don't think it's all that bad if they change it -- other then the fact that I don't like them changing things without a good reason since people make plans based on the way things are.

But if they're going to make a change, they should do it ASAP before too many people have built their lairs based on the current situation. It would suck to build your lair without a crystal shaper because it isn't needed for any final combines and you've figured the logistics and decided you only needed chambers for final combines -- and then have TG float in and change things after you've gone to a lot of work and have no place left where you can shoehorn in a crystal shaper.

[Image]

Although it does take a lot of time, considering a dragon doesn't have to keep switching schools for crafting, I am quite happy at this time with the 2 uncut of each tier to make the tri-cut gems. Compare this to a biped plot. Either you need lots of different crafters or you need to gain many levels to do the entire thing yourself and many materials as well.

Not quite true, unless you are L100 Dragon Crafter you need to switch school between crafter and Lairshaper to get all the XP. [:)]

Lattice andMaelstone requires 320 raw pieces each to place one. Flowstone requires 360. Yes, that is way too much. Not to mention that those pieces, 3 and 4different ones, are often placed all over the world and not always close to machines and/or gates. ThenI remember thatbiped buildingsonly needs40 rawpieces (8 and 9 times less) of the same material to do the same. It gets to be a little frustrating. Doing a Hall now, I need 616 Latticeor 98,560 raw pieces (73,920 raw gems).How many disk trips is that? [;)]
Yes, a break on the number of gems would help a little and even on the rest too.:)

Image, offto make 980 Maelstone.

[Ghwerig]

I have been busting my butt working on the lair and it is a very time consuming task. It isn't just tri-cuts that take a lot, everything takes a lot.

I don't mind the tri-cuts so much, but I didn't know about the gemworking bench instead of the crystalshaper. I already built a crystalshaping chamber and completed in my lair.

But what is killing me is the portal fees with the tarbash disk. To portal back through a racial town is costing me 1 silver per portal. I have spent hundreds of silver already in the short time that I have been working the lair school. I did some of the math on the components required for my T2 Hall. Just for the Rough Maelstone requirements I needed 19600 bronze bars and 9800 dim essence orbs. If you look at lvl 100 capacity, of about 1750ish bars or orbs per trip that is a lot of portal time.

Image, since I am lvl 100 crafter I didn't think about the other xp.

[imported_Lycaunoss]

I just had another look at intermediate resources and they actually all require the same number of resources. The difference is lodestones and cast stones need a lower level processed resource plus a raw resource ie 2 essence/ slabs+ 2 bricks/bars ( 4 ore/slabs).

I guess the difference is mostly psychological, that and the fact that corridors, which everyone has to do a lot of, take twice the number of lattices as they do flowstones or maelstones.

/sigh....they're still depressing to do.

It's definitely pshchological. That's why devs and bi-ped crafters think we are crazy. They are not doing it. I will also submit that anyone who isn't actually building a lair will not understand either. That's my problem with the way that xp is distributed. It's not that there isn't a reward it's that it doesn't feel rewarding.

[Tantalyr]

To me, the way lairshaping experience is gained and/or distributed between building construction units and applying them isn't much of an issue, since at some point every dragon who puts much effort into the school will hit level 100 in it.

The long-term issue, it seems to me, is how much effort (and time and resources) it takes to actually build out a lair. After you hit 100 lairshaper, you will still have to do the same tedious work to construct your lair . . . .

[Goriax]

I try to say positive things but I guess I need to say this:

After spending the last few weeks working on my lair, and having most of the last weekoff with lots of time to work on my lair, I have to agree something is lacking. I found myself working on it for an hour or two at the most, not being able to stand it anymore, and logging off or hunting for a few hours before I could face it again.

Lairbuilding is not exactly riviting entertainment for me. Maybe it's just me -- I'm not really into crafting after all. The final results are truly awesome and kudos to the TG folkswho did it, but getting there gets old after awhile.

I don't think it's the difficulty or the fact that I have to haul x resources to my lair whereas bipeds only have to haul y resources to their plot. It's just that for me the steps are not inherintly fun like combat is fun. After I've figured out the optimum steps to get something done it's just plodding which is fun for awhile, but eventually gets really old.

Maybe biped construction is equally as unfun for many people. It would explain all the scaffolding I still see around Istaria. In that sense they need to look at ways to make ALL construction more fun -- dragon and biped. Or maybe it's just thatconstruction isn't for everyone and if construction isn't what turns your crank you should look for other things in the game which are more fun. That might be me, since I still like to do combat even though my dragon is maxxed and the extra experience is worthless to me.

I don't think the answer is to make things easier -- if the steps now aren't fun, making them easier is unlikely to suddenly make them riviting entertainment. They'll just be easier unfun steps. The actual process of construction (or anything else in the game which takes significant time) should be fun in and of itself. It could even be that a solution might involve making things harder. But I don't know what the solution is; I'm just giving my reaction.

As-is, I'll probably work on the first couple levels of my lair half heartedly spending less and less time on it, meanwhile I"llmost likely be spendingan ever larger fraction of my time on things I find more fun.

Again, this is just my reaction and I've known all along I"m not really into crafting in HZ. Maybe others are finding this fun and if so then that's cool. However, at least in my case, it's NOT about making it easier -- I don't want it easier.

It's about fun and looking FORWARD to working on my lair instead of dreading it.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Maybe others are finding this fun and if so then that's cool. However, at least in my case, it's NOT about making it easier -- I don't want it easier.

Nothing that isn't fun should take you so many hours to complete...

Making it 'easier' as in reducing trip numbers, or resource numbers, is exactly HOW you make it "more fun" because you see you results "faster."

Taking something that isn't fun after its 5 or 6th hour of reptition and requiring you to do it for 300 hours isn't making it more fun - its making it so 'unfun' we're losing players over it.

So actually making it easier does raise the fun factor, by lowering its opposite 'the futility' feeling. :)

As you said, doing something for an hour or two is all you can take (me as well), now wouldn' t it be nice if after an hour or two you were say 1/4 or 1/2 done with a single chamber so that you really felt you got somewhere..

instead of say 8% further along...where you're banging your head ont he keyboard at how slow and mindnumbing it is?

[Dragoniade]

How to make it fun?
Cut the ressource requirement by 4.
Allow player to customize their room, thus requiring more work over time.

Build a plain lair with basic storage and no waterfall.
Add a water fall later for X more ressource.
Add more storage upgrade for Y more ressource.
Change storage type for Z more ressource.

Stuff like that.

Right now. It's dig dig dig. Make a hole. Dig dig dig. Make another hole. Nothing customizable, nothing to build that is decoration.

[Goriax]

Right now with a lair you spend hours and hours of work to get a chamber. The chamber constitues a "reward" for your effort. It may be a nice chamber and when you get it you're glad you got it. It may even be worth the effortbut (except for corridors which can be done quickly) there's an aweful long dry spell before you get that reward. Until then you don't get anything but drudgery which gets really old after awhile and is not particularly fun once you've figured out the best way to do it and then done it for 3 or 4 or 10 trips.

Contrast that with adventuring in which you get lots of very small rewards all the time (dead critters, loot, maybe a hoard drop, maybe a tech comp, formulas, techs, all sorts of things). Furthermore there's some variety since the fights tend to vary in small or large ways (you got an add or three, a named shows up, or you just had a string of good or bad luck). The rewards aren't nearly as nice as a permanent lair chamber of your very own, but they're a lot more frequent -- none of this toiling with nothing to show for it for days or weeks. After even a fairly short adventuring session you can catalog the various loot dropsyou acquired.

Ideally, what would be needed I think is to break up the construction of each lair chamber (and probably each biped structure if the same holds true with them) into lots of little steps and after each one there is some sort of visible progress. Instead of working and working until suddenly *poof* your chamber springs into being full blown, it would be nice if you could see it gradually take shape. Perhaps once you've done 20% of the work you get a very crude roughed in version of the part nearest where you're working. Once you hit 40% you get more, and so on until at 100% it's ready for use. Perhaps some of thelater stages may even give partial utility. Perhaps at 60% completion of a lair or hall you get storage capacity equal to half what it would be once competed. That way, you get more little rewards as you work and with just a few hours' work you could see some visible progress.

Unfortunately, that particular approach is probably not practical since in it's crudest implementation it would multiply by 5 the number of art assets needed (at least the part for showing visible progress). It would be nice if a few generic templates could be applied to each chamber to give it a "partially complete" appearance. There might be a 20% template which can be applied to any lair chamber to give it a "20% completed look" and so on. At this point it starts to depend on the capability of their engine which I only know from inference. Don't ask me the details of how that could be done because I have no clue but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't come up with something. Perhaps "template" would be the wrong word. Perhaps "algorithm" would be closer. I don't know. I don't have the full answer or even if there is one, but something along those lines would do wonders if it could be done.

Of course they could give partial utility without any art assets (although that might be wierd accessing your hall under construction from the corridor outside since all it looks like is a rock wall) but, as I said, I don't have all the answers.

Also, I liked the idea of being able to add little dress up things to your chambers. That's another situation of smaller rewards which are more frequent. Perhaps when they introduce biped furniture they could introduce a bunch of little things which would be treated as furniture by the engine and which would allow dragons to dress up their lairs.