Feedback about Monster - Gruoks!

[mbaucco]

Gruoks are sick. I have tried killing them as a Mage, a druid, and a tank, and unless they are 7 to 10 levels below me they kick my butt. I think the problem is that they can pretty much spam their special attacks and do WAY too much damage compared to their level. Even my tank character (Half-Giant Warrior in plate) can not take more than a few hits, even though I have a few cleric so I can heal a bit.

I think they either need to do a lot less damage or have a lot fewer hit points so they can be killed faster before they tear people up.

Thanks!
Matt

[Narkano]

Gruoks are dangerous since they have the berserker's rage ability as well as a bleed attack to cause further damage over time. They have a reputation for being dangerous, especially if you run afoul ofthree or more. But I do not consider them that dangerous beasts of your description.In factI recently foughtthem tolevel my small dwarven warrior/cleric with both classes and at an even level to get their trophies for further xp.Sometimes even two at a time. They are somewhat dangerous, yes, but Iencountered no further problems fighting them.

Youuseup to dateweapons and armor perhaps with some techs?

- Narkano

[mbaucco]

Nope, and finding teched armor and weapons at my level is tough. I do not think lower level mobs should be balanced against experienced, multi-classed alts. New players are still learning the ropes as I am, and will not always be able to get the best equipment.

Currently I am 15 war/4 cleric/10 mage with bronze plate and a blighted maul. I also carry vestia potions and use buffs. I think I am pretty representative of a new player who has done some homework and checks the consigner frequently.

-Matt

[Narkano]

Sorry, but you have multiclassed alreadyand it is definitely impossible (and quite boring) to make all kinds of mobs with a similar rating alsoan exactly similar challenge. It can't be done and it shouldn't be done. Gruoks are known to go berserk. If you consider them too tough for your chosen class or combination of classes don't hunt themuntil you've become stronger. There are plenty of other mobs to hunt.

And as I already said with the other thread all stats and hitpoints for monsters are calculated having teched equipment and training points in mind, that player charactersare able touse to provide a challenge toplayers with better gear as well as parties of players. If your equipment is up to date and has some basic techs you should be able to handle things well.

If you could handle the most dangerous (for you)mobs of Lesser Aradoth with unteched and outdated equipment what challengewould be left for a player with teched up to dategear and perhaps a few groupmates?

As I already statedHorizons is a multiplayer game and if youtry to doand fight everything on your own and without proper armor, weapons and spells then you tend to have a somewhat rougher time andneed tobetricky moreoften to reach a goal. But don't expect you're able tofight your way through allmobs with ease.

- Narkano

[imported_tjl]

Not to get into a huge discussion Narkano, but grouks are too powerful for thier rating.
my level 15 spiritist cannot kill a 15 grouk. it is impossible without using every single ability i have... most of which are on 5 min timers. This is with teched spells, and a full suit of cloth armor.

for tier 1, the expectation that mobs will be fighting againts fully teched opponents is absurd. I see a lot of new mages still in thier training tunics.

Let the real enemy (the undead hoards) be the difficult and rewarding mobs. simple animal creatures are way too powerful and way too rewarding in the game... and that can almost apply across all tiers.

[Loacalea]

They seem to attack faster then any other mob the are one of the most dangerious.
Mine dragon can take down atleast half hp of the Mithril name befor haveing to flee but name piggy she lucky to get 1/4 of it health.
Those the only two expert name mine dragon have trouble with.
Maybe they should lower grouk attacks hit by a little.

[mbaucco]

Sorry, Narkano, but I disagree. New players will not know much about techs, multiclassing, and effective fighting techniques for HZ. A truly new player won't know much of this stuff, and many do not even know how to get on the chat channels to ask for help. To balance a T1 mob just like a T4 mob would do nothing but drive away customers.

Also, the rating system needs to be meaningful. If I can not trust it I will not know what to fight and I will get frustrated. If the manual says a rating 15 player can kill a rating 14 monster most of the time I want it to be true. I don't want it to be true half of the time.

Gruoks are broken compared to every other monster I have encountered. Any gruok is MUCH tougher than undead, ogres, wolves, etc. I have tried casters, healers and tanks and so far it is true for every character type.

Finally, a reasonably accurate system would not destroy the challenge of fighting monsters. It hasn't in other MMoRPGs and it won't in HZ either. Mob balance needs to take inexperience into account, and the monster balance should assume a more experiened player as well as a more experienced character as they level up, rather than assuming that all players have an equal amount of knowledge.

-Matt

[Dragonboy]

My experience with grouk is that as mage they are easy below lvl 10...
Above that they are more of a challenge...
As cleric they are also easy since you have better armor and heals...
Above simular as mage...

As draggie I also had no problem with them, so at least the low levels are easie, but I do agree that the winter grouk can be tricky if you are not carefull...

Any mob is tricky if you dont know how to aproach them and attack them... [:)]

[mbaucco]

It isn't really the gruoks from 1 to 10, it is the ones around Sslanis that seem bad, probably because the lower level pigs don't have quite so many special powers far as I can tell.

[Dhalin]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.

Nerf these. Please. There's no reason for a freaking PIG to be this strong. Its a .... PIG. What next, are we going to see killer bunny rabbits next? Puh-leaze. If you want to make a STRONG mob, make it something Fierce, like, a Bear, or a Wolf.... but a Pig...? A PIG!? Come on, geez.... Ruxus look much much more dangerous, but do only a fraction of the damage, and I think its stupid. If Anything, Ruxus and Gruoks should be reversed. Ruxus are HUGE with BIG teeth.... surely they could actually hurt you. But a freaking little piggie? Geez.

Its totally unrealistic and just stupid. I see no reason why pigs need to be this strong. They are stronger than SKELETONS sometimes.

--Dhalin

[Sigi1985]

It's not stupid, pigs ARE strong and dangerous, also in real life, but I guess the only pig you've ever seen is a porkchop?
Leave those pigs alone if you can't handle them. Or is it just mindless killing you want? The first time you fight a gruok you maybe surprised - and killed - but after that you know when to run don't you? As a new player I had a lot of fun killing them with a friend and occasionally tried one at my own. And it was difficult, carefully pull one and kill it before it killed you. Leave them the way they are, they provide a chalange, and when you grow big and strong you go back and take revenge! [;)]

[Narkano]

It's only a pig? But you know that not even a hungry leopard would go for a wart hog from the front? They are really nasty beasts and can do severe damage with their tusks. Therefore evenpredatory big cats as strong as aleopard try to catch them from behind or go for the young.

Ican see no reason why Lesser Aradoth should not have at least one kind of mob that provides a little challenge and cannot be killed without thought while using some below average gear.

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=115784

- Narkano

[imported_tjl]

It's only a pig? But you know that not even a hungry leopard would go for a wart hog from the front? They are really nasty beasts and can do severe damage with their tusks. Therefore evenpredatory big cats as strong as aleopard try to catch them from behind or go for the young.

this isn't national geographic, its an online game.
the trophy hunters ask for thier tusks, so all classes should have a chance at killing them. like I said in my previous post, leave the really hard stuff for the undead. make certain undead mobs unkillable by certain classes. they are the enemy. the rest of the mobs should be for comps, and decent xp (but not great xp.)

[mbaucco]

It isn't even Gruoks per se, it is the fact that their rating is misleading. A rating 15 gruok is way tougher than other rating 15 monster, to the point where you have to add at least 5 to the rating to get an accurate number.

You would not necessarily have to nerf gruoks, just give them a more realistic rating and reduce their current rapid spawn rate. However, I am still not convinced that gruoks were meant to be as lethal as they are.

[Dragoniade]

One of our friend fattened a boar for his holiday meal. Once it was fat enough, he tried to know it down with a blow on the head (don't ask why, because you may not like how pigs are prepared) but he didn't hit hard enough... He had to run for his life out the pen and he wasn't able to get close to it afteward, and he got to get help to take it down.

Yes. That's how pigs are. They look all cute and weak, but anger one and you better get out of the way if you don't want any bruise.

With that said, I say leave the Gruok as they are. Some monster are made easy for some, and harder for others. Some monsters are easy for everyone (golems), while others are also harder for everyone.

[Dhalin]

Well, at least change their rating.

A mob THAT hard should give more experience than an easier mob.

Its all about Reward vs Effort. Why should I kill a Lv15 Gruok that fights like a Lv20 Ruxus, and get Lv15 exp? The answer: It should not be.

If you fight a HARD mob, make it give exp if you do manage to kill the stupid thing. If you wanna keep the grouks' challenge level, sure go ahead. Just increase the rating on those gruoks so they are A). Not misleading, B). They give you fair exp. vs. effort ratio.

And I think it should work the opposite: Nerf the stupid chickens' ratings. Its stupid that they give so much exp since you can kill them so easily.

--Dhalin

[Loacalea]

Bunny cute and adurable I like that.
Maybe we should have some bunnys they seem cute.

Yes we should get much more exp. from piggy.
The creature that's are much more harder to kill then normal reguardless of there rating should give more exp.I agree fully.