You want quests?

[Death-knell]

Well I had the chance to do a little beta for DDO (D&D online. WWW.ddo.com)

I did a few of their quests and was blown away, true D&D style quests. No go kill x number of kobolds, but venture into this dungeon and retrieve this set of ancient daggers. You wander the halls trying to avoid traps, disarm them if you can. Graphics are great, items are unique in appearance and are well done.

Alas, there are no dragon characters....cries.
All dungeons are instanced, this made me cringe at first because my rig had problems with EQ2s instanced area. But surprisingly turbines engine and my computer seem to be friends.

Looks like turbine did artwork and such first and is slowly adding content.

The only drawback or the thing I don't like is the need to group as you go up. you can do the first few levels solo but dungeons become increasingly demanding and not doable for solo characters. But the LFG system is very well thought out, you select looking for group from social panel and put a brief blurb like, "newb paladin looking for group for waterworks" and then you get the LFG tag above your head(a pair of faces in a gold circle) and as of yet it is very easy to find a group.

[UlteriorModem]

At the risk of starting a flame war......

I also played in the beta preview.

Dont get me wrong. Under the right circumstances this title could be very enjoyable with a close group of friends who say meet on a certain night to play a little dnd now and then.

Dont expect to be able to log in, find a pick up group, and have an enjoyable experience. Yes it can be done but at least in its current state it is the excption rather than the rule.

It was enjoyable at first but some things wore on me.

Repeating the same quests over each time you roll a new charecter. By that I mean exactly the same quests. Same dungeon, same mosnters, same traps, same glowing treasure chests. Only thing random was the loot in those chests.

Forced grouping. Once you leave noobie land you will not be able to play without a group of 4 or more and one of those had ******** sure better be a healer. There is nothing else to do but join a group and run a dungeon.

Lastley, the barrels. Every dungeon is stocked with Barrels, Boxes etc. These "objects" are destructable. Somtimes loot falls out of them. Coins, weapons etc. Well you can imagine what this leads to. Thats right ... a frenzyed barrel smashing riot really takes away from the DnD experience for me.

To sum it up. Electronics Botique screwed up and gave me a second 10 day beta preview for free. I played it (the second preview) for only one or two days... the beta license expired last week.

[Death-knell]

Well when I said lack of content thats what I was referring to. I've done the newbie quests 3 times now and am still finding stuff I missed. The barrels are a bit of a pain, it just takes a little leadership to sort a order out for smashing and loot distribution. A healer is actually only a requirement for one dungeon so far, due to the bosses being quite overpowered.

So far everytime I get off the island and to the harbor. I bind at the tavern and receive invites almost immediately. Never have I had a problem finding a group once there. Most I decline since the first 3 quests are pretty easy if you shot it right. City itself I've been able to solo pretty well, even though it does require a death or 2 sometimes.

And like I said I'm not a big fan of forced grouping, but I'm going to give the game a chance.

[Death-knell]

and now that I think of it

What game doesn't have repeating newb quests?

EQ2 does, this game does, when you can find one. So what game has randomized quests?

[LaughingOtter]

To borrow an analogy from David, what's the difference between "Bring me a cup" and "Bring me the Holy Grail"? Answer: A lot of lore, a lot of storyline, and usually a bunch of things to kill. The "Go get two daggers" quest Death-Knell mentioned is a FedEx quest with a couple of kill tasks added to it. The traps are a form of kill task (a hazard which you can defeat or try to avoid) and the rest is destructable fluff.

There is no argument that a rich and involving questis more than asimple, straightforward task. It's also more than aFedEx task that takes place in a dungeon.

[Death-knell]

figures he would make such a basic analogy. But running through a dungeon working on traps, puzzles and riddles that actually require a little brain power are much preferable to reading a bunch of lore they contradict 5 minutes later.

Its funny his company puts out a bunch of quests that have this big lore right up and then you get nothing but a counter to fullfill.

And these quests for instance recovering the ancient daggers does come with lore if you choose to read the dialog box before just clicking through it.

[UlteriorModem]

running through a dungeon working on traps, puzzles and riddles that actually require a little brain power

The first time yes but after you already know where the traps are, how the puzzles work, and the correct answer for the riddle the "challange" is negated.

Besides "running" through a dungeon should be a fatal mistake. It should be a dangerous place where every step should be carefully considered.

I fully expect the game and its... participants will become much better a month or two after release once on the power gamers / kiddies move on to the next big MMO. It will also help tremdously if you can find a good regular group / guild.

[Death-knell]

well I'm guessing you don't have much experience as a DM/GM. Running is a relative term applied to going through the dungeon. its not literal......

And there isn't a MMORPG whose quests are randomized. Once you've been through it its pretty much as it was each and every time.

Now guys don't get me wrong, I'm not some newb whose only been playing HZ a short time. I started mid-beta and have been working through this character since december 9th 2003 at 2:09P central time. I've been through the shard combining and every other change. I kind of miss my dragon druid/cleric.

But I'm also a great fan of the good ole table top get your friends together and adventure. And HZ has shown me it is possible to get a group of folks together who can become your friends and allies to play out an adventure. So DDO to me is the next step in the evolution. Sure theres problems and issues....hell HZ still has quite a few that exist 2 years after its inception.

[UlteriorModem]

well I'm guessing you don't have much experience as a DM/GM. Running is a relative term applied to going through the dungeon. its not literal.......

Ill let the first part slide as it simply is not true. Besides the term Im most familiar with is a "Dungeon Crawl".

Yes I realize you were using a phrase. But alas most of the groups I ended up with in DDO were indeed running (zerging) through the dungeons. They felt compelled to smash that crate before anyone else did to grab the shineys that for some reason had been left in them. They dont take there time. Why should they ? They have already been through this dungeon 4 times. They know exactly where, how many, etc etc.

I was just trying to make a point (shrug).

[imported_Frith-Rae]

heh, sounds like the end game instancing of World of Warcraft - but without having to get to level 60 to start the repeats...

ANd yea, my thoughts are in the OTHER thread about this - mostly about needing more content than the 130 quests theyhave now which leads to, well what others are talking about here :).

But I'm sure it will have its community, even though I chalk it up to another "could have done so much with it but didn't" license (ala Star Wars, LOTR, etc).

[Death-knell]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Death-Knell wrote: well I'm guessing you don't have much experience as a DM/GM. Running is a relative term applied to going through the dungeon. its not literal.......

Ill let the first part slide as it simply is not true. Besides the term Im most familiar with is a "Dungeon Crawl".

Yes I realize you were using a phrase. But alas most of the groups I ended up with in DDO were indeed running (zerging) through the dungeons. They felt compelled to smash that crate before anyone else did to grab the shineys that for some reason had been left in them. They dont take there time. Why should they ? They have already been through this dungeon 4 times. They know exactly where, how many, etc etc.

I was just trying to make a point (shrug).

Well its been my experience in DDO if you talk to the group for a sentence or 2 you can find out if they are going to adventure the dungeon or speed date it. Never had a problem saying, "no thanks" to a group. I must have been on a good server "vadalis" because I would walk into a tavern and get at least 2 requests while resting to group. My first question to the group was what dungeon they were doing, second was as to what they were doing in the dungeon.

My only issue so far is voice chat, some of the groups require it.

[Jaraiden]

The subject says, "You want quests?"

How is that quest maker program coming along? Should be done. Many using it now?

[Death-knell]

The subject says, "You want quests?"

How is that quest maker program coming along? Should be done. Many using it now?

LOL....But a title is just ahead withouta body, so you really should read the OPs topic before hijacking.

You could probably post something on the quest maker program in general and they'd let it be.

[Tryagain]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Jaraiden wrote:The subject says, "You want quests?"

How is that quest maker program coming along? Should be done. Many using it now?

LOL....But a title is just ahead withouta body, so you really should read the OPs topic before hijacking.

You could probably post something on the quest maker program in general and they'd let it be.

Tulga has a " speak no evil hear no evil " way of doing things. if nothing has been said about it in sometime its dead and off the table. Its how they have always done things.

[Tryagain]

As far as DDO ... they have accomplished what they set out to do. Each quest is handcrafted with all its assests in true D&D style. Sorry Horizons will never have anything that even comes close to this kind of content even with Mr Beagle writing quests. They just do not have know how nor expertise and more importantly the resources to pull it off. Not to mention that the DDO combat system blows Horizons system out of the water and there is no lag ;) .

But then again DDO and Horizons cater to different crowds all together. There isnt any crafting in DDO and Dragons are meant to be quested after and slain not played. Makes balancing things much easier.

[AmonGwareth]

The Quest Editor is not dead. It is in limited testing by a few players.

[Jaraiden]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Jaraiden wrote: The subject says, "You want quests?"

How is that quest maker program coming along? Should be done. Many using it now?LOL....But a title is just ahead withouta body, so you really should read the OPs topic before hijacking.

Thank you for that insight. And yes, I should have done a search on "quest" to see the status (among others).

As you have read the OP compared DDO's quests to Hz's. So, naturally, the Quest Editor would be related, no just a post only onDDO's quest system.

Thanks Amon for the update.

[Tryagain]

someone copy and qoute Amon ;).

Might want to put that tidbit in the design preview as a side note.

[LaughingOtter]

Each quest is handcrafted with all its assests in true D&D style.

Yeah - all 130 of them.... Although, technically, every quest in every MMO is handcrafted. DDO has 130 instanced dungeon crawls, and the only thing you can do is go through them...over and over, each time exactly like the first. You can't just grab some friends & head off looking for some mayhem; you only get to decide which of those 130 dungeon crawls you want to go through this time.

So, savor those 130 dungeon crawls - oh, that's right, you can't - you have to grind and grind and grind on them in order to level. No xp for anything but jumping through exactly the same hoops, over and over again.

This isn't D&D - it's Dragon's Lair with forced grouping.

[UlteriorModem]

So, savor those 130 dungeon crawls - oh, that's right, you can't - you have to grind and grind and grind on them in order to level. No xp for anything but jumping through exactly the same hoops, over and over again.

My point exactly.

Got to admit though the combat is better [;)]