To Charter or Not: Discussion Thread

[C`gan]

Basically, if those of us who don't want a charter don't go to the meetings to avoid it, but still want to contribute to community involvement, someone else is going to be all "leet" and take credit for something they did not A. find, or B. Build. All the praise and congrats and back slaps, go to all those "teams" even if those of us who think it's stupid and work anyway, aren't on them! I also know of one world project that was not found by the person who claimed they found it. They were told in a public chat channel, and then posted it as if they'd found it. Nothing but leet crap.

Hmmm, before passing judgement on me, my practices, or my doings, let me make a few things clear.

1. All structures that are not owned by a single person, guild, or plot are community structures (called world projects).

2. There is an open channel called WorldProjects to discuss those projects, point out new ones, put up info about completion on ones being built, and to get people involved in building within the community, not just their own guilds or personal properties.

3. A list is maintained here on the forums for all persons of the community to view, update, add to, change, and make use of. It is located here: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=78442

4. Credit for who did what on the build is not put out often at all because, quite honestly, there are too many people who either process, run, or place units individually to be accounted for. Even on the cenotaph builds, when the final list was attempted to be figured out as to who had helped build it, it took time to sort it all out and many of us think there were more names not added there that should have been, thus slighting those people. It is easier to say the sum entirety of the Order shard community built it.

5. Reports given at community meetings are about structures found, in process, and completed so that as many people can be notified as possible about the structures' locations, requirements, or availability.

6. Before the claim of elitism is heralded about the WorldProjects Team, people should interact with those there. It's not about who does what. It's not about who gets the glory and who's left out. It's about getting the world projects completed for the enjoyment and benefit of all Order shard. Everyone is invited to participate. Everyone is invited to the grand openings. Everyone is invited to spread the word. Everyone is invited to help find projects.

Now, while I cannot be on every build because quite honestly some of them would keep me killed (level 20 warrior), I do believe that what people complete whether they are within the WP channel or not should be told to the community as a whole so they may all use it.

And if you're talking about the build I think you are that I

did not A. find, or B. Build

once it was mentioned that it had been found, I took the conversation about it to a private chat to get the info to post for everyone to see, not to claim credit for it. Many people do not like running their computers in windows mode. Mine actually deals with Horizons better that way. I keep the project list opened while I'm playing for quick reference. In a case such as this, it also allows me to post projects faster for earlier shard involvement, something for which I am continually grateful to our shard's members. Please note, there are no listings on the project listin the forum as to who discovered them. Who finds them is not an issue. That they get completed for the use and enjoyment of the shard is.

I don't want credit. I don't want fame. I don't want any of what you're proscribing. My one reason for being in Istaria is to build.

But this is all a sidetrack of the discussion on the charter and I've rambled on enough.

[Imayo]

Thebest reasons I see for naming certain individuals as leaders of a given group is to make updates at the meetings and coordinating group functions a bit easier.


To make someone responsible for giving it a little organization. They aren't "Leaders" as in they can tell people what to do and force them to do it. They are all like little secretaries [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img], keeping track of what's been done, what needs to be done, and making sure it gets out to those who give a crap.

Perhaps people would be more comfortable with the term Coordinator rather than Leader.

[Imayo]

As a statement to those who claim or complain that so-and-so is never online....... Unless you are on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year and are completely conscious during all that time (an absolute impossibility) and watching ALL chat channels to see who is there at ALL times, you have no idea when a person is or isn't on or how long they have been on during a given day or even what they are doing. And saying you have them on the friends lists to see when they login, doesn't work either as if they have themselves set to invisiable, you will never see them login or out.

Not everyone plays at the same time of day or has the same amount of time to spend playing the game. Just because you don't personally see them online while you are conscious andpaying attention to the channels, does not mean that they are not actually there.

Nor does it mean that being on one of these teams means that 100% of their game time must be spent on those tasks. A lot of you seem to forget that they are here to play the game as well.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Perhaps people would be more comfortable with the term Coordinator rather than Leader.

Hey perfectly fine with me..as I said..I don't care how the community implements it or calls what who where when...

..I just htink there needs to be *something* in place. Call them all Slaves if you want to. :)

Btw, the "team" refuse to anyone who hangs out in the channel as far as I'm concerned, or helps out with anything the channel is doing. World Project "team" consists of pepole who go into the world project and help out with world projects - you never have to attend a meeting nor pay any attention to the charter to do so.

And when the meetings aren't having to deal with this stuff (and the meeting only has to deal with this stuff when someoen objects and brings it up) then its exactly what you're talking about Fran - exchange of information, discussions people want to have with the community, and done.

The reason we're talking about the charter now is because people wanted it redone. If noone complained, you wouldn't have to hear about it now..

though you still dont have to hear about it (you don' thave to read these threads or go to the meetings to DO ANYTHING AT ALL) ...it doesn't apply to you if you don't want it to...so I'm not sure what you're so peeved off about.

[C`gan]

though you still dont have to hear about it (you don' thave to read these threads or go to the meetings to DO ANYTHING AT ALL) ...it doesn't apply to you if you don't want it to...so I'm not sure what you're so peeved off about.

Here's an idea for those of you who don't want involved with any sort of charter thing. Come in to the community meeting, stay for the beginning reports, and close the chat tab when it gets on about this stuff.

[Fyrentennimara]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fyrentennimara wrote:Basically, if those of us who don't want a charter don't go to the meetings to avoid it, but still want to contribute to community involvement, someone else is going to be all "leet" and take credit for something they did not A. find, or B. Build. All the praise and congrats and back slaps, go to all those "teams" even if those of us who think it's stupid and work anyway, aren't on them! I also know of one world project that was not found by the person who claimed they found it. They were told in a public chat channel, and then posted it as if they'd found it. Nothing but leet crap.

Hmmm, before passing judgement on me, my practices, or my doings, let me make a few things clear.

1. All structures that are not owned by a single person, guild, or plot are community structures (called world projects).

2. There is an open channel called WorldProjects to discuss those projects, point out new ones, put up info about completion on ones being built, and to get people involved in building within the community, not just their own guilds or personal properties.

3. A list is maintained here on the forums for all persons of the community to view, update, add to, change, and make use of. It is located here: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=78442

4. Credit for who did what on the build is not put out often at all because, quite honestly, there are too many people who either process, run, or place units individually to be accounted for. Even on the cenotaph builds, when the final list was attempted to be figured out as to who had helped build it, it took time to sort it all out and many of us think there were more names not added there that should have been, thus slighting those people. It is easier to say the sum entirety of the Order shard community built it.

5. Reports given at community meetings are about structures found, in process, and completed so that as many people can be notified as possible about the structures' locations, requirements, or availability.

6. Before the claim of elitism is heralded about the WorldProjects Team, people should interact with those there. It's not about who does what. It's not about who gets the glory and who's left out. It's about getting the world projects completed for the enjoyment and benefit of all Order shard. Everyone is invited to participate. Everyone is invited to the grand openings. Everyone is invited to spread the word. Everyone is invited to help find projects.

Now, while I cannot be on every build because quite honestly some of them would keep me killed (level 20 warrior), I do believe that what people complete whether they are within the WP channel or not should be told to the community as a whole so they may all use it.

And if you're talking about the build I think you are that I [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fyrentennimara wrote:did not A. find, or B. Build once it was mentioned that it had been found, I took the conversation about it to a private chat to get the info to post for everyone to see, not to claim credit for it. Many people do not like running their computers in windows mode. Mine actually deals with Horizons better that way. I keep the project list opened while I'm playing for quick reference. In a case such as this, it also allows me to post projects faster for earlier shard involvement, something for which I am continually grateful to our shard's members. Please note, there are no listings on the project listin the forum as to who discovered them. Who finds them is not an issue. That they get completed for the use and enjoyment of the shard is.

I don't want credit. I don't want fame. I don't want any of what you're proscribing. My one reason for being in Istaria is to build.

But this is all a sidetrack of the discussion on the charter and I've rambled on enough.

First off, I didn't pass judgement on anyone! Second, I pointed out the last line of that post because it speaks volumes about how the community percieves this farse of leaders and charters. You are right, it is a community effort, and therefore should never have had a leader anyway.

I know all about your posts about the projects and their progress, which is fine, if you choose to post those, be my guest, it still doesn't deserve a leadership title, not in any way, shape or form.

If credit is truly left out, then leadership should be as well. And I know that's garbage, because I see the praise all the time in Marketplace and other channels, "Hey nice job, ***, ***, ***, ***, for finishing world project yada yada." If someone contributes and doesn't say one thing to you about it, it doesn't get recognized, and fame and glory have nothing at all to do with it. There doesn't need to be all this leet hype behind World Projects, they get done, "Nice job, Order Server!" That's all that ever needs to be said, period. Reports are just that, reports, and there doesn't need to be any one person in charge of that report. The meeting moderator can ask for information about WP status and anyone can give that, there doesn't need to be a person specifically appointed to keep track of WP!

I also never passed judgement on anyone from Wp team, since I think it's **************** that we even have to have a WP team, New Player team, etc. By the way, the fact that we have these teams at all, screams elitism. Gotta have a specific team for World Projects, and one for New Players, because Heaven forbid, someone actually takes it upon themselves to build or stock a connie without there being a team. This stuff will take care of itself, and even if it didn't, it still doesn't warrant some kind of Order Server police and emergency team!

I have no beef whatsoever, with posting here about WP, my beef is with this stupid charter and the teams attached to it.

And no, you're wrong, the project I know if was Dragon related. And that's all I'm going to say. It makes no difference. The fact still remains, that this so called order Server government wasn't asked for(at least not by me), isn't needed, and needs to be dropped like a hot potato! After all of this, you really think those meetings are going to be a packed house?! I think not. Not with people who enjoy this game as a game, instead of a second freaking reality!

I don't really care who does the work and who doesn't. And I have no issue with the team "leader" not being online, being online, we still don't need one, never did, never will.

I asked for people to read Archebold's last line, because it's very true. Look at the example we're setting for all those potential new players to Order, sitting in here like a bunch of over medicated politians, arguing "To govern, or not to govern, that is the question!" Wow, I can see Chaos' number shooting up as we speak. Who in the hell would want to come to our server with all the drama on it?! Who would want to deal with "This month's new team"? Heck, next ya'll will be electing a danged President! President *** of the Order server! Let's all play "Hail to the Chief"!


I shouldn't have even said that.....I can see lightbulbs dinging as we speak.......[:@]