A Few Comments on the New Event

[Tantalyr]

Let me say initially that I truly appreciate the hard work the devs put into events. Both their frequency (about every six weeks on average) and their creativity deserve well-earned plaudits.

That said, I have some (hopefully constructive) criticisms of the latest event . . .

First off, it appears to be limited to the highest level players. Unlike the recently expired blighted festival treant event--which had blighted treants of all tiers so any level player could participate--the latest event beasties are all level 100+. So, any player lower than level 90 simply cannot effectively participate in the excitement. Indeed, given the incredible special attacks that even the non-boss beasties wield (like multiple Critical Attack strikes), I wouldn't recommend anyone under level 95 to try the quest.

Second, the placement of the level 100 Abominations and archers (and God knows what else) right at the Old Oaks/Mithril's Anvil area seems a poor choice of location for a couple of reasons. Initially, the number of structures built in that area already is a lag-builder, and the placement of multiple, multiple mobs there greatly adds to the already existent lag, thus rendering combat as much an exercise in fighting lag as fighting beasties. Moreover--and more disconcerting--I cannot imagine how the poor owners of plots in those two communities can access their plots (and storage buildings) without multiple death points. Fortunately, I do not own a plot in that area, but I am sure I would be most unhappy if I did. While it's certainly nice for the Old Oaks plot owners that their plot sizes have been substantially increased, the trade-off appears to be that they nevertheless won't be able to get to them until this event is over.

Finally, I would suggest that the devs have engaged in a bit of overkill in designing the event critters. Specifically, the second step of the quest requires the slaying of Draknor, a level 125 boss Kwellen with some 56,000 hit points that has incredible special attacks that SoG, Valkor and Reklar can only dream about. Among others, Draknor has a "Berzerker Barrage" AoE attack that can do upwards of 4,000 damage to all players in the area. Last night on Order it took twenty--count 'em, TWENTY--high level players to take him down, and then with a LOT of death points being suffered by them all. Comparatively, it only takes four or five high level players to take out Valkor, maybe five (or even less) to slay SoG, and perhaps eight to slay Reklar. It makes little sense to me to require twenty or more high level players to slay one critter that is absolutely necessary to complete an event quest.

Allow me to make a few suggestions for future events, then:

1) Events should be accessible and, thus, enjoyed by all tiers of players. As with the blighted festival treants, event beasties should be spawned for every tier of player, including bosses which might necessarily have to be slain to complete the quest (i.e., separate Tier I-VI bosses). The rewards for completing the quest will, of course, increase in value as they increase in tier (e.g., a Tier I "Event Widget" will grant, say, 10 evasion, while a Tier V "Event Widget" will grant 50 evasion), but at least all players can participate at some level in the excitement of the event.

2) Event beasties should be soloable, or at most require two or three players of the same tier to slay. Obviously, the Horizons player base is a diverse one. Some folks live in Australia. Some Americans work the night shift. Their playing hours are radically different from the Midwest 9-to-5ers. And they cannot be expected to put together groups of ten, much less twenty, players in the wee hours of the American morning. These folks would effectively be shut out from completing an event quest if they are required to do so. Take a page from the blighted festival treant event--while these treants were indeed tough, they were soloable mano-a-mano, or at most required but a two-player group.

3) Spawn the event beasties in the wilds, away from towns and player communities. As I mentioned earlier, spawning them near cities and player communities just multiplies lag to no end. And spawning them in or near player communities unfairly penalizes plot owners who simply wish to access their plots.

4) Ensure that the event beasties (and bosses) are set to automatically spawn, not limited to World Master controlled spawns. This was the greatest problem with the blighted festival treant event. If a player wasn't around when a WM spawned the treants (or within a few hours thereafter) because they were sleeping or working the night shift, well they were just SOL. Players' ability to participate in an event, and to complete the quests required in it, should never depend on the working/waking hours of Arizona-based World Masters.

Thanks for listening.

[Senkeleron Fell]

So the Withered Aegis should attack us by threatening some stand of trees in the wilderness?

[Death-knell]

So the Withered Aegis should attack us by threatening some stand of trees in the wilderness?

Thats not what he's saying. If you read the post he is referring to the lag monster tulga keeps using to kill us with.

Challenging mobs are great, but when I go up againast a mob and he gets 5 times the amount of attacks I do just because he's on the server and I'm trying to fight thru the lag because there are too many people and structures in the area. Thats just not right.


PS: If it requires moving the fight somewhere else....so be it!
And yes I feel for the old oaks owners also.

[AA0]

I strongly agree with the mobs spawning in the wild, and being regular spawns (even if rare) not WM spawned. There is so much empty, open space that is never used, why lag everyone to death?

I don't agree that all events should be doable by all tiers. There needs to be motivation to get up to higher levels, end game, and higher challenge in the end, not the same stuff we've had for 2 years. While it would be neat to have a few events that are lower tiered, you know that it will be camped and slaughtered by higher players immediately.

[Tantalyr]

So the Withered Aegis should attack us by threatening some stand of trees in the wilderness?

Given the limitations on the game engine--a/k/a the Lag Monster--it seems to me far better that the mobs be spawned in the wilds, if even only a few "screens" away from cities and communities. The lore can be made to fit. For example: "New and dangerous Withered Aegis have been spotted in attack formation near Morning Light! You must stop this undead army before it reaches that defenseless community!" That way, the event "tastes great but is less (lag) filling."

[Ariadne]

I don't agree that all events should be doable by all tiers. There needs to be motivation to get up to higher levels, end game, and higher challenge in the end, not the same stuff we've had for 2 years.

some of us enjoy the low/mid game. why should we be forced to level to take part in interesting events? we enjoy the journey and don't want to "grind" to get there fast..

[LaughingOtter]

I do own a plot in Mithril's Anvil. These are the risks you take when you build on the Frontier. Just like the old days when the AoP would stroll through Harro or Morning Light - live with it, or move.

[PJ]

As for the difficulty of Daknor, 20 people is a bit extreme, took him with a group of 10 last night, and again with a group of 8 just a bit ago. He's harder, harder then SoG (1 person), Valkor (2 people), or Reklar (4-6ish). But not undoable.

Only thing i would suggest is that he is a touch hard to hit, even with 1400+ skills. And the undispellable aoe mez is a bit cheezy. As for Beserker Barrage, it is a touch powerful, but it is either not AoE, or has an extremely small area of effect, I've never seen it hit more then one person, even when they were clumped together.

[Rocinante]

Tantalyr raises some good points.

It would be no fun if you wanted to participate in an event but were not meeting some minimum requirements. That said I don't think every event needs to include the entire player base.

It would be a major hassle to own a plot in old oaks right now. Yay my plot was expaned but wait its hosting some tier V mobs right now. At least they didn't destory the buildings on the plots, like they destroyed the table saw in the now blighted thornwood forest.

Spawning beasts in the wild, I think the devs have pretty much done that in this event. Old Oaks is pretty much in the wilds. Besides the mobs running around Old Oaks aren't even the main group of them. Lag apparenlty is just something we have to deal with. I don't like it, I just accept it.

my two cents

Rocinante

[Varangaard]

I agree that events should be spread out across multiple tiers. There are always easy ways to explain why some lower level event mobs are milling somewhere else. They are scouts sent out by the main army, they are simply a decoy sent out to divide Imeprial forces, they are an exising force coming out of the hiding to exploit the chaotic situation, etc... I'm also of the thought that as long as we have to do with the old renderer big battles should not be set near or wihting towns.

I don't agree with event beasts having to be soloable. They should rightly present a challenge, requiring up to a full 10-person team to defeat.

Also, tell me more about these blighted festival treants you mentioned. I have done an extensive and long study on them and can conclude with great confidence and precision that they are nothing but a myth, perpetuated by some shady cabal called 'European office hours and not even that'. [:P]

[PJ]

Living any where in Istaria is just going to be hazardous. And living on the Frontier is particularly hazardous. Istaria is at war.And there are no noncombatents.

But as for the plight of the owners of plots in Old Oaks. The bulk of the mobs are much further SE. And once you take some time to familiarize yourself with their patrol routes, they're avoidable, if you're circumspect. Additionally killing the Blight Anchor appears to reduce the number of Ogres/Aboms/Laborers wandering around near Old Oaks

[Aamer Khan]

A few comments.

Being able to solo all mobs should not happen, lest we remove the challenge for the higher level players. Not all player builds can take all types of mobs. I hate yew oastics, PJ chews them up. I love yew treants, PJ hates them. We both have strengths and weaknesses. Thats the way it should be.

Lag has been considered with this event, and the main mobs are away from major towns.


*ANY* MMORPG game you play, has strong boss mobs that require assistance, tactics, and cooperation. To want anything less that that means you want it handed to you. This game has ALWAYS been about working together. And as has been mentioned, it only takes a bit of that to take these mobs down. If you want to be a singular hero, play a single player game.

I disagree that all event need to be for all players. No biped can do a dragon quest can he? There are even islands bipeds cannot goto. if this is so, and we accept that reality, then why should this quest cater to all players, when it's purpose is to give high level, accomplished players some new challenge? I firmly believe that there should be t1-t10 events on the training islands for newbies only, and that during those events, anyone higher than lvl 10 should be prevented from porting there and if already there, recalled away. The truth of the matter is there are more multi lvl 100 players then low to mid lvl players. Should those that have stayed 2+ years not get something designed for them too?

[imported_GhostRdr]

First off, it appears to be limited to the highest level players. Unlike the recently expired blighted festival treant event--which had blighted treants of all tiers so any level player could participate--the latest event beasties are all level 100+. So, any player lower than level 90 simply cannot effectively participate in the excitement. Indeed, given the incredible special attacks that even the non-boss beasties wield (like multiple Critical Attack strikes), I wouldn't recommend anyone under level 95 to try the quest.

I wholeheartedly agree those mobs are not for anyone under 95 or 100 unless in a group. The reworked mobs are very tough and hit very hard.

Second, the placement of the level 100 Abominations and archers (and God knows what else) right at the Old Oaks/Mithril's Anvil area seems a poor choice of location for a couple of reasons. Initially, the number of structures built in that area already is a lag-builder, and the placement of multiple, multiple mobs there greatly adds to the already existent lag, thus rendering combat as much an exercise in fighting lag as fighting beasties. Moreover--and more disconcerting--I cannot imagine how the poor owners of plots in those two communities can access their plots (and storage buildings) without multiple death points. Fortunately, I do not own a plot in that area, but I am sure I would be most unhappy if I did. While it's certainly nice for the Old Oaks plot owners that their plot sizes have been substantially increased, the trade-off appears to be that they nevertheless won't be able to get to them until this event is over.

Yes old oaks gets laggy, but that area is well traveled and would be a prime place for the WA to take over so in that aspect i dont mind them there. Having been through there numerous times last night i noticed the mobs didnt hang around the plots but on the road and near scout and beyond, they would not go near plots unless a player aggroed it and drug it over to em. once aggro is gone the mob went back to its patrol area. Thus anyone wishing to go to old oaks can take route from last stand instead of harro if you dont feel like aggroing a bunch of mobs.

Finally, I would suggest that the devs have engaged in a bit of overkill in designing the event critters. Specifically, the second step of the quest requires the slaying of Draknor, a level 125 boss Kwellen with some 56,000 hit points that has incredible special attacks that SoG, Valkor and Reklar can only dream about. Among others, Draknor has a "Berzerker Barrage" AoE attack that can do upwards of 4,000 damage to all players in the area. Last night on Order it took twenty--count 'em, TWENTY--high level players to take him down, and then with a LOT of death points being suffered by them all. Comparatively, it only takes four or five high level players to take out Valkor, maybe five (or even less) to slay SoG, and perhaps eight to slay Reklar. It makes little sense to me to require twenty or more high level players to slay one critter that is absolutely necessary to complete an event quest.

On chaos, draknor was taken down shortly after shards went up, with one full group of 10 and 1 person dying a few times (the initial aggroer). So it can be done with less. Sog can be taken with 2 people and at one point 1 person solo (PJ) although not anymore.
These new mobs are a product of the arena on blight IMO, watching our tactics. Some require grouping, what is wrong with that?

Allow me to make a few suggestions for future events, then:

1) Events should be accessible and, thus, enjoyed by all tiers of players. As with the blighted festival treants, event beasties should be spawned for every tier of player, including bosses which might be necessarily be slain to complete the quest (i.e., separate Tier I-VI bosses).

I don't personally think all events have to cater to all levels of players. WHile it would be nice for a low level event for the lower level toons the reality is the WA being bent on destroying us, would send their stronger forces to defeat us. Thus we need to retaliate with our strong forces.

4) Ensure that the event beasties (and bosses) are set to automatically spawn, not limited to World Master controlled spawns.

I agree with that statement. Or even reduce the timer on draknor so most people wont have to camp his area waiting for hours to complete that part of the quest, since he doesnt drop any special stuff like reklar or valkor. At least reduce spawn time.

[Amadan]

Unfortunately not all events can be for everyone. The Events are sometimes for everyone and sometimes to add high level content. We are always thinking of ways to make the events for everyone. The Fall Festival, Winter Festival and the Unexpected Lunacy Events were for everyone.


Also, as far as the monsters go. Yes, you will need groups to kill them. With the next delta the Task Masters will be fixed loot wise and the XP will be upped for killing them.

[Tantalyr]

*ANY* MMORPG game you play, has strong boss mobs that require assistance, tactics, and cooperation. To want anything less that that means you want it handed to you. This game has ALWAYS been about working together. And as has been mentioned, it only takes a bit of that to take these mobs down. If you want to be a singular hero, play a single player game.

I disagree that all event need to be for all players. No biped can do a dragon quest can he? There are even islands bipeds cannot goto. if this is so, and we accept that reality, then why should this quest cater to all players, when it's purpose is to give high level, accomplished players some new challenge? I firmly believe that there should be t1-t10 events on the training islands for newbies only, and that during those events, anyone higher than lvl 10 should be prevented from porting there and if already there, recalled away. The truth of the matter is there are more multi lvl 100 players then low to mid lvl players. Should those that have stayed 2+ years not get something designed for them too?

Perhaps I did not articulate well the rationale behind these two suggestions, Aamer . . . .

1) I have no problem at all with Event bosses being very difficult. I personally would have no problem if they required four or five players to slay them. But a goodly portion of the player base do not--indeed cannot--play during American "prime time." These folks get online at, say, four in the morning American time. They cannot and should not be expected to try to get together groups of ten or more players at that hour of the morning to take out a beast integral to the event. No more so than they should have been expected to be online when a World Master decided to spawn blighted treants during American primetime. These folks were shut out from participating in the blighted treant event, and I know quite a few players on Order who are rather unhappy about that to say the least.

2) I do not buy the argument that ANY event should be designed solely and only for longtime players as some sort of "reward" for staying around so long. If Tulga wishes (and I hope they someday do) to reward longtime players, it can do so in a variety of other ways, like giving us in-game pixel goodies, or giving us a month of free game time, or some such.

I see no harm in spawning different tiers of beasties and bosses, with the caveat I mentioned before that the higher the tier of the quest completed, the better the reward. So a mid-level player gets to participate in all the excitement (and in the lore and story arc) and gets a +20 Evasion Widget, while the high level player gets a +50 Evasion Widget. Different rewards for different tiers. Where's the harm?

Planning a major story event (and I'm not talking about permanent "events" like the RoP and ARoP) complete with lore and quests solely and only for high level players smacks of veteran arrogance. I simply see no value to shutting out ANY player from ANY event.

[Jayne]

Is this new Boss mob dropping anything special like Rek and Val? If so, what is he dropping? And what is the point of the quest?

Jayne

[Aamer Khan]

ok.

You said "Event beasties should be soloable, or at most require two or three players of the same tier to slay." Why is that? Whats the harm of requiring more? You don't like to group? Are you afraid that DB will introduce forced grouping?

As to the time zone differences of the playerbase I agree that the WM spawned mobs of the festival was a bad plan. The method to solve this is to have this mob spawn every 8 hours to allow the majority of players the "chance" to group up and kill him. There should never be a guarentee that any particular player show get to kill these mobs.

And having an event for vet players no more smacks of veteran arrogance, than making AROP available only to adult dragons. It's a reward for that level of player, nothing more.

You asked were the harm was... well, maybe not harm, but which do you think the devs can do more easily and with consistantcy... single tier events or multi-tier events? Like Amon said, 3 events in a row were for all tiers and now here is one for higherlevel players. Where is the "harm" in that?

[Vlisson]

argl

is this event again WM spawned?!?!?!

hasnt it be worse enough for us on unity with this blighted treants :(

but nice infos, thanks for it, i cant wait for this patch

a player smaller than lvl 100 can enjoy the whole istarian country, get exp, do quests, so i think its ok that this event is for high lvl player with rating 100+

what do you get from this event/quest? loot?

[Aamer Khan]

this is NOT to my knowledge a WM spawned mob or event.

[AA0]

some of us enjoy the low/mid game. why should we be forced to level to take part in interesting events? we enjoy the journey and don't want to "grind" to get there fast..

It makes little sense for there to be level 40 anchors and invasions, as a single level 100 could just slaughter the whole force...