Feedback about school: Dragon Lairshaping

[Seranthor]

Adwene: The facts I present have yet to be disproven, so it really doesn't matter whether I 'think I'm right' or not.

With regard to using a 2nd computer, I've never denied that. I freely volunteered that information to you and others and clearly if you know about it, and JDavidC knows about it then I'm not trying to hide it at all. Teamwork is a cornerstone of building anything in HZ. To deny yourself that opportunity is illogical and only hamstrings you. I whole heartedly endorse working as a team even if your 'team' consists of two computers operated by the same person.

[Dragoniade]

Dragonaide, just take it easy, Ser won't change his mind when he thinks he is right [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

All of his bragging about how much he has done solo is great. He doesn't mention that he plays 2 computers so even if he is doing it himself, he can do it 1.5x faster (or more) than a dragon without a 2nd account and a 100 crafter helping him, both with the lvl 100 disks, full biped buffs ect ect.

I know how much help having the 2nd computer can be, when i can wrestle my husbands from him I can get a lot more done for those couple of hours.

I stop caring about his opinion. When someone is stuck thinking 1/3 and 100/300 aren't the same values, there isn't much left to do to reason them.

Point still remain that plot silos don't take 10 time the ressource as a lair silo like someone implied; and that storage option are badly lacking on a lair, both in stack AND bulk.

When you have to spend 1-2 months working on a single storage room, when a plot can have emergency storage in less than 2 days, this isn't balanced.

And I got to love how he would says my number are biaised, when he himself lies about his gaming experiences.

[JDavidC]

Let me compare 2 storage options:

An 8 stack 'silo', with 25k bulk per stack.
3x5x1 or 5x3x1, as long as you have a lair that's 4x5xSomething.

OXO
OXO
XXX
OXO
OXO
O = t1 silo, X = corridor, feel free to switch rows as you see fit. I can't be bothered trying to find out how to remove the blasted extra columns from the tables I pulled, so just ignore the last 3 columns. :P
For 8 silos and 7 corridors, you'll need:

Material Need Skill Level Tool Imbued Bronze Bar 434 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Primal Essence of Melding 161 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Rough Flowstone 161 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Rough Maelstone 161 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Viridian Crystalline Lattice 434 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Weak Excoriation of Earth 273 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability
Hard units = 434 + 161 + 161 = 756, easy units = 434 + 161 + 273 = 868, and you can throw in dragon mural decorations along the way if you go with 4-way corridors all over the place.

A t2 hall

Material Need Skill Level Tool Cerulean Crystalline Lattice 154 Lairshaping 300 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Flawed Flowstone 175 Lairshaping 300 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Flawed Maelstone 245 Lairshaping 300 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Imbued Bronze Bar 126 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Imbued Silver Bar 126 Lairshaping 200 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Mild Excoriation of Earth 175 Lairshaping 200 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Primal Essence of Fusion 140 Lairshaping 200 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Primal Essence of Melding 140 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Rough Flowstone 175 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Rough Maelstone 245 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Viridian Crystalline Lattice 154 Lairshaping 100 Dragon Lairshaping Ability Weak Excoriation of Earth 175 Lairshaping 1 Dragon Lairshaping Ability
Hard units: 2(154 + 175 + 245) = 1148, Easy units: 2(175 + 140 + 126) = 882

You can go for a t3 hall for the same amount of units to get better storage, but the footprint goes up to 3x3x3, which is more than the 'multi-stack silo', and for only slightly more bulk capacity. Plus, halls beyond t1 require a lot more work to put in than the 'multi-stack silo', which does not have to be fully completed for stuff to be put in. Just having 4 of the t1 silos up means you can tarbash ALL the raw resources (or ones that can be processed simply) to the silos and make the construction units in one place with the workshops up. FYI, if you go for only 4 t1 silos instead of 8, you can cut about half of the work out (and only use 6 squares for two 4-way corridor sections with 2 T1 silos on both sides).. Suddenly it's VERY handycompared to making a hall.

After the silos go up and you have some shops, making the actual hall would be much easier IMO.

The point of this post? Just saying you do not HAVE to resort to building a hall just for adequate storage requirements compared to bipeds. Instead of a large, deep, low capacity silo (compared to footprint), a farm of t1 silos is much easier. Building the silo farm would be a matter of days, not months (if you work hard at it solo that is).

[LaughingOtter]

**DING**

All fighters back to their corners!

Good grief, people...

Just in the interest of turning this from an episode of Jerry Springer into a reasonable exchange of diverse opinion, how about this:

No fair comparison is possible unless everyone is using the same standards. If you are going to argue hypotheticals, you have to use the same givens. So, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, pick a point and compare from there. Assuming max efficiency on T6 is not realistic, but at least it provides a single consistant basis of comparison. So does minimum efficiency, for that matter. Assume that skill level in all cases is 1000 or 1200, or 42, whatever, but pick ONE skill level and argue from there. Can a dragon hit 1200 smelting? Assume the answer is yes and keep going - don't start in on smelting quests or scales or shop bonuses. Pick a single point and argue from there.

This is just a suggestion, in the interest of rescuing an excellent topic from a miasma of kvetching and smugness. A flag for unsportsmanlike conduct on you both, penalties offset, repeat the down. [;)] More seriously, any position either of you are advocating is being lost in your presentation. I have no authority to smack anyone down, but this discussion is suffering from a dreadful excess of personality. I've said my peace; take it, leave it, whatever.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

I find it intersting that yesterday this thread was locked, today it isn't - and not a single mod posted an explanation for either...*sigh* but that's another topic ;)

I din't report anything, but the personal insults in here on BOTH sides are getting ridiculous. Dragonaide and Seranthor if neither of you can refrain from personally insulting each other you both need to just let it drop, pull back, and remind yourself that this is a forum for a game - and neither of you need to be taking it that personally.

Or this thread needs to stay locked, except for the last few posts the last page of them were nothing but personal mudslinging and it was beyond stupid and immature - both of your points are lost when you do such things.

And I dont want to hear anything about "well he started it"...if you're to that point in the conversation well that should say something to you...:)

so now back to a hopefully insult free thread :)..and I agree with LO that someone just needs to pick a point of comparison and everyone use that point to compare. Perhaps not optimum at teir VI, fine, pick minimum at tier VI - I'm sure the point is the same. (the point of the argument, not the number point)

[Rocinante]

Wow, after reading this thread I can honestly say we are dumber now than when we started.

Simply put it sounds like Dragon players are complaining about how hard is to shape a lair. But instead ofasking "Hey TG this is really ******** hard, is it supposed to be this hard?" they are trying to say its unfair because bipeds....

I have a simple suggestion, spend less time complaining about bipeds and more time actually in game making your lair. It will get done a hell of a lot faster.

Rocinante

[AA0]

The thread was never locked, Seranthor locked his last post which gives the appearance of a lock, and the inability to reply to his specific post.

The whole thread is ridiculous with people so set in their ways and no ability to flex, and accept that things are different in certain areas.

[imported_peladon]

My words are but the words of a Fool and the whisper of a forgotten wind. If this wind is silent in thine ear, that is no more or less than its worth.

I should not speak.In this tempest my words are but little and less than when the winds of those Wise and wise blow more soft,and mayhap that rightly. But then, speaking words that are of no account and speaking where others would have me still is no stranger to me... or those both Wise and wise that endure me.

I walk. I make. I fight. Aye, and all poorly, for I am among the least of draku. And others walk. And others make. And others fight. Aye, and the heroes of the Gifted all are most able.

Where I walk, where I make, where I fight, there are things I may do that are easier than other things. And other things I may do that are harder than some. It is so, and it is the striving against those things that are harder that brings me both challenge in the doing and joy on those rare tides the doing is a done thing.

And it seems to me that there are others about me ( I am sure this is so), and thus by the manner of thing I call reason, it seems that those others also will have things they do, mayhap like unto mine and like not. And it seems to me also by reason that some of those things they may do easy and some not so swift or easily done. And this I think is so, for reason suggests it. But I know not. And why so I not know?

BECAUSE I DO NOT DO THEM.

This is not a thing of draku or those that have but two legs. It is a thing of me and those that are not me. I build no other drake's lair, even if I may lay a thing to that lair. For it is a thing of that other drake. I build not a dwarf Inn, even if I gather ore or fly that things in one place may be in another. I gather ore, mayhap. I. I craft a gem, it may be. I. If a thing appears on my lair and I made it not, I may craft gratitude, but it is a thing and the lair is no less mine.

I walk. I make. I fight. And I do this. If the world resists me to some degree, then the victory is mine.

And mayhap that is why I walk. Why I make. Why I fight. But this also I know. These are reasons, and these words, I would seek to believe, hold reason. But both reasons and reason are mine alone.

My words are the words of a Fool and the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them also be forgotten.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Drakonis of Order
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Wow, after reading this thread I can honestly say we are dumber now than when we started.

Simply put it sounds like Dragon players are complaining about how hard is to shape a lair. But instead ofasking "Hey TG this is really ******** hard, is it supposed to be this hard?" they are trying to say its unfair because bipeds....

I have a simple suggestion, spend less time complaining about bipeds and more time actually in game making your lair. It will get done a hell of a lot faster.

Rocinante

well not agreeing that its dumber than when we started, but this thread topic has been done before this thread - several times, its not like its a new topic :).

However, you miss your point about "shutup and play the game"...what people like you fail to realize is that 1-some of us can't play the game while we're posting to the forum even if we wanted to, like me, at work - I can spend all day here at the forum and it takes nothing from my game time and 2-some of us (*also me*) play in windowed mode and are ABLE to actually PLAY the game at the SAME TIME we're posting in the forums (and most esepcially if I'm crafting, I can craft while I type, and visa versa...).

And I"m goign to continue to make this post until people stop with the "if you played the game as much as you read the forums you'd be xyz or know abc..." defense.

Its got no basis in reality for many of us "forum junkies" :)