Suggestion: Combining Construction crafter classes?

[Justa Mirage]

Dragons: Trains Lairshaping (and gets Crystalshaping as an ability stat)

With raw materials they are capable of gathering themselves are completely self sufficient in building things for their lairs, based on the level of their skill.

Bi-Peds: 5 Construction classes (basic gathering stats raise if the construction level is higher than the crafting level of the same material)

Yes, there are massive bi-ped builders out there (yes PJ I am talking about you) and can almost build anything on their own, because they have invested 2 years of leveling every construction class.

How would you make it so a bi-ped could "start out" as an all-construction class and be able to be self sufficient?

Could the possibility of having a "Construction" class that encompasses all of the 5 schools, but allows maybe 7 skill points per "attribute" instead of 10, limiting someone at 100th level from being able to construct Tier 6 stuff (or have a hard time with tier 5) but will be capable of constructing complete tier 1 - 4 structures without needing skillsets from other players.

Or

Just eliminate the need for needing to switch classes and allow Cargo gear to be worn based on the highest crafting level instead of the present level...

Any suggestions or just leave it :)

[AA0]

While I do like the school system we have, in construction there is a major hurdle of getting 5 schools up, and building your plot. There needs to be a solution to get some of the scaffolding finished. The average casual player just isn't able to complete their plot, and level adventure, and level 5 craft schools.. its just way too much work.

[cattoy]

Sure, why not? What the in-game economy needs is more self-sufficient people who don't need to interact with the rest of the playerbase.

[Justa Mirage]

You still "can" interact with the playerbase, but it won't be paying 1sp per tier per unit to do so...

Guild members can help by helping you gather resources, or by actually helping you construct for money as well, if you so desire to pay them, but in the same instance, you don't feel like what AAO said and what I apparently am... the Casual gamer (which someone a while back said this game catered to the most).

A casual gamer won't be able to level everything to max level and probably will "have" to pay for others to do their work.

I have stated this in the past.... only the way that you get something built is that you either do it yourself, pay someone to do it, or belong to a large active wealthy guild that can help provide construction, as there aren't many "non-guild" players that would donate their time and resources for your construction without some kind of monetary pay.

Perhaps a "single bi-ped class" for being able to build basic structures (like t1-t3 silos, houses, tents, or landscaping, but NOT machines) so they feel as if they can buy a plot and be able to put stuff on it without needing thousands of silver to do it.

[Kerik]

You dont have to pay 1sp per unit.

I've seen a number of building go up rather quickly, onlypaying 250-300cp per.

The 'trick' is letting people know it's there.



Hardly anyone uses these message boards and fewer use the construction channel. You can't just fund the lot and expect someone to wander by.

[UlteriorModem]

Dont want to derail the discussion but I couldent help it.

*Points at Justa's avatar icon and Laughs heartly.

[cattoy]

You dont have to pay 1sp per unit.

I've seen a number of building go up rather quickly, onlypaying 250-300cp per.

The 'trick' is letting people know it's there.



Hardly anyone uses these message boards and fewer use the construction channel. You can't just fund the lot and expect someone to wander by.

This sort of thing would work MUCH better if there was some sort of place where you could go and find current listings of paid construction work, sorted by tier, construction material or location.

[Dragoniade]

Sure. And let have plot structure take up to 3-5 more ressources.

Some people are forgetting the major difference between Lairshaper and Plot Construction classes: Cooperation.

With lairshapers, you only have to level 1 class. You don't need cooperation. With or without cooperation, you'll have to make the same amount of unit, apply the same amount of unit, no matter which unit you need to make in order to level or finish that building. You can ask for help, but all it will do is spread the same work between 2 dragons. If 2 dragons have 2 hall to build, in the end, it's the same work. But dragon only have to level 1 school.


With plot workers, it's a totally different stories. So they requires 3-5 schools? Big deal. Welcome to the real life of construction. And you don't have to level all those school: only one. How? That's where COOPERATION come in play. You're a masson? Then level masson all the way. You need fitting work for your silo? Then go in Construction and ask a fitter leveling only fitter to trade masson work for fitting work. You do his massonery to his silos, he does your fitting for you. In the end, you only have to level 1 school. If you have 3, 5 or even 50 silos, all you sill have to level is 1 school. And the works is actually spreed between all the players.

Though I admit the Construction channel may not be work friendly, a new 'bid' page could be an interesting addittion to the community website. All structures with paid construction would be listed with the plot location, owner name, number of units remaining, and the price per unit applied. Kind of like the current consigner search, but with construction. Because the current community survey is really NOT construction friendly: slow to display, slow to refresh, innacurate.

[imported_Ssilmath]

The problem with that Dragonaide is that very few people actually interact in any meaningful way, and as such you have to be self sufficient to get anything done...

[Tzael]

I'm not keen on turning biped construction into a JOAT school.

I'd rather have 5 seperate schools and an onus on collaboration than turn everyone into JOAT constructors and truly kill off any need for specialist constructors except at the uppermost tier(s).

[Justa Mirage]

What I was getting at was... because of the low playerbase, and the fact there are JOATs out there... that you could turn JOAT into a class on its own.

But then a JOAT class would not... let's say, be able to build anything greater than a tier 4 construction easily, and tier 5 and 6 would be left for the mega construction expert crafters.

people don't realize or want to turn their head to these facts:

1: The playerbase is small, finding construction people is difficult
2: Those that do log frequently, know you need it and set rediculous prices for work
3: You are at their mercy and time schedule, not yours.
4: Trust.... can you trust that someone will get the work done

[JDavidC]

Hmm, I think I may have seen silos (maybe odd tier silos) that do not require ALL of the construction schools. This applies for other buildings. Maybe they should concentrate on silos and the odd other thing (apart from stuff like walls) that require only ONE construction school to build.

To be perfectly honest, I don't see why a silo couldn't be constructed of anything other than stone bricks (except maybe for the door or whatever). Just build a cylinder of bricks (and use others as makeshift scaffolding stairways), and then slab a LARGE stone brick on top as a roof. At least that way you could start things off by being a mason, then once you have somewhere to store stuff, you could branch out into other things, and eventually replace the stone-only silos with the silos that inexplicably require all sorts of materials (except the ones just for dragons).

[Valornyx]

As a player with a dragon and a biped with a good number of construction classes, I much prefer the biped method over the newer dragon method.

TGs way of compensating for the fact that dragons do not have multiple classes is to dramatically increase the number of resources required ..

ok you all say - it takes the same amount of time to build your lair as it would to level 5-7 different craft classes - what are the dragons all unhappy about?

The answer is that no matter is a dragon is L100 in DLSH building a lairchamber is always a grind. With biped crafting - as you go up in levels - you can knock out lower level buildings relatively easily (note: relatively).

Whilst the time to build your first lair/plot might be similar - I can almost guarantee that if you had a dragon vs biped race on a second plot/lair - the biped would win handily.

Personally I'd rather have lairshaping follow the biped system rather than the way it is.

This is a bit sidetracked - but still related I think to the original post.

I'm not really in favor of making the JOAT crafter easier - I think that most people are in guilds and most guilds have different-skilled players .. I think that there should be more dependency - not less.. try to make an economy out of it.

[cattoy]

Also, I take issue with the original justification for this proposal.

Why does a "casual player" NEED a plot and silos and house? Why isn't a vault enough storage space for a "casual player"?

[AA0]

The majority of subs are the more casual, non hardcore players, keeping them happy is in your best interest.

[Justa Mirage]

Ah, but there's the key Val.... not ALL dragons have a crafting level of 100....

If you were to make 3 different crafting classes out of Lairshaping (Imbued bronze bars / Maelstones being 1, Excoriations of earth / flowstones being 2, and Primal Essence / lattices being the 3rd)

Dragons like me would have to switch from DCRA to one of these 3 classes and find the trainer. Now, if they stuck all 3 trainers in one location (unlike bi-ped trainers which are scattered) it might make sense... but I still make XP off of making the "preresequite materials" before the actual lairshaping final product. I find it a pain having to switch from DCRA to DLSH all the time, but with your suggestion of making "Us" like "Them" would mean I would have to switch multiple times between 3 trainers.

My original post was to compare "bi-ped" plot building to "dragon" lairshaping and maybe a way to allow bi-peds to only have to report to 1 trainer for all of their "crafting needs" or place all of the crafting trainers in one building for quicker skill swapping.

[Vandellia]

I love a discussion where people use acronyms that not every one understands Joat? Oh well leave things as they are they are fine Constructionin any form is laborious and time consuming. the 5 schools versus 1 schools is simply the old biped versus dragon rantdisgused, let it drop,letit go ,its not going to change. I would like to see something that uses leather tarps and gold and silver sheeting those are currently pretty usless

[Justa Mirage]

JOAT: Jack of all Trades, (master of none... except in PJ's and some others)