Quests to upgrade Boss mob weapons/armor

[Leviathan]

Quest items that are made from pieces dropped from the boss mobs are very rare on the servers due to the effort and time needed to obtain them.

Would be neat to make "extremely rare" weapons/armor by additional quests for more pieces and formulas that require a completed piece weapon/armor as a component, in order to upgrade them.

[HAG]

In fact i feel that those "rare" items should be boosted overall!

What good is a "Blood Demon Axe" if any crafted Axe with 3 sockets is better? Shimmering Bleed Crystals are not that rare, you know?

Why is bonus to T&C and Strength to "Demon Claw" and "Valkor's Blood Claw" only 30? 25 is value of a tV-tech already! Boost the bonus to +50 and dragons have a motivation to hunt for those claws again!

"Demonbane Spike" is a pure laugh. Ever tried it on a "demon"? The only reason it may die is because of the steady tickling ...

Come on Dev's, i know you have LOTS to do, and many many players want many many many things. But could it be THAT hard to simply boost some values so, that atleast the numbers are significantly higher than a tech?

To clarify, there is some "rare" items that have nice stats. Blood Sword, Demonogii and Demon Maul have all unique effects and either higher damage or lower delay than usual, so they are desirable. That tells us you KNOW how to program nice stuff ...

[Cerjar]

All the loot from the boss-mobs should be considered as "alternative" to the stuff you can create. When boss-mobs loot becomes a necessary, the hunting of these would also become frustating... i only join these battles atm sometimes mainly cause of the fun. I never won a random yet, but its ok because i don't need these loot. It would only be a nice to have...

I consider these boss-mobs as a part of a Elder Game and timesink for people who dont know what to do in HZ anymore.

[Guaran]

I have to agree, all of the boss mob loot could use improving. I started a thread awhile back on the subject.

Demon, Valkor weapon suggestions: http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=11818

Demon Claw suggestion: http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=11817

Some good idea's in there.

[LaughingOtter]

The only reason I stick with my Demon Blood Axe is that Demon Bleed is an AoE. Yeah, there is something out of whack when you can add three crystals to a T5 weapon and get better results than you do from a Demon-class weapon.

[AA0]

Sadly, I think the demon flurry is the best unique type weapon in game, and even then I use it less than half of time, on many mobs I never break it out.

[Eni]

I would like a quest (a hard one) to turn the weapons/armors into crystals. This would allow you to use it in a weapon teched or socketed and would protect them from getting obsolete with t6 weapons in future.
For items like deamon bow the crystal even could lower weapon dmg as a normal bow has higher dmg. If the crystals are designed to make a level 90 weapon with 1 socket identical to the rare weapon it would just give you additional techs/sockets to improve them a littel past the regular crafted.

[Vandellia]

This has been an issue for me for a long time is the cost/effort/time spent doing the event quests worth the effort? sadly for many the answer is no. If they could manage to make the reward more flexible maybe do something along the line of after you turn in the quest you get a sub quest for some race/adventure school specific ability or item that is useful it would go a long way to improving the rational for doing the quest

[Xarog]

I don't like the idea of there being "special" weapons that are hard or near impossible to find.

I've already seen one game ruined because instead of there being a player based economy where everyone made everything, suddenly all that mattered was getting rare drops. people who got those drops could sell them for bloated prices due to their rarity - suddenly players were working their rear ends off making to try and buy these items from players. the players finding these items ended up stinking rich and thus able to buy just about anything they wanted.

You say you want the quest weapons to be better - but I'm not sure you've considered the consequences. Already these weapon parts are worth at least 1g - some of them more. How many mithril bars does that buy? A new player who has to sell what he makes to the pawnbroker will be easily convinced to support your desire to simply buy your crafting levels instead of working for them. How easy does it become to farm these weapons not for the weapons, but for the income they generate?

[Mearis]

All items rather crafted or looted should be on par (for the tier) with each other. If boss creatures start dropping weapons that do far and away more damage then any craftable weapon I see Horizons going the way of DAOC. That is farm, farm, farm getting nothing but the special loot drops, not bothering with crafted items because loot drops would be superior. I agree that if you kill some giant boss creature who drops a weapon or an item should be special, but instead of having the stats being better then any craftable weapon. Alter the appearance, make it look special. That way somebody who sees the weapon being wielded would drool, and know that the person wielding it had to defeat a boss creature to get it... well that's my 2 copper

[Xarog]

You have obviously not attempted to "Farm" these.

SoG is about the most farmable of them. When was the last time you saw a Demon weapon sold on the open market?

I've been away for the last 6 months, I left just when they started coming out.

I've been in a 3 man team to farm valkor, and that was pretty damned easy. I've been on reklar hunts too, and that's also not too hard.

Sure, for now, everyone's hunting for themselves, but eventually, inevitably, people will collect all they want, and then start hunting because it's faster to make money that way.

Unity's market channel seems to have people posting weapon parts reasonably often - but I guess it could also be people trading parts for parts. Often enough though, it is a case of WTT/WTS [insert set pieces here].

If devs carry on making event bosses that drop these things with each new event that comes, it only increases the speeds at which saturation will occur. Those hunting the parts for the items now will be hunting the parts for money once they have everything - that's inevitable.

Most items in the game are valuable because it takes a player with high skill to make them. The new set piece items changes that - the main portion of the price simply goes down to the fact that it was a rare drop instead of the fact that a player with high skills made it. I like participating in a community where people can take raw materials with little intinsic value and turn them into something valuable to other players. I don't like choosing between joining risky hunts or being stuck with second-rate gear.

[Xarog]

Yes, Valkor and Reklar aren't too difficult. However you need 6 specific pieces per weapon you create. That will take quite some time and you will end up with many extra parts.

Yes, those extra parts are traded away - hello rare item economy.

Edit: Oh, and it's far easier to just kill hounds, or mass farm blights for coin. Coin is not difficult to obtain in the slightest.

Tell that to the lvl 60-80 char you're paying relatively obscene amounts of money to for your granite bricks/cobalt bars etc. etc.

[Saleena1]

I don't like the idea of there being "special" weapons that are hard or near impossible to find.

I've already seen one game ruined because instead of there being a player based economy where everyone made everything, suddenly all that mattered was getting rare drops. people who got those drops could sell them for bloated prices due to their rarity - suddenly players were working their rear ends off making to try and buy these items from players. the players finding these items ended up stinking rich and thus able to buy just about anything they wanted.

You say you want the quest weapons to be better - but I'm not sure you've considered the consequences. Already these weapon parts are worth at least 1g - some of them more. How many mithril bars does that buy? A new player who has to sell what he makes to the pawnbroker will be easily convinced to support your desire to simply buy your crafting levels instead of working for them. How easy does it become to farm these weapons not for the weapons, but for the income they generate?

================================================== =====

Strongly agree with the Xarog.

Speaking about possible consequences; it has been a pleasure that "gold/item farmers for real life money haven't rooted within our community over the years.

Let's hope that the farming nightmare and ruin economy will not come true just because some people would rather hunt for drops.

My humble opinion is that quest rewards and drop weapons/armor (anything that can be crafted) should only be an alternative but never as good nor better than what can be crafted.

I have begun to wonder if the endgame is different. Being more drop item oriented versus crafting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the base of this game crafting with adventuring as an alternative or is it just my goal shining through?

[Xarog]

Kumu :

Are they really? It must really be a plague on your server. It doesn't happen on Order with any regularity that I am aware of. People have been seeking certain pieces for months now...

I've been looking over the last two days, there are 1 or 2 trade messages per day at least. There is also another channel called "Valkor and SoG" which is the third most populated channel in the game, on average; I don't hang around there though, so I can't tell you exactly what people talk about in there. Does Order have such a channel?

Tell what to the 60-80? Mass kill blights? Yep, go do it...

I can almost guarantee you that the people with obscene monetary amounts are not amassing that wealth by selling items from Valkor/Reklar/SoG.

How long does such a hunt take? if you get lucky, that was 30-60 minutes work spent getting a few golds worth of merchandise - the rest of the time you can go back to killing blights. For a mob like valkor, who can be taken out by 2 people if they know what they're doing (I've heard rumours of people soloing him too, but I'm not sure if they're accurate), that's an average of 1g for an hour's work, assuming that all setpieces would sell for 1g, which they don't. If you can suggest a faster way to make money, I'm listening.

[Xarog]

Then it must be a plague on your server.

Can I assume this means that this means you give my POV some credence?

Even if you can solo Valkor. You get 1 item every 12 hours +/-. Same with SoG if he drops any at that time (I have not seen multiples drop, does he?). Reklar is same as Valkor.

Yes, and for those 12 hours you can be doing something else.

Of those 3, Reklar is not soloable. SoG is not soloable. Valkor is possibly soloable. So you can cut your 1g in half, or even more.

Afaik, Reklar is the only one that needs a big group to bring him down. SoG can be taken out quite easily with someone playing at being dedicated stunner.

How do you make money? I'm not going to tell you as you do not know.

So if I knew you WOULD tell me??? o_O Please explain why this remark isn't snobbery - I really would like to believe there was a noble motive in it, but I can't find it.

I'm not quite sure what you expect from a biped who's only lvl 100 class is spirit disciple, or a lvl 50 dragon, though.

[Xarog]

Beside the point.

No, it isn't. it means that the half-hour you spend on the hunt, is a ridiculously easy way to make money. Saying that valkor or whoever only spawns every 12 hours doesn't mean you're tied up hunting for 12 hours, so the fact that it takes 12 hours per spawn is largely irrelevant.

SoG has two versions. One is stunnable, the other is not. Even if you have a dedicated stunner, that is a 50% reduction in "Profit". If you don't add anyone else to the mix.

I wasn't aware of that - however, you said SoG drops full weapons, not merely pieces, (the pieces being worth 1g each at a conservative estimate). That is still incredibly lucrative.

I am not telling you because since you don't know there is no reason to enable you and everyone else that reads this to be able to flood the server with even more coin before Tulga can actually remove coin from the system (It does not currently...)

Why add "since you don't know"? It's redundant. "I'm not telling you because I think there's already too much coin in the game." works just as well, and doesn't sound anywhere near as elitist.

Certainly not soloing Valkor/SoG/Reklar to make 1g per 30 minutes...

Worked OK in the 3 man valkor team, to be honest.

Which further leads credance to MY point of view in that it's not nearly the epidemic you think it is.

I never said it was an epidemic; I said that if lots of new event mobs dropping rare loot continues to be the additions Tulga makes to the game, it will BECOME an epidemic, and in my personal opinion, totally ruin the flavour of the game.

[Xarog]

Yes, but that 1g in an hour only happens every 12 hours, and only if you manage to solo it.

It's not irrelevant because you have a finite amount of ability to obtain THAT particular version of "Fast cash" as you seem to think it is.

4 known mobs that drop such items. that's 1 mob every 3 hours, if you're determined, which some are.

Except that I highly doubt that you will solo SoG frequently. At best you will have your stunner. Which means half of the time you will not get the item (Give or take). Which means that SoG is dropped to 500 silver income or even 333 if you have a 3rd. See what I am getting at there?

weapon with least parts (to my knoweledge) = 4; even if split the cash between the 3 of you, each SoG run is worth at least 1 gold each.

Want a lollipop?

If you're offering, sure.

It doesn't seem to be the plague you are trying to make it into.

I repeat :

I never said it was an epidemic; I said that if lots of new event mobs dropping rare loot continues to be the additions Tulga makes to the game, it will BECOME an epidemic...

I consider 100% player made items to be mundane and nothing at all special because it makes EVERYONE exactly the same. Sure, they may have different techs, but overall...it's all the same.

And the difference between everyone running around with player crafted weapon(a) and hunted weapon(b) is?

With special items, people are different, people have items they treasure because they worked hard to obtain them instead of heading to the local crafter for Sword #45123.

Exacly my point, people are different with hunted treasure around. It creates an economy of haves and have-nots, promotes player rivalry, and generally influences the community for the worse.

If you want to see what such a community is like, btw, go take a look at Runescape. It's a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Special items do not destroy the player made item economy because the special items are similar or lesser or slightly stronger than player made items dependant on the particular situations.

This thread was created because the person creating the thread wanted the weapons to become much stronger than they are now, and that's why I posted and disagreed with it. I assume from what you say here, that you'd be inclined to think that the weapons should be comparable to the player crafted weapons, not so?

[Xarog]

Good for them. If they are determined then they deserve it and you should wallow in your self induced poverty.

Poverty is relative - I have all I need, really.

Huh?

each PIECE of these new items is worth 1 gold. it takes a few pieces to make a whole item, and you stated that SoG drops whole items. Ergo...

I'm not uber because of it. It's only situationaly better than crafted items.

Again, at the outset this thread was about increasing the power of those items.

Hunting tech resources does take effort, and teched weapons are not for sale at consigners. Of course, you could just kill things for coin and go visit the vielo, but that's sort of shooting yourself in the foot if you want your items to be special.

Good. There should be an economy of haves and have-nots. It's a reflection of society. I'd rather not see a communistic economy in an MMO.

I'm not so sure. I absolutely love the horizons community in general, and a big part of that is the fact that people aren't selfish because they generally have what they need/want.

I'll take the Runescape community over your suggestion any day.

It's infested with scammers, people trying to steal your account, people "selling" their accounts, people selling game items for real money, people trying to find out your password, people using jpeg exploits to put keylogging trojans in their signatures on popular runescape forumes.... etc. etc. etc.

I somehow doubt *that* is what you'd rather have compared to what we have now.

He suggests an option. Which can include the crafters.

It's a token inclusion at best. I doubt you'll ever see a crafter dreaming of the day they put together a couple of items to make a weapon for another player. Taking raw materials from the earth, and processing them at each step, holds much more appeal.

I have absolutly zero problem with items being stronger than stuff that every single player in the game can create for themselves. Especially if it takes effort to acheive.

Such options don't need rare items to drop from event mobs. You can introduce special mithril weapons that consume an insane number of bars to be made, perhaps something on par with the number you need to make a t5 silo. You can take the vielo out of the game again so that getting techs actually requires that you hunt for them instead of masskilling a few blights and then purchasing them.

Both these options would do what you require, and they don't need to screw up the community/economy in doing it.

As you've said, on a long enough timeline, these special weapons will become available to everyone - meaning that they're degraded into something ordinary again - at that point there will need to be something better, and better, and better again until the game's style and feel barely resembles the style and feel when it came out, or as it stands now. I've already stopped playing one such game because such changes turned the game into something that wasn't fun. I don't want the same to happen to horizons.

[HAG]

Wow, what a private war that was ...

Xarog, don't take it personally, but you are like a blind man talking of the Sunset. Means, in most points i agree with Kumu.

Though it seems ended i have to warm it up, as some things have to be added to the discussion.

And as in an intro i have to make a confession:
YES i am one of those "Determined Ones", hunting the 3 mobs every day - or atleast trying to. And even though i'm determined from the day those mobs were introduced, i only was able to finish Valkor's Blood Talon (5 Pieces) and Reklar's Towershield (4 Pieces) up to now. And even that only recently.

What i'm trying to say is: Your suggestion of "Farming" Valkor or Reklar for the pure coin is a LAUGH! And here is why ...

"Each PIECE of these new items is worth 1 gold. it takes a few pieces to make a whole item, and you stated that SoG drops whole items. Ergo..."

Wrong. First off - as kumu stated - you have at least 2 in group, up to 10 for Reklar. Chances to get one set-piece vary from 50 to 10% that way.

Next issue: Most players hunting for the rares don't sell those pieces, as they might need them as "currency" to trade for the pieces they need for themselves. I only know of one player on unity that is selling some pieces he gets by winning random rolls. The others all trade only.

And concerning SoG ... well - mostly he drops only crap, i'd say only every 5 hunts a weapon drops. And even IF that weapon drops - the winner of the random roll either keeps it for himself - or gives it to a guildy.

And i can't see how that could ruin any market ...

[Ssajit]

i agree with hag.

and sog and valkor channel that u refere as a place where ppl gather to ruin the economy, is also a place to let ppl know that bosses are up so not to go and solo a boss but to get a larger group and only 1 of those will get an item.
...yes morning hunts dont have many ppl but evening ones have very often a full group...
well valkor is easy...if handeled properly...reklar isnt too hard in a nice group but have u felt his gold rage...even with resistance all over ur equipment surviving his gold rage hapens as often as a sun eclipse...getting ambro gets u to spend a lot of money
and by ur calculations i should have at least a mithril coin by now for the amount of time i been hunting or at least several weapons...i only recently asembled 1 weapon and i dont even have a gold piece ^^