Confectioner School

[Seranthor]

Maybe it simply looks bad on me to say this, but I already get to the point occasionally with 10+ DPs where I just think its probably best if I simply dont log in for a few days. Discouraging players from continuing to play is a bad thing for the game imho.

At the moment you can gain 3 DPs a day and break even on deaths/removal of DPs. This is fine. My main dragon, for example, is level 45/100. I assume at 100 craft this would put him in t6. This means that I can no longer even die once per day before having to leave the game for a while as DPs go away.

Its not so bad for occasional players that play only for a couple of hours a day, but for us real addicts that play 8 hours a day or so, this is a massive nerf. Even though I'm 100 craft, there is very little money to be made from craft, especially dragon craft as EVERY one of your customers is a dragon crafter themselves. I suppose lairshaping is a possibility, but this is about as fun as sticking coctail sticks in my eyes. My combat on the other hand is low, and if a spend a day leveling combat its easy for me to gain 3 or 4 DPs. Its not that easy to earn money through my combat class either, as most of the 'profitable' mobs to fight are quite a bit higher than me.

As such, its unlikely I'll spend loads of money on CNF food, after all if I'm looking for t6 CNF food, then the CNF will more than likely be 100 and only making it for the money, not the XP. Its more likely that I'll just not play for a few days while DPs go away. Meaning its more likely I'll pick up CoH/EVE/assorted other MMOs again, and not come back.

I'm not simply complaining that the Death Penalty system is too harsh. As I say I have played EVE and CoH that both have 'harsher' death penalties.

If there were an 'XP Dept' system like CoH, I wouldnt mind. If there were a large financial consequence like EVE (have it so some of your armor stays on your body when you die and you or a friend have to go collect it before someone steals it?) I wouldnt mind. What I dont see the point of is a Death System that mainly just encourages me to play less.

Even if the players that cant level CNF (dragons) had a different DP system, like a hoard penalty to res themselves with Recall, but no DP, say.... 100 hoard per level, meaning 5000 hoard for a lvl 50 dragon, and 10000 for a level 100, this would be a vast improvement.

Nexxus, please forgive me for saying this, however if you have 10DP then perhaps you'd think about your tactics, the mobs your fighting or who your fighting with. One or all may be flawed or need changed to lower your chance of dying.

[Lycaunoss]

Nexxus, please forgive me for saying this, however if you have 10DP then perhaps you'd think about your tactics, the mobs your fighting or who your fighting with. One or all may be flawed or need changed to lower your chance of dying.

I'd partially agree with Seranthor on this one. That's if you are fighting regular mobs and getting that ammount of DP's. If you are just unlucky and get ganked by Fafnir 9 times in a single fight then that's a bit of a different story. The food must be able to put a serious dent in your death points especially if you are required to go sit in a tavern.

By the way I did get 9 dp's fighting Fafnir the other night and it was just bad luck on my part (wrong place at the wrong time). With the current system I was able to load up on food go to the Isle of Battle tavern and make a macro to eat food every ten minutes. That got rid of the death points but I was not playing the game any longer. I forsee afk food macroing becoming popular.

[Drevar]

Rawdge, the seasonings are laid out as being able to be added during the creation process as well as after creation via drag and drop like dyes. How is the system set up to add these seasonings during creation? The current crafting system only allows Techniques to be added at creation which in turn add the required resources to the list. Will seasoning at creation require a Technique for each ingrediant or is there some new spiffy tech courtesy of Smeglor that changes the way the system works?

Also, will there be a seperate step to prepare seasonings to be use post-creation? I can see some things like pepper logically being added, but adding raw chicken or pork to an already prepared bowl of soup doesn't sound very appetizing, or sanitary. It would seem more logical (and yes I realize more work to make more assets) to prepare meats and such to a state where they can be used in prepared food. Would you rather top your Caesar salad with a bloody chunk of chicken or a nice sliced grilled chicken breast?

Drev

[LaughingOtter]

I believe that all resources must be processed in order to be usable as Seasonings. No raw gruok, for example, but Trimmed Gruok Flank would work.

[Drakarr]

"Opportunity plus instinct equals profit." - The 9th Rule of Acquisition
"Anything worth doing is worth doing for money." - The 13th Rule of Acquisition
"A wise man can hear profit in the wind." - The 22nd Rule of Acquisition

There's your contingency.

and dont forget

1. aquire underpants
2. ???????
3. Profit


....sorry couldnt resist.


The preview looks great BTW, looking forward to it

[Vlisson]

DP tiering should be off your adventure levels, not craft.

why? rating is rating ^^

i dont like the fact that craft-rating is without any consequence

[Nexxus]

Nexxus, please forgive me for saying this, however if you have 10DP then perhaps you'd think about your tactics, the mobs your fighting or who your fighting with. One or all may be flawed or need changed to lower your chance of dying.

I don't die these days anywhere near as much as I did when I was lower, but I'm not talking about getting 10 DPs in a day. Lets say I spend 7 days leveling combat, for say, 7 hours in a day. In the course of that sort of playtime its very easy for me to gain 2 or more DPs/day, There is always *some* risk of dieing or you are fighting mobs way lower than you and its no fun. To gain 2 DPs in an enitre day of play isnt alot.

The problem is that under the new system if you gain 2 DPs per day then you are slowly building up more and more of the things, as you are loosing less than 1 per day. After a week it would be easy to be at 10.

Now, DPs themselves dont really matter, the bit that matters is that actual death penalty. My 10th DP means my stats are nerfed to hell for 45 mins, and I have to stop playing and go do something else while it goes away. If I want to rid myself of these annoying 45 min breaks, I have to either spend loads of silver on food, (as dragons have no means of feeding themselves, now we know why we cant just kill bipeds off...), or I need to go play a different game for another week or so.

Ideally I'd like some sort of penalty that needs to be 'worked off' through combat or similar, so it does not simply encourage you to 'walk away'.

[AA0]

If you are a lower level you lose DPs a lot faster, so its possible to lose 2-3 DPs a day... it seems fine

[Sigi]

Would you rather top your Caesar salad with a bloody chunk of chicken or a nice sliced grilled chicken breast?

Drev

I'd take a bloody chunk of chicken please - you can even keep the salad I have some problems holding greens -

[Nexxus]

If you are a lower level you lose DPs a lot faster, so its possible to lose 2-3 DPs a day... it seems fine

We still dont know if its only based on Adv, or Craft as well. My dragon hit 100 craft before 50 Adv and my biped hit 100 craft before 40 Adv rating.

[Alladania]

I'm not sure why people are making the assumption that food will cost tons of silver. It sure hasn't cost that much in the past. Since confectioners will be dealing in volume, I can't see trying to rachet up the price on all the single items. I understand prices being high for those festival foods that could only be made by buying materials from the vielo but regular foods should not have that built in material cost. I know it's a wait and see, but I just don't see the confectioners I know (myself included) trying to gouge the market.

[Nexxus]

True, it will probably all work out, but this still makes CNF the only school that really has a captive market and returning customers. You only ever need one set of T5 platemail, not a new set each time you die, see what I mean? I also dont think the DP thing is needed, the CNF revamp would be fine without it.

I also am very much set against the fact that Dragons cannot feed themselves :/

If this is but the start of a number of changes that will do the same for all the classes I'm all for it.

[Vandellia]

food will cost we havent a clue yet on how much it will be based on number of transports to make x food item and the cost of any (if added) tech food will be cheaper then ambrosia has to be however unless tulga changes the current vision ie leaving in the old forms and making all confectioners have to scramble to buy the new more effective forms dont expect any confectioner to have food waiting for you when the change goes in and with the addition of new resources for the new food forms it may take the efforts of all the shards confectioners combined to find the new resources and get enough of them gathered to even try and make the new product. That being said we can not make assumptions untill it goes to blight we only have a hint of what is planned we dont have hard facts in writing yet wait and see is all i can suggest. At this point its simply an exercise in futility dont beat your head on the wall untill you actually have hard evidence.

[LaughingOtter]

True, it will probably all work out, but this still makes CNF the only school that really has a captive market and returning customers.

Not true. You're forgetting Alchemists and Tinkerers.

[Nexxus]

Aaaah but the difference is that potions are not really essential, they are nice but you can level just fine without them.

As for tinkerers.... I assume you mean kenaf fabricators and the like... And things like Sunscopes... I have never personally found these items usefull :/

Food on the other hand will be all but required for high level players. Someone mentioned 9 DPs killing fafnir in one night's playtime. Currently those would clear in 3 days. After the changes that would take 10.5 days to clear without food, meaning that if that person wants to go kill fafnir more often than once every 10.5 days they need to start buying food.

[AA0]

Killing Fafnir is not essential

[Devlyn]

Killing Fafnir is not essential

And who will go out killing Fafnir as long as he's got the ability for an (area) one-hit kill?
I never went from Fafnir without 2 DPs during the fight. And as a caster I'm able to try to stay outside his area range.

I'm OK with this new DP system. BUT: Take away one-hit-kill abilities from mobs, or no one will fight them any more.


Another point: As the Arena was thought to test taktics and have some fun with friends. Could you please switch off DPs on this island (or in PvP)? IMHO it doesn't make any sense there.

[LaughingOtter]

The Arena is a side project, not part of the game. If you don't want DP from playing there, don't play there.

[Devlyn]

The Arena is a side project, not part of the game. If you don't want DP from playing there, don't play there.

LOL. Why don't you just write "shut off" ?

This was a suggestion from me about DPs in a thread where the new DP system is discussed.
It also was a "side point" as the Arena is a side project.
Or do you want to close the thread with the words:
"Horizons is a game, not part of real life. If you don't want DP from playing there, don't play there." ??

[LaughingOtter]

You made a suggestion; I'm disagreeing. Death points are death points, no matter how you get them. I'm also against any on-the-clock time being spent on the Arena for any reason, including ideas like this.