Confectioner School

[Velea]

What LO means is that it's (# of ingredients) - negative 1.. also known as +1.

[Arietna]

um, not to contradict you Velea, as you must know what you're talking about..
(unless I'm misreading brackets or something)

but I read your formula (no of ingredients +1 = tier) as a tier one recipe needs 0 ingredients?? (0+1=1)

LO makes more logical sense, being (no of ingredients -1 = tier) so a tier 1 recipe needs 2 ingredients.. (2-1=1)

[Velea]

No, that's me reading what he'd said backwards.

I've always listed it as it as tier+1 = # of ingredients. That way when I was aiming for a tier 4 food, I would know I had to have at least 5 ingredients. I worked from the tier to the food, not from the food to make the tier. So I got all bass-ackwards.

Sorry about that.

[Kinto]

Ok, well going to Kala's link there is post by Amon here. On that post he lists all the resources by tier. Is that list still accuracte? If so, that answers that part for me.

Second, LO said the ingredient # was what affected the tier of dish. Unless the dishes use variable materials, then maybe a list of the dish tiers and ingredients needed could still be helpful, amounts not needed really. That's pretty close to just spitting out the formulas for us I know, but was just looking for ways to help confectioners stock up on resources for the tier meals they planned on making. Hopefully, helping lessen the delay for food to hit public taverns or consigners.

I have not seen the formulas and I'm copying a char over so that I can check them out. That might clear up some of my questions.

PS. I'm still wondering if DP times exceed T6 DP of 28 hours for players rated at 120+.

[Deth]

No T6/28 hours is the highest at least it was 2 years ago when they first talked about it.

[Kinto]

Thank you Deth, I hope so.

[AmonGwareth]

Correct, the length of time that a Death Point lasts does not exceed Tier 6 (28 hours).

Also, the amount of food required to remove a death point remains constant across the tiers... assuming:

1) You eat in a tavern
2) You eat food that is your tier

[Kala]

heehee, me too.......the storehouses are gonna be a pain in the dupa....

I finally have all mine finished as of yesterday. On to stocking! (At least, I hope I won't need more than what I have now.)

[awdz]

I might be wrong but i received more DP's when i was younger.. since i did not know how to hunt or when to run...
__________________
Roguar the Zerker
Drinker of Ale

i think i received more dp's when i started hunting with roguar ;-)

[Lio]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lio
One thing seems to be being totally, missed, ignored or not really considered (yet?) ..and this thread was started in 2006 ..Earthenware being taken out of the CNF Craft XP levelling equation ..

How many bakers do you know in real life who make all of their accessories as well as the food? I think the idea was twofold:

(by gopher65)

ANS: sure, in real life possibly, I can understand that ..but in Hz particularly.. no other Craft uses pots and pans, only Tinker that I know of uses Clay, we don't have a specific Pottery Craft, unless thats coming up in the works ..

1) Make sure that confectioners are actually making food to level, and not a bunch of pots and pans (cause that makes *no* sense),

(by gopher65)

ANS: ..understood and agreed, I said as a moderate part, jokingly saying leave it alone ..but involved in the XP equation in some way

2) Make up for the lost XP by raising the amount of XP they get from making food.

If I remember the original idea correctly levelling confectioner would now be *faster* than it was before due to the increased XP of foodstuffs.

(by gopher65)

ANS: ..absolutely, that makes perfect sense, but does STILL leave a hole as to who is making the pots and pans..unless a dedicated Pottery Craft comes in, or Tinkers now provide them, which again refers to the original point ..why not allow Conf's to make their own for some xp .. IF they want to level using that method, whats really the problem frankly ..other Crafts can level using other skills than what you would think their primary one would be (Metalworking and Tools for instance with a few)..however, getting something for it wouldn't, or shouldn't effect the whole revamp..

.. thats really my point.

possibly some info on what CLAY will be used for at some point might help here .. while this revamp looks a lot of fun, DP discussion excepted ..I really feel that taking a whole 6 tiers of basic resources out of a craft that was only one of 2 that used them at all anyhow, wasn't perhaps the best thought through idea

.. ADD something at the same time sure, a Pottery craft makes perfect sense with possible new construction abilities like Stucca housing or as a component of Food Storage silo's ..this would get Conf's (or Tinkers) having to assist with their own storage, which I would think might make some sense too.


..unless this is already being thought of, in which case ..np

[Deth]

Lio Amond has said clay will be a loose end for the foreseeable future. Clay will have no use till they come up with a new idea to use it with. So basically when you take the school you will be "given" a set of inviable cookware that you will use for your life time off cooking.

Also if you missed it you will only get XP for cooking so even if you could still make cookware you would not get any XP for it. Welcome to the world of the Laircrafter.

[Lio]

ok, well thats part of my original post question, and good to know ..answers directly some of the above for sure ..ty Deth.

..and yes, thats partly my point, removing it totally isn't the best move imho ..I understood it was being removed for that purpose, just didn't agree with the reasoning ..lol

[LaughingOtter]

You might say that the XP from making cookware already is involved in the equation, if you choose to look at it that way. One goal of the revamp is to require players to actually cook in order to progress. In order for that to happen, cooking a dish must result in meaningful XP. With each dish you make being worth more XP that old-version dishes, you could look at it as including the XP from making cookware if you don't like the idea of that XP being 'lost'.

My personal view of it is this: Bobby Flay did not become an Iron Chef by making pottery.

[Kinto]

Thank you Amon.

[AmonGwareth]

Lio, I understand your concerns. Maybe I help explain it a bit.

During the design process of Confectioner we came up with what we wanted for the ingredient scheme (Tier + 1) and then we had these pots and pans. Which basically turned the scheme into Tier + 2.

If we included pots/pans into the mix, Tier 1 resources would use only 1 food. 1 Tomato or 1 Apple really doesn't make a meal, especially a "Main Dish". So we started considering removing clay. We looked around and discovered that there was really very little use for clay or pots outside of confectioner. So would it really be missed if it was removed? The answer was no, it wouldn't.

The other part of the equation when considering removing it was that you would have an ingredient required for ALL dishes that the confectioner would get no XP for. And that the Confectioner support school, Gatherer, could not gather or process. Involving a third school seemed like an unnecessary complication to the system that was already VERY complicated.

So we cut it. Now, at some point (probably alchemist) we may rediscover uses for clay but at this time there are none. It will remain in-game but unused.

I hope this helps. Our goal was to make confectioner fun, to use the primary skill system, to make it varied enough that it wasn't just repetitively grinding Venison Stew over and over and over for XP and DP removal, and to create some potential reliance on at least one other school for support.

- Amon

[Goriax]

This is a response to Goriax's complaint that there is no food to be found on Order -- especially for dragons . . . . Drum roll please . . . . .

ANNOUNCING!

YE OLD PUB AND TAVERN OF APIA!
featuring the fine foods of Apia's Appetizers
OPEN TO ALL!


Come enjoy the benefits of dining in a fine tavern (sans furniture) at the home of the Elder Spirits in Apia. Foods currently prepared by Iron Confectioner Eissa (lvl 50) and Journeyman Nelgrag Longfoot (lvl 30). ES also has a third confectioner at level 32+ known as Galeana Twitchinstitch. We are looking for any other aspiring chefs to also contribute their goodies for all and sundry to enjoy.

Apia is a Journeyman confectioner's dream kitchen with kiln, mill, well, and oven open to all practitioners. The tavern keeper is looking for new tastes and flavors.

And, as the middleman for Journeyman Nelgrag Longfoot, I know the frustration of flying all over trying to find taverns who will accept Nelgrag's foodstuffs. I do believe that we would find more STOCKED taverns if the establishments were made open to ALL. Nelgrag has reported that enrollment in Fillet's School of Culinary Arts has grown tremendously of late, so, there are many chefs looking for places to place their wares. Also, I just relaized that I had better check with C`gan to find out where the other full service taverns are located -- I need more places to peddle Nellie's goodies. The one I know of is the T6 tavern in Last Stand. Need I say more?? Don't miss what it has to offer after that grand adventure (and then I won't have all of that 2-week old food returned into my vault for failure to sell) and each item is only coppers per serving. Such a Deal!

In all honesty, folks, Order does have a nice group of people who are out there doing their part to make this confectioner enterprise work, but it will always take all of us to participate for it to be a success. We need weary and bloodied adventurer's to eat our food. We need venues in which to sell it that are open to ALL and places in which to make it that are open to ALL. Some communities such as the ones C`gan mentioned, and Last Stand and Apia have set themselves up to serve as hubs for the food retail industry. It is a start It is FUN! It is also a great venue for Roleplaying

Eat! Drink! Be Merry! For tomorrow you will surely die and die and die and die . . . .
and Fillet's Army of Fastedious Hash Slingers will be there to revive you again.

Icabald Percival Dragon
GM of Elder Spirits
Marketing Manager for Apia's Appetizers

It's good to see some are planning to make the food. You're going to have to make a lot of it. I really hope this isn't the only tavern on Order (I'll have to dig out my map to even FIND Apia).

So...can any of you make tier 5 and 6 foods? (not sure if my level 100 dragon counts as tier 5 or 6). Because those will be the most needed I think. For lower tiers this won't be such a problem -- the penalty is less and it's easier to get a confectioner high enough to make the food so more food will probably be available. High tiers is where I see the problem.

One thing I think you do NOT have to worry about is customers as long as they know about you. Especially at high tiers.

Anyway, for better or for worse we'll see how this shakes out after the newness has worn off. I always expected many to dive in right now while it's new; the test is how it goes in the long haul.

I'm pessimistic that there will be much in a year but if I'm proven wrong that would be great. This is one place where I really hope to be proven wrong.

[Deth]

Level 100 is T5. T6 starts at 101, at least that is what I remeber from 2 years ago when that question was answered.

[AmonGwareth]

There are no tier 6 foods.

[Arietna]

I must admit, I am wanting to start confectioner as soon as the changes are made (and thus do it the fun way)... once I've got to the point I'm happy pausing building

[Zexoin]

I must admit, I am wanting to start confectioner as soon as the changes are made (and thus do it the fun way)... once I've got to the point I'm happy pausing building

I totally agree with you ^_^