Tango on Maps

[Korsh]

We were talkign with Tango in IRC today about the problem of Map-Paks being overwritten everytime there's an update. This is what he had to say:



TangoAE ok, I've brushed up on how maps work (its been a while).

TangoAE The intent was for custom maps not to go in resource_override, but instead be put directly into the /resources/interface/maps/ dir. This folder should protect from the patch.

TangoAE so if you want to make a new map, make a directory called /resources/itnerface/maps/MyNewMap/

TangoAE and copy the contents from another folder... modify as desired

TangoAE the patcher should not delete this custom directory

TangoAE can someone try that with a custom map they've made?

So... maybe one of you who designs the Map-Paks can weigh in on how this jibes with what you have designed or can try a mod to see if Tango's suggestion works. We also discussed the autocenter feature reverting the map to the 'Istaria' map but no resolution on that yet.

[Linea]

o jeez... the list of problems ....

1) Icons, custom icons need a place to go. Currently they have to go into resources...theme and get replaced.

2) UIMapWindow.def does not by default support enough layers, so we had to make a custom one and that has to go in resources...theme and gets replaced on a full scan

3) Autocenter - takes the smallest map by dimensions that will fit the current play location. you can hack this by making copies of existing maps and changing the dimensions by 0.01 so that your map is the "smallest" This however is not really satisfactory. Autocentering should either be done by a configurable list, or should have someway of remembering the map you manually select. Instead, everytime you move X increment, it recalculates what map is the smallest map for your new location and switches them. This basically forces us to use the default maps.

Note: the autocenter hack is a tad too subtle, only one mapper in the past year has actually used it. The functionality should be much better in some way.

Sslanis Map is WRONG. at least one other city map is wrong too.

Why should we have 2 maps for every city ? Why not just leave them unpatched and let our installer/uninstaller trigger replacements. If the file is there and is newer, leave it (it's a custom map). If the file isn't there, add it (we don't have it or it is a deleted custom map)

Map Themes, or Map "Sets" via a MapSet.def file that defines all the maps to use with a given set would alleviate this problem.

Any file with the same name in any directory in the map structure, or even sometimes outside the map structure, will be picked at random to replace the file in the proper directory location with the same name. Or in english, EVERY map file other than map.def MUST have a unique name in all the universe. Similarly, a copy of UIMapWindow.def anywhere in the directory structure, iether on purpose or by accident can cause serious problems.

Any/All City maps that are installed via a map-pack are always repatched on a full scan. Any/All Images installed in "factory" directories, whether with same or unique different names are also deleted and/or replaced.

Any/All def files modfied are replaced on a full scan

At one time, over 6 months ago, I submitted a long, very detailed, several page list of problems with mapping and customization (not just maps). It was as far as I know completely ignored. We've lost more mappers and customizers over these problems and inconsistencies than I can count.

Feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to give you a Real Email address or even a PHONE NUMBER if you are really and truely serious about fixing mapping and customization problems.

[Linea]

TangoAE and copy the contents from another folder... modify as desired

TangoAE the patcher should not delete this custom directory

TangoAE can someone try that with a custom map they've made?

It WILL leave those files alone. But is useless because of problems 1, 2, and 3 above.

[Linea]

/rant on

I begged, I pleaded, I emailed, I had Ginesh and other ask questions, I emailed AE employees directly. I did everything with the information I had. The only thing I did not do was Drive to Arizona and sit in their office till they either addressed my questions and concerns with Horzons customizations or had me arrested for Tresspassing.

Back in the spring one of the patches fubarred, I'll assume by accident, customisations including mapping. At that point I had Ginesh (at tazoon) threaten AE (with bad publicity) on my behalf over changes that temporarily made custom mapping and other customizations impossible. They did actually fix that in a way the next patch and said it was un-intentional. However that fix was too late for many. Over half of the customisers actively working on HZ at that time left over that inccident.

After months of nothing being done (improved by AE), I finally got burnt out and only now map to help support others. The truth is even my first project I did really only for the purpose of showing how it could be done and to help encourage others and to hopefully get a community mapping effort going. It really is more than any one person can do.

If AE really is concerned about fixing customisations, why not come here and post themselves. They even OWN this board. Why did they never come and discuss things with us while we were on Tazoon ? Oh, yes, we did once get ONE post telling us (not entirely correctly) how to do what we were already doing. Which if they had read the forum they would have known things where not working the way they thought/intended them to work and that what the posted was not entirely accurate.

Note: We may have later gotten a few more posts, but never anything even bordering on a discussion. I do know there were some more posts added later, closer to the demise of tazoon and after some of the changes at AE. I just can't quantitate them at them moment. I'm just ticked off at the moment because they just told us to do what the told us to do before that didn't work then and doesn't work now.

If AE really is serious about fixing the problems with customisations and mapping. Then I'll be more than happy to help, test, and do all those things I tried to do before only to be ignored. If they are ready, willing, and able. I am not however here for hollow promises. At this point I'd rather be ignored, and hear no news at all, than to be fed a bunch of hollow promises.

/rant off

[Vanaondo]

Rants on? I dont see this as ranting really Linnea. Its good if the devs or at least some devs follow this forum. Okay we have a bug report forum but as you say, if they are interested of the map system, then at least one dev should follow every thread here.

There wasnt so many posts each day at the player customation forum, thatat leastone dev should be able to follow the debate but as so many left the projects, maybe there was loads of posts untill I joined the forum? Following the debate is much more appritiated than just a flash visit, if there is time for the devs to do so but maybe the situation is that the devs have a very very tight schedule? I think so or they had been active at our forum really.

I remember before I made my own version of the map pack, me complaining to you over the corrupt Sslanis map. *grins* Fortynally both Sslanis and Chiconis maps are fixed at Pekkas Map Pack.

(I been working with v2.2 tonight by the way, wich should be out in 2 days if Im lucky)

[Shiza]

Yay! Eager to get your new map, Pekka, almost as eager as seeing the light of the new unified shard! [:D]