Introduce NEED into the economy

[Aamer Khan]

For some reason, the developers, have never wanted to make us have needs in this game. Rent or tax on properties has been dismissed. Vendor sold items that we ALL have to consume regularly, is somehow viewed as bad for the game.

Sense of accomplishment can be had from crafting structures here, because you must level a variety of classes to do it, you must work hard and be willing to put in the time to have it, and you have the finished structure to admire.

Dragons coming up sense accomplishment as they complete quests, and get to fly. Also the same as crafters, when they finish a lair room.

Fighters really only have it with added levels, skills or new classes.

Once a player gets high enough, what do we see? Multi classed fighters and crafters with lots of money, nothing to spend it on but the occasional fluff item like shoulder treants or spiders. There is no war to keep them busy, and even if there were, the gear they had last year is still in perfect shape this year... nothing really has changed.

I would like to suggest to the developers to Introduce NEED into the mix.

Apply a monthly tax to Guild properties that would put a property in danger of being reclaimed.

Add a componant to ALL crafted items like sandpaper or "flux" that cannot be gathered or looted and can only be bought from Imperial vendors.

Add more cargo disks that can port but increase the portal costs. Make cargo disks you can recall with, but make them require charges that can only be purchased and not crafted. ( enhanced Tarbash? )

Add an anti-aggro shield that can be used by pure crafters, so that they may gather in dangerous places. Make it last 15 minutes, and the t5 version could cost 5 silver.

As proof of these additions motivating players to play and become a part of the economy... The reason I came back was to prevent my 2 guild communities from being reclaimed. I will heartly embrace any of these 3 changes, if you put them in.

Players, Please add YOUR suggestions. And please don't just say things are fine or that you don't want any changes... too many still complain about the lack of economy for such comments to be believed anymore.

[Xarog]

I support the principle of the post, but I'm not sure about the actual methods you suggest.

I don't think people should be taxed on plots, for instance - the penalty for not complying seems a bit stiff.

Regarding crafting, it was pointed out to me that a single player can supply an entire shard with EVERYTHING it needs without too much trouble, assuming they had all the neccessary levels. I think it would be a better solution to change this, so that making armour or a weapon really took quite a bit of effort (and as a result, gave alot more experience per creation). If more crafters were needed to supply a shard with everything it needs, that would automatically create a NEED in the economy.

I think there should be a money sink in the game (though I'm not sure exactly how to go about doing that - perhaps having imperial resource vendors that actually sell you raw materials instead of forcing you to harvest them yourself). Money should also be more meaninful.

[Cheopis]

I also agree with the principle yet take issue with the methods described.

There are already need based requirements in the game. but these needs are supplied by players for the most part. Recharge kits for one, potions for another.

As a possible idea that would add a little more to the game and do some of what you seem to be asking for...

Perhaps there should be armor and/or weapon maintenance kits? If you strike a critical blow, or if you are hit by a critical blow, your weapon or armor take a small amount of permanent damage that must be repaired with a expendable repair kit. The armor/weapons cannot be fully destroyed, but they can be rendered almost useless if enough damage accrues. Let all of the craft classes that can make tools create these kits, and have them be teired. Create a npc vendor to supply them as well, but charge a lot for them, so they will be available to players even if no player happens to be selling any.

Taxes? no, please. I pay enough taxes in real life :P

[Helcat]

craftable items as money sinks is not the answer,
due to the fact that a high percentage of veteran
players are already experenced crafters, and could
simply do what they do now, which is craft what
they need. We need some real money sinks in this
game... not negative ones like taxes, but positive
ones... fluff, expensive "customization" options,
exotic materials/items/ingredients that cost A LOT...
not just a few silver here and there... a few HUNDRED
silver here and there... several GOLD for the really good
stuff... we need to remove some of the accumulated
wealth, along with introducing some real NEED to
spend... the need to earn will follow, along with
a return to service, where crafters actually CRAFT
for others! And adventurers actually ADVENTURE!!
Imagine that!!! *sarcasm off*

[Cheopis]

Hrm Helcat, the first thing that comes to mind that seems like a possibility for a money sink for advanced craft and adventure players would be NPC's which could cast long-term buffs on you for a price.

Say, a 5% haste buff that lasts 2 hours, and stacks with other buffs. Ooooh or perhaps a biped flight buff, heheh. The problem is that any worthwhile buff will increase the power of these highly powerful characters, and that will increase their money making capacity...

Perhaps a private transport system could be created by some very enterprising gnomes. It's a remarkable breakthrough! You activate the gizmo you bought from the gnome, and you recall - but not to your recall point! You recall to a huge collection of teleportation devices in a buried chamber, which will allow you access to any location in the game which you are attuned to. Each use of one of these devices would destroy the device, and they are not cheap. People _will_ pay for that. If the teleportation devices are teired, and expensive for their teir, but not unaffordably so, it will be a money sink, but also be a good thing to have.

Heh, that's all for my clever ideas for the night :P

[Vlisson]

i would hate if they would add taxes ingame

give the players something of worth to spend their money on.

cool stuff:
armor/weapons/spells with unique look
add ons to buildings (other trees, other colour of your house)
master forms ^^ (vielo have done a great job on the Expert ones)

epic school classes which need money to join or to lvl up as a training fee
or charge a fee for class switch at all

like mentioned above: gnome experimental stuffs like cargo discs, mass teleporting systems (hey valkor is up who wants to join? teleport ID 735 all who wants to join will be teleported to this guy)

add decay to ALL things except t1, all crafter can build a repair kit of their items with 1 needed item you get only from vendors? but no perma destoyed items please like the blighted stuff

[Sigi]

Sorry that I can't come up with any suggestions, it's perhaps because I'm not that economy driven. I'm playing for over 2 years now, main adv. lvl is 70, highest craft allmost 81. I'm not rich
I don't like the NEED in real life, I have to work hard there to be able to pay the bills, buy food, pay the rent, etc. and I really don't like the idea to have to do the same in game. I play to relax not for trying to run the same rat race but now as a Saris

[Tantalyr]

First off, I've never bought into the notion that the economy is "broken." Sure, some players have accumulated a ton of gold and suggest that they have nothing to spend it on. That alone is not an indicator of a "broken" economy--it merely means that something should be introduced that players would want (not need) to spend their coin on.

Nor is there some rampant refusal by high level crafters to craft items for low to medium level players, at least not on Order. The New Trismus consignor is almost always well stocked with items for new and low level players, and I rarely see any player asking in Market go more than an hour or so without having the item he/she wants crafted.

That said, I do indeed believe that some things should be introduced that players will want--again, not need--to plunk down their coins on. Instead of taxes (which I, like other posters, pay enough of in real life), implement the Holy Fluff--like the following:

1) NPC Hair Stylists: Want to change your hair style to a long ponytail? Want a beard or mustache? Want to change your hair color? Just visit your nearest Imperial Spa, drop some healthy silver down and get it done--the more you want your hair changed (length, color, style, facial hair), the more silver it will cost you. And change your hair every day if you like (and have the coin).

2) NPC Dragon Spas: Have you dragonkin ever wanted to change (or even just tweak) your colors and/or design? Plop down some healthy silver at the Imperial Dragon Tatoo parlor and get 'er done.

3) Revisit the Creation Screen: Have you ever thought that you'd like a total makeover of your character? Not changing species or races, mind you, but would you like to be taller? Shorter? More stout? As skinny as Twiggy? Maybe get a tan while you're at it? Bring a whole bag full of coins and take a trip back to the character creation screen and get that dream makeover you've been pining for.

Just a few ideas there to make the point once again--most of us would much rather not need to earn coin. Rather, we'd much rather have things we want to spend it on.

[Vandellia]

Dragons didnt like passive Hoard drain as it forced them constantly to scrounge for hoard adding a tax on plots would force people into constant crafting or adventuring just to make sure they have enough to pay taxes which will im sure enrage the majority of players as a counter idea why not create the ability with in any settlement to "upgrade" the settlement ie improved roads additonal lights small farms all which could be "purchased then have to be build upgrading an area sounds like both fun and a good idea to create more money flow . I would also like to suggest that perhaps in the large guild settlement islands that the empire could "establish" a trade center with both craft and adventure trainers on the island if the community paid a fee for its implementation and then the players would have to build the structures.

Additonally if /when furnature comes in a lot of players will be spending money to get the stuff built hopefully existing structures will be "upgradable" so that we can include furnature in them as well

[AmonGwareth]

In order to create an economy with need throughout, you NEED several things.

* Such as a demand for items throughout the entire economy (not just Tier 1). That can be handled quite well with mechanisms such as item decay or attuning.

* You need items or armor or things that people want. Be that, equipment sets like blighted items (but better), tech components, trophies, collectibles, etc.

* You need more ways to take money out of the economy, such as fees for portals, for use of some things, etc.

Tantalyr is right, the economy isn't totally broken. But it is mostly broken in that there isn't consistent demand throughout the game and there isn't demand for some things at all.

[Cheopis]

Honestly I hope that HZ stays away from a Need economy. Putting more things in that people Want will be very good, but even doing that runs the risk of taking some of the importance away from player crafters if you are not careful.

I love the ideas of a makeover spa, and town upgrades. Especially town upgrades that would help fix the huge transportation slowness issue, roads and teleporters.

Perhaps an ability to plunk down a serious chunk of change - on the order of several mithril, to hire surveyers to come out to a certain location and survey you a 40x40 plot in the wilderness. This would require Dev direct input and time though, and would likely take a lot of their time for the first short while after introduction of the idea :P One plot survey per account, maximum, and even if the surveyers turn you down, they will not return all of your money, though if they turn you down, you can request another survey that is of an area at least several hundred yards from your first choice.

[Vlisson]

i remember slightly that AE employed a economic expert (but never heared about anything he has done for HZ)

but i hope you will add something important we need to pay for and not only implement taxes

[Cheopis]

i remember slightly that AE employed a economic expert (but never heared about anything he has done for HZ)

but i hope you will add something important we need to pay for and not only implement taxes

LOL I remember reading about AE hiring an economist and thinking to myself that the idea of an economist who deals with reality trying to make sense of the hash of an economy in any mmo game would be silly. The only online game I've played whose economy is even remotely similar to real life is EVE.

If said economist was a gamer, and understood mmos, and had played several of them, then I would think that the combination of real life economics and a real understanding of mmos might yield some interesting results.

If said economist was not a gamer, they would probably throw their hands up in the air after a week of trying to explain concepts of economy to devs, and the devs trying to explain code realities back to them :P

[Jaraiden]

The simple fact is that item and building decay would help create a money sink. Items do decay from use, buildings from the elements (and WA attacks).

Thus there could be come "tax" or "maintenance fee" to account for that - and if not paid the machines becomes less effective (and on the flip side, the owner could set a usage fee to enter that plot).

The Empire needs more than portal fees to support itself.

[Aamer Khan]

You see?

The true issue is we want an economy, we want reasons to buy things, but we don't want what it will take to get them.

You do realize that the current PB implementation, is to encourage crafters to charge for crafting regular items, since they cannot farm PBs anymore. The reason we all still don't do it is because there is no need.

I'm not sure if Ophelea had this in mind when she commented, but the facts are that there are still more vet players active in the "economy" than new or mid level ones. Because of this, something more than portal costs and PB restrictions are needed to make a viable economy.

But perhaps like tant said, they don't feel the economy is broken. If the majority of players feel the same way, then this has just been a suggestion from the peanut gallery. If they DO feel it is broken, then PLEASE do something about it.

[Crazyfingers]

Hookers, booze, gambling, tobacco, and war.
Works for most economies

NimK

[Crazyfingers]

From an outside pov.

Is the vielo still selling tech comps? If so this is still the major problem. Hunters must have a basic reason to be out hunting. Supply and demand.

Instead of allowing everyone to build everything they want on their plot, make them buy permits for each type of structure. As your wealth grows, the more permits you can buy for better tiered structures to build. 1 silver for a tier I silo, 100,000 silver permit for a tier V silo, etc etc.

Rare items and expensive as hell fluff items.

More needed consumables and item decay.

In my opinion, taxes wont work. Who likes taxes?

Like Amon said, you have to take some money out of the system. But there must be a benefit to it. No benefits in taxes in a gaming world. Buying permits to put up more silos or better tiered structures has benefits worth the coin.

Offerings to the Gods, the gifted are given a quest to build a sacred temple out in the middle of nowhere. once built, any player that makes a 10s offering gains 50 health or power or spirt (any attribute) for a long period of time(week). takes money out of the system but has benefits.

NimK

[Cheopis]

Gambling halls would be pretty cool - they could even be implemented into existing structures - taverns.

[Robins]

Gambling halls already exist and are buildable on plots.

[Peaches]

In order to create an economy with need throughout, you NEED several things.

* Such as a demand for items throughout the entire economy (not just Tier 1). That can be handled quite well with mechanisms such as item decay or attuning.

* You need items or armor or things that people want. Be that, equipment sets like blighted items (but better), tech components, trophies, collectibles, etc.

* You need more ways to take money out of the economy, such as fees for portals, for use of some things, etc.

Tantalyr is right, the economy isn't totally broken. But it is mostly broken in that there isn't consistent demand throughout the game and there isn't demand for some things at all.

*No NEW TAXES*? *G*
Heh, I really think it would take the fun away from the game, having to pay taxes on something that I am building, and trust me, taking me about 12 weeks to solo build an expert shop, then turn around to pay taxes? Heavens no, PLEASE NO! *g*