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Thread: Suggestion : Masterwork crafted items.

  1. #1

    Default Suggestion : Masterwork crafted items.

    There has been some pretty fierce discussion recently on needs/wants/desires/crafting/decay, etcetera.

    During said discussions, I read someone's post about masterwork items. I liked the idea, so I hijacked it. I added my flavor to it and stuck it in another post. Now after a while I've had more ideas, and I would like folks to comment on a masterwork concept, revised :P

    When a crafter who can make weapons, tools, jewelry, armor, or spells reaches lvl 100, he can go on a quest to gain the ability to make ONE sort of masterwork item. That's it, just one. Players need not choose a masterwork class immediately upon reaching their first lvl 100 class, they can do the quest at any time, provided that they do it when they are active as a lvl 100 crafter that can make techable items.

    HZ has the services of a great quest designer, so I'll not try to steal his thunder

    After completing the quest, the crafter can now create masterworks in his chosen specialty. Chain armor, hide armor, shields, piercing weapons, 2h blunt weapons, 1h slashing, strength jewelry, dexterity jewelry, blight spells, cold spells, etcetera. Fairly specific classes of items, but not extremely specific.

    Creating a masterwork weapon would require a huge amount of components, and many many different types of components. A sample recipe :

    Masterwork short sword :

    1) perfect short sword
    2) 1 soul shard
    3) 10 blight cores
    4) 50 bright essence
    5) Adamantium rune stylus
    6) Scroll of soul binding (bought from vendor)
    7) materials for up to three techs

    The perfect short sword would have it's own recipe
    1) 500 Mithril bars
    2) 100 Adamantium bars
    3) 50 hide strips
    4) 200 silver bars
    5) 100 gold bars
    6) 50 bright essence
    7) 50 Ironsilk
    8) blah blah

    You get the idea. The actual masterwork would be created in two (or more?) steps. The first step(s) could be completed anywhere appropriate to that type item. The last step MUST be completed at a capital city forge, or perhaps some special location related to the masterwork quest itself. The scroll mentioned in the first recipe could be anything, so long as it is vendor bought, and not cheap.

    Creating the item would have a 100% success rate, but would require a 5 minute timer (with comments like the test of strength, heh), and have a 24 hour cool down (or more?)

    Upon completion, the masterwork has a strange appearance, but would appear (statwise) to be just a normal triple teched item with slightly better than normal damage. BUT when the intended user (MUST be lvl 100 in a class appropriate to the item) wields it (or scribes it), there is a verification box [You feel as if something is trying to bind to your soul, are you sure you wish to continue?] If yes, there is a massive ingame flash around the character (lots of fireworks) and the masterwork would modify it's stats, randomly increasing it's already superior damage, and adding a additional (different) tech based off the skillset of the character wielding it. The item would also bind to you, and could only be stored in your vault, or on your person, or some other location where it is impossible for another to damage it or delete it somehow.

    Masterworks have a certain lifetime, but they only count down when equipped (and the player is in-game). When the lifetime of the masterwork runs out, a message appears telling the player something like [the soul imbued in your masterwork <x> has been fading for some time, and has become too faint to be effective any longer] there is then a 5 minute timer bar like a breath bar that appears on your screen. When that timer is gone, the masterwork becomes a very valuable hoard item.

    This could also be done with spells, but one would have to create a spell scroll and then drag and drop it onto a hotkey like tools or weapons. When the masterwork spell expires, it becomes a hoardable item, instead of simply fading from memory.

    There would be no recharging of masterwork items. They are designed to be status symbols, useful items, and fluff all rolled into one. With a significant charge for the vendor bought item required to make the masterwork, it could be a fair money sink too.

    And there was much tweaking and changing of ideas, lol

    So what do you folks think?

  2. #2
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    i like the idea of masterworks

    and yes it would be great if 1 char could only get the ability for 1 kind of masterwork.

    the needed resources should be some achievement and not made in a short time

    should it have a certain lifetime? it should decay yes, but it would be nice if you can repair it. But it would be good if they have a permanent decay

    but i dont like to loose my items i possess ^^

  3. #3

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    Vlisson I think it would be good if Masterworks did degrade completely, that way there would always be work for top teir crafters, catering to top teir adventurers. Everything else in the game that is techable is permanent (or rechargeable) right now. Masterwork items should be status symbols, Big Fluff, time sinks, and coin sinks. Fun, and with a bit of uncertainty and wonder. Will my extra tech on my masterwork sword as a Battlemage be T6 Crush Ward this time, or T6 sword skill ? By having masterworks degrade to uselessness over time, there is a taste of uncertainty. Perhaps one might be able to re-invigorate the soul shard in the masterwork, at significant cost, but only a 50% chance of success?
    I dunno, but eventually I think it best if Masterworks would poof, so crafters at the top end would have work replacing them. Mostly though, I think the suspense involved in seeing what will make you masterwork different *this time* will be the most fun. But that might be just me.

  4. #4

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    Permanent decay is not something you should add to this game. Loosing something forever is not fun.
    It should be repairable, but as it is a masterwork, again, only the best is good enough to repair. So maybe it would be better that after a while the cost to repair it get so high that the cost for a new masterwork may seem tempting.
    Last edited by Salis; June 2nd, 2006 at 09:43 AM.

  5. #5

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    Salis I didn't even think about that angle, but yes, escalating costs for multiple repairs on a masterwork would be good too, and it would most certainly be a coin sink. Eventually the repairs would get too costly, and you would have to let it go. I like it.

    *EDIT* *All below this line is new*

    I can see it now that folks who have been hearing me on other threads are shaking their heads and saying "Now he wants permanent item destruction? Huh?"

    A lvl 100 adventurer or crafter is going to have other, permanent gear of high quality. Losing a masterwork will simply mean reverting to the gear that is available (more or less) to everyone else of their class and level. The Prestige and fluff factor is key here, the utility of the item is critical too - you want people to want masterworks (if they get implemented) but they should be considered to be something like a _very_ long duration potion or buff, not a permanent addition to the character. Most of us crafters love the feeling we get when we supply someone with something nice. If masterworks will eventually degrade to uselessness, crafters will be able to have repeat business with even the top end adventurers, and adventurers will be getting very cool, long duration "buffs"
    Last edited by Cheopis; June 2nd, 2006 at 09:53 AM.

  6. #6
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    im fine with decay for masterpieces

    but it should be repairable and the item should never been destroyed completely

    maybe like mentioned with higher repair costs each time, but then you decide if its worth the effort

    and to repair i dont think about repair kits, i would like to see a craft/trade window where you give your item the crafter, he repairs it and you get your item back, so social interaction is needed not only buy at consi

    this trade window should be secured, so that the crafter can only repair it if the other pays the price

    add on: my personal view: if t6 will decay permanent then i would choose the weaker t5 stuff (only if t6 boosts in power i would consider to wear decaying stuff)

  7. #7

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    Not to bad at all until ya mentioned that it becomes a hoard item. There's enough of that crap around as it is. If it's a biped item just let it disappear.
    Kwinn
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    Heavily multiclassed Human Hunter, 'overpowered' to the nth degree of beejeezusness and damned proud of it. Nerf me, go ahead make my day

  8. #8

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    Heh Kwinn, I thought that the hoard value of an expired masterwork was one of the nicer points, tying up a loose end about what to do with the item. Dragons would have masterwork scales and claws and such, just like bipeds, but we all know who has to pay to fight (even without potions and such).

    Creating another little bit of hoard (well, a lot of hoard) while simultaneously providing a appropriate place for masterworks to go seemed a good idea to me at the time. Just right clicking and selecting delete seems like a painful end for a magnificent crafted item.

    Perhaps dragon hoards could have a separate category listing the number of expired masterwork items they have collected over time? This could be a way to add hoard prestige to the game (It's not just the size of your hoard, but the quality of what is in it), perhaps even some bonuses for dragons since they use fewer pieces of gear than bipeds? Maybe as a dragon adds more masterwork items to their hoard, hoard-based attacks could gain bonuses to armor penetration, for example?

  9. #9

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    Yes, this is quite a lot like how I have envisioned masterwork item creation should work like. Lots of work, long quests and timers, checks to prevent a masterwork class item from becoming too common. What I especially like is the idea of having player to choose only one category where they can create masterwork items, ever. That way even those who have multiclassed to the hilt have to make choice about their specific area of expertise. My thought however has been to allow masterworks across all tiers, so even beginning players would have access to exemplary versions of equipment of their tier.

    A masterwork item wouldn't need any complex new technologies to attune - just make it Bind on Equip and it'll never leave the character it was meant for. Having randomizers for their qualities would need to be balanced (and coded in too) so it might be better if masterworks were in their final shape immediately.

    Masterworks probably would need to decay. Then again I've always been an advocate of decay on all items.

    Dragon adventurer 100 | Dragon crafter 100 | Dragon lairshaper 84

  10. #10

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    I like the idea, but if something like this were to be done, I would hope the materials wouldn't be so generic, and that a masterpiece weapon would involve more processing steps and just not put ironsilk spools right on the sword.

  11. #11
    Member Helcat's Avatar
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    I've always been in favor of this concept,
    and can't wait for something like it to be
    implemented... the sooner the better, IMO.
    Got Cowbell?

  12. #12

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    Varangaard the problem with creating masterwork items at any other teir than the top is this :

    Unless masterworks at low teirs are game-breakingly overpowered, the masterwork t2 item you might get made would be less effective than a generic teir 3 item with a couple decent techs.

    So... either low teir masterworks are outgrown quickly and discarded, cheapening them, or they break the game by giving folks with masterworks a huge advantage over those who do not.

  13. #13

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    AAO the list of components I made up was just an example. I certainly HOPE they will be more esoteric than what I listed :P

  14. #14

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    I had a thought today about how to implement maintenance on Masterwork items.

    In my concept of a Masterwork, it is actually inhabited by a soul, hence the inclusion of the soul fragment in the recipe list. While this was just an example, I still like the idea of the soul shard being a critical component in a masterwork.

    This avenue of thought led me to the idea I had today about masterwork maintenance. When the soul in the masterwork begins to fade, and can no longer empower the item, players would have the option of going to a special NPC in a swanky temple in Tazoon, and paying a fee to have the item revitalized. The catch is that it would be revitalized by YOUR soul's energy. Being gifted, you can recover from such damage to your life force, but each time you revitalize a masterwork, it would require more of your soul's energy.

    Example:
    Say a masterwork charge will last one week while actively being worn (or kept in inventory in the case of a masterwork spell scroll) After that week of use it up, the message appears, the weapon loses power, and the player goes to recharge it, pays the fee, AND the one death point. After another week, the death point cost is now two, after the third week, the death point total goes to three. The ritual costs the same to perform, but the cost in death points escalates.

    Needless to say, eventually the penalty for recharging masterwork items will be _very_prohibitive. This would also restrict the total number of masterwork items that players would use regularly. You might see heroes go to do battle with epic bosses in full masterwork sets, but they aren't going to go hunting in full masterwork gear all the time unless they are buying a full set of new masterworks every week (or maybe two, heh) of use.

  15. #15

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    Happens in most games that your level 20 Legendary Sword of the Kings is gonna get superceded by level 30 rusty broad sword. Or to put in actual game perspective, at level 60 those low-level 'epic' items are gonna look like toys. I see absolutely no problem with higher tier craftables being better that lower tier masterworks. The quests for these masterworks, and their capabilities, jsut need to scale properly to tier so that they are: not too powerful, not too hard to make for the tier. The only difference with tier V masterworks would be that character level progression presently halts there, so they'd just happen to be getting used more.

    I'm unsure if a death points would be enough of a penalty to charge an item. I'm sure some would be perfectly capable of taking even a frightening burden of death points. All they need to do is avoid death, which for well-multiclassed people means just avoiding boss fights as they can oneshot you.

    Dragon adventurer 100 | Dragon crafter 100 | Dragon lairshaper 84

  16. #16

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    Heh, if adding 1 death point to the cost of recharging a masterwork for each time you recharge it isn't enough, then double it each time. After 5 recharges in the first method, one would have 5 death points as a recharge penalty. If you doubled it each time, you would have 16 death points after the fifth recharge, and it just gets severely ugly after that.

    But honestly, would that really matter? If someone was capable of taking 64 death points and still fighting and getting exp, that's an incredible accomplishment, but with 128? no, I don't think so. It would take time, but eventually a continually used masterwork _would_ become too much of a burden to kep. If it was a truly incredibly nice combination of techs, perhaps one might recharge it one last time and put it in the vault for those special occasions when it will really make a difference, then hope your new masterwork will be almost as good.

    Playtesting would be required to determine a balance between cost, time, penalty and utility in Masterwork recharging and use, if they even like any of these ideas.

  17. #17
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    i like the ideas

    but please allow 1 char only 1 ability to craft 1 kind of masterwork (only swords for example)

    we need some unique feature and not that everyone can craft everything.

    If there is a specialisation it would be a good thing for me!

  18. #18

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    I'd go farther than that, Vlisson. I don't think that restricting a character to being able to make only one specific masterwork is good, I would like to see players be able to make several types, BUT no more than say 4-6 items.

    Masterwork metal gauntlets and sleeves, for example, or masterwork tailored head and chest. Masterwork 1 handed slash, masterwork strength jewelry. Restrict the masterworks to a very small set, but not just 1 or two items.

  19. #19
    Anima
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    <waves!>

    Mmmm.... juicy imagination stirring thread!

    Masterwork potions!

    Examples:
    Masterwork potion: Caster's Delight.
    Bolster power, bolster focus, bolster health with a blunt/slash/pierce ward/resistances. Needs the regents from all three potions aswell as a ghost vapor and a sword/hammer and/or spear of appropriate tier.

    Masterwork potion: Crafter's Edge; Metal.
    Bolster health, quint's quickstep, bolster strength, metal reaping potion with extended durration. Needs the regents from all four potions aswell as a golem fragment and metal bar of appropriate tier.

    Masterwork potion: Taste of fire
    Bolsters tooth and claw, bolsters breath, G's Thicken skin with a boosted soothing remedy effect. Needs a head scale, dragon claw, two soothing remedy potions and the regents of G's Thicken skin.

    Well, thats fun to think about...Mmm... confectioner seems to already have "masterwork" stuff in the pipeline with the mystical foods. I just hope that spiffyness reaches all of the schools.

    <Waves!>

  20. #20

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    Hmmm masterwork potions...

    I like it too, but they would need to be handled differently than masterwork permanent items, both for creation and for frequency of use, and allowable frequency of manufacture.

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