Here's two for the Pony list

[Rocinante]

I think there are many more areas of Istaria to be discovered. Most of them are places we see but don't interact with all. A flight spell would aid bipeds to go where jumping isn't enough. A swiming skill and/or breath underwater spell would open up rivers, lakes and oceans.

These changes would open up a whole new world to explore with new teh possiblity of a whole new world of challenges, like fighting undead sharks off the coast of the Eastern Deadlands.

Rocinante

[Salis]

NO Flight ability spell for BIPEDS please.
It is an ability that makes dragons unique and we had to work hard for it.

Consider this:
If you give every one flight ability, we dragons need something in return.
Maybe help the Helians finally being decent spellcasters. Give them access to all spells except maybe blighted or summoners versions.
How would you feel as a biped if dragons can use every spell in the game. After all as a dragon crafter we can scribe the formula and make them for you bipeds. But we cannot learn them. A bit strange in my opinion.
If you want you could make it so that the stats are a bit lower for each level than a biped would have. Like +7/+8 to nature, mind, ... Instead of +10 for a Druid or a Mage.

[Seranthor]

Salis, you'll forgive me I hope, but dont dragons already have it all?... flight, damage shield, rez, AoE spells, one shot kills, buffs, regen, 5k carry capacity in combat scales. What else is there that you dont already have?

I'm not in favor of flight or swimming, but trying to convince us that dragons are the redheaded stepchildren no longer washes. L45 dragons fighting mith golems, L90 taking on a dozen mith golems and successfully defeating them and surviving. Please dont insult us by claiming downtrodden or needing 'more'.

[Salis]

Seranthor of all the things listed what is it that bipeds don't have already in one form or another? They all got it and better.
They too have a perfect Healer Res, they too can carry a big load, just equip cargo equipment, they have a damage shield, AeO spells, one shot kills, buffs, regeneration, ... They have it all, and better. Yes to have it better they need to multiclass.
So what they can multiclass, as a dragon I have no (and I chose for that) choice.
In the end you want to give away the one thing that is unique to dragons, and makes sense to keep it dragon only. If one biped race should get it, than I feel it are dryads, make a burst spell, put it on a timer, make it something like breathing under water. I don't care, but do not make it a generalized thing, do not make everybody able to fly.

Salis

[AA0]

A biped does not gain a damage shield and perfect res in the same school, no single school is capable of doing everything a dragon can in one single level 100.
A very short duration of flight or super jump might be a neat idea, like a potion with 15s duration.

[Seranthor]

Salis, Sir, and we have to PAY for all that with our adventure rating. Dragons kind Sir get all those for being even the most marginal with NO rating penalty. Oh you say equip cargo gear, sure, and we have to surrender an ungodly amt of armor to do that. Wyrms dont.

Show me a L100 single classed biped that can do all that a L100 dragon can. I'll be waiting.

[Deth]

Give bipeds a flight spell as long as it has a time limit and a hight limit is fine. That way it will not infringe on Dryads no time limit with Hight limit flight, when it comes out, or Dragons flight. That is a very fair option I belive.

[Salis]

SARCASTIC MODE ON
You now what Tulga, seems some people cannot decide what they want.
Better yet. They want it all.
So do away please with all the different races and school.
Just make it so that races don't matter anymore.
Make it so that their is only 1 School. and do away with the leveling please. Leveling grind sucks, I want to be at the max the moment I create my character. Furthermore I want to be able to taking on 100 Valkor's at the same time. Solo ofcourse. I want to deal out 10 Gazillion damage with each kind of damage all at once with only using my standard Area of Attack UBER kill hack, slash nature, mind, blight, flame, ... damage swing spell.. And I want to be able to wear armor that no monsters can bypass, so that they never can hit me.
And I want to be able to quarry, mine, gather and carry all the base resources required for a TIER VI Grand Hall, all my TIER VI Machines, STORAGEs, ... in one go, cause I don't like to port cause it sometimes crashes my computer and I don't want to look on my character mining cause it sucks, I rather KILL stuff.
And I .... I , I don't want to drown, cause it sucks, and I never want to be able to die, I am gifted, I AM UBERLEET. I can do it all, and I want to be able to PVP. I want to woop all the other players asses, And I want to grief, and I want to kill steal, and I want to rip them off, and I want a Million Mithril so that I can buy it all, and I want to be able to own all the plots, and lairs on the server? and I shouldn't pay for them, cause paying sucks, and I want it so that nobody else can own a lair cause I am the LAIRMASTER hahahaaaaaaaaaaa.
And ofcourse to top it ALL.
I want to fly. Fly I tell ya, muhaahhahah.
Hmm better yet. I want to be able to point a place on the map and instant teleport to it. That would be NEAT.
SARCASTIC MODE OFF

Choices people choices, you cannot have it all, deal with it.
Want to fly, play a dragon. Want to multiclass play a Biped.

If you are so envious of dragons dear Seranthor, why don't you play with your dragon as they seem so much better than bipeds and just delete those other toons.

[Varangaard]

I'd say for as long as biped are able to multiclass to a point where their normal attack swing does 500-750 against a named boss mob, cleaves and crits and multis 2000+, and some bosses receive 5000+, and all this without sacrificing game time (scavenger hunt for hoard) they don't have much to complain in damage dealing department. It takes multiclassing, but it is an option for each and every one of them to choose or not.

Biped flight will probably make its way ingame eventually, as spells, potions, or both. Most likely capped in duration as well as maximum altitide, which then increase by tier.

[Seranthor]

Salis I have a 100/100/100/26M+ dragon... and I have my ped... I'm not suffering dragon envy, I'm simply pointing out the FACTS that Dragons are NOT these underpowered, underappreciated ground slugs that you seem to imply with your statements. I'm simply stating that they ARE extremely formidable opponents in their own right and they no longer need to be benefactors of the DAAP (thats Dragon Affirmitive Action Program). And as I've already stated in my FIRST response in this thread I do NOT support flight or swimming for peds.


PS. I'm waiting for you to show me a single classed L100 ped that can do what a L100 dragon can do.

[AA0]

um.. huh? Multiclassing isn't game time? The countless hours to grind and grind? As well many classes are not capable of of outputting that damage ever.

[Varangaard]

um.. huh? Multiclassing isn't game time? The countless hours to grind and grind?

It is. But once you reach the damage level, it costs zero hours to maintain that level.

As well many classes are not capable of of outputting that damage ever.

Which is besides the point. Everyone can choose to go that way if they want to, which makes it the damage level to compare with. Comparing dragon to a singleclassed biped is not valid either, as it does not represent a biped capped in advancement options.

Dragons are very powerful as a single school tank. But to say we are on par with well-multiclassed biped is not facing reality.

[Jayne]

No, a dragon is not some underpowered class, thats for sure.

[Salis]

Some seem to think that I find a dragon underpowered, or at least give me that impression.
I do not think that dragons are underpowered. Certainly not.
But keeping comparing dragons to single level bipeds is useless. On of Horizons' major assets is the fact that you can unhindered (except by time constraints) level a biped in multiple classes.
On the other side you have a dragon, a formidable creature on his/her own.
And one of the things that make it unique are it's capability of flight.
I would find it VERY disturbing to see that asset handed out randomly to other bipeds in any form.
What I can live with is a limited fligh capability for Dryads. They too have wings, so in simple deduction it wouldn't feel wrong for them to be able to fly in some form of burstmode. Leaving the unlimited flight to dragons. And dragons only.
And if that "lore" is taken away from dragons, I want some form of compensation for the fact that dragons cannot multiclass, and for me a nice way (I'm not asking here, this is only and IF - THEN situation) of compensation is granting dragons the ability to learn most of the spells bipeds have access too, except those which are stated by lore (blight, ...) are a human derivate and would never be practised by a dragon, this only seems fair to me.

Like I said, I like the capabilities of a dragon as they are now, somewhat lacking in the primal department. But this is more unfinished content than needing new (BIPED capable) stuff. Yes, a decent Gold Surge (on the list too) would be a nice addition. Completing the ability quests, a hoard chamber, ... All nice, but I can wait for that.
Bipeds need some love too, lets get confectioners done for instance.
Just don't go rushing out to change game mechanics which are fundamental choices for some people like dragonflight.

Salis

[Hoberton]

I am sick of all this Dragon vs. Bi-Ped arguments (mainly started by Dragons).

Follow almost all threads and you will find that what I say is mostly true. Please stick to the main reason this post was started. Or end this thread completely.

[Seranthor]

When Dragons can successfully fight 40 levels above their level they are most definately FAR above any single classed biped, and on par with peds in that are moderately multiclassed (ie. the L100 dragon can do things that the rating 140-160 bipeds can do) without ANY rating penalty, let me say that again, WITHOUT ANY RATING PENALTY. Anyone that feels that their dragon is underpowered, maligned or just inferior is most assuradly missing the boat on what their dragon is capable of.

Again let me state my current opposition to giving flight in any shape to any race that isn't dragon and I can find no current reason to introduce swimming at this time.

[Vasden]

When Dragons can successfully fight 40 levels above their level they are most definately FAR above any single classed biped, and on par with peds in that are moderately multiclassed (ie. the L100 dragon can do things that the rating 140-160 bipeds can do) without ANY rating penalty, let me say that again, WITHOUT ANY RATING PENALTY. Anyone that feels that their dragon is underpowered, maligned or just inferior is most assuradly missing the boat on what their dragon is capable of.

Again let me state my current opposition to giving flight in any shape to any race that isn't dragon and I can find no current reason to introduce swimming at this time.

Sounds like somone needs a hug....

- Vasdenjas -

[Seranthor]

*Snicker*

[Oakleif]

The only class I could see giving limited flight to, perhaps in place of an extra sprint like Saris get, would be dryads. However, dryads already have two racial abilities (increased evade and magic evade, and increased power) and dragons have two racial abilities (breath of fire and armored scales) so the dryad flight would have to be a quested ability. I'd assume the quest would be similar in difficulty to the ROP that dragons need to get their flight, modified by the relative power of their flight.

I would not support flight for any other race, in any form.

I think swimming is only necessary when there is content that must be accessed via swimming. Right now the water serves as a nice way to have walls that don't look like walls, annoying as it may be to see where a bridge would take me but not being able to get there without building it first (hatchling still, no flight for Khaleph yet). Then again, I like world construction projects.

[Jayne]

There is so much to debate here and i think its been done. I personally don't think Bipeds should fly, other then Dyrads. Only other race I can even think of is if it were a fiend and they had an ability to levitate with there minds.

But I still don't agree that a dragon can sup res. I mean a res ok, but a sup res? That was exclusive to a healer, that is there main ability.

With that said then it would seem that any biped should be able to res in some form or fashion.