GN VS Tulga

[Uro]

Before this is buried, I very strongly suggest that you go read this thread first: http://forum.gnonline.net/showthread.php?t=65417

I'm not going to pick any sides, beacus mistakes have been made all round, and I have posted my share of complaints in the rants forum about GN, and the lack of service.

But lately everything but maintanance seems to have broken down, we have not gotten the last 3 patches on Unity, and now a GN rep starts being openmouthed in their forum, and between the lines trying to shift blame on Tulga.

Tulgas complete refusal to respond so far has only made the situation worse. To be honnest I find it bizare that a GN rep finnally comes out of the closet with remarks like:

"it's not a secret, it's just that we have to avoid getting to jail for murdering american developers (even if it can be worth the price, maybe)
we try everytime to be as correct as possible, but it seems the respect is not mutual"

or

"We're totally SURE that TG talks to you more than they do to us, considering that they don't even pretend to take into consideration that we exist - not to mention answering our emails, our requests, our questions and helping us solve the problems. That's what we meant when we talked about being correct mutually."

This was so far a unity issue I know that, but when Tulga is being accused by GN then I feel that it's not just longer only unity players that are affected.

Is this enough to get a responce for Tulga or should I just give up and cancel my acount?

[Oakleif]

From my understanding based on the posts on these boards and a bit of deductive reasoning, Tulga and GN have some sort of contract that gives GN total ownership of Unity and prevents Tulga from commenting about Unity at all while requiring them to provide updates to the game code. I get this from three observations:

1) Unity's lack of updates and poor customer service doesn't jive with Tulga's patching history or customer service record. Tulga is doing everything they can to make their baby survive and grow in a healthy manner, and the situation on Unity creates a bad image of their product in the eyes of the public. If Tulga had access to the assets in the EU, or were successful in negotiations to buy them back, then they would have done *something* to improve the situation on Unity so that the game would be more likely to grow. That's just basic business sense.

2) Tulga's developers and the contracted community support staff have been very vocal on these boards and several other boards, as well as chatting with folks in IRC. Yet they have not commented on Unity at all. If you get very vocal people that aren't talking about something for an extended period of time, even in the face of direct questions, it must be because of some legal contract preventing it.

3) Unity has been given the patch update code, but usually on a delay and done in lumps. That means that the code from Tulga has been sent, but Tulga is not in charge of when the patch gets applied. Again, supporting the idea that GN is in total charge of the servers, code, and databases in the EU and that Tulga has no control there what-so-ever.

I don't think the original contract with GN turns out to have been a good one from Tulga's perspective, but I don't think we can blame the developers or producers for that. It was likely the owner of Artifact Entertainment that set up the original contract with GN which Tulga inherrited.

Note that I don't work for either company, so while this is speculation, it fits the test of Occam's Razor.

[HAG]

Just to bring to you the latest news to this subject:

Luca Mazzasogni is back - or atleast his account was reactivated. And this is what named tutor of Unity wrote.

Anyhow, to put this to a rest... it looks like that the news about Horizons, Unity and the European Community that have been gone missing for months will arrive quite soon... if you have waited until now, I'm pretty sure that you could wait with us for a few more days.

If only i could believe these words and hope they mean something good for us!

[Joaqim]

Luca Mazzasogni is back - or atleast his account was reactivated.

can we have a reanimated Luca ingame then pls :b

[Antonath]

Anyhow, to put this to a rest... it looks like that the news about Horizons, Unity and the European Community that have been gone missing for months will arrive quite soon... if you have waited until now, I'm pretty sure that you could wait with us for a few more days.

Yes, we have waited until now. We're more than willing to wait a few more days, or weeks, for you to finally sort this out (and by "you" I mean both GN and TG). But if I hear the wrong thing "in a few days" (not holding my breath on that one), I will be gone. And I won't be the only one. Not just "off to the US shards", gone. If us europeans get screwed on our own shard, I see no reason to get slightly-less-screwed on another one with more lag and a level-zero character.

Don't get me wrong, I desperately want Horizons to continue. I want to see an expansion / re-release and meet lots of new friends. I want to finish building my lair. I want to see what's waiting for me past Ancient. I want to be the Dragon I bought this game to be. I really, really want for all that to happen.

But I can't see it. I haven't been able to see a "future" for quite a while. Not with the current Unity situation sitting over my head like some sword of Damocles.

I just can't help but think that the thread is about to break, and that sword's going to come crashing down.

Yes, we want to hear what's going to happen, but many of us are waiting for that one camel-breaking straw. The future of unity is a mighty big bale of hay to be waving around after weeks without patches, the previous "unable to create character" c**p, etc.

Send us to our doom, whether good or evil. But please, get it right first time.

Antonath

[Svayvti]

If us europeans get screwed on our own shard, I see no reason to get slightly-less-screwed on another one with more lag and a level-zero character.

Thing is, whichever party is guilty or innocent. The innocent really can't fix a co-operative shard on their own.

I'll admit it is easy for me to say since I don't play on Unity, but it only seems fair to give each the benefit of the doubt and a second chance without interference from the other to see where the fault really belongs.

I know its not what you want, and it probably isn't enough either. But I just don't see what one party can do in this case without the cooperation of the other no matter which one is innocent or at fault.

[Irih]

I'll admit it is easy for me to say since I don't play on Unity, but it only seems fair to give each the benefit of the doubt and a second chance without interference from the other to see where the fault really belongs.

I think everybody is allready doing that, otherwise there woiuld be nobody left at Unity or nobody would have moved to the NA servers. We players have been fair for a very long time.
We are at the fourth, fifth, sixth? (lost count) chance given so? fair? be fair and give us straight answers I would say to both TG and GN.

[Tzael]

I humbly request my fellow Unitarians to remain positive and enthusiastic about the future of our shard. I have not been with you all as much as I would like over the last 6 months however my interest in the affairs of our home is still keen. I keep my account active so that I can visit friends and in a vain hope that the money will be put to some good.

I foresee some possible outcomes...

1) GN and Tulga kiss and make up, Unity remains under GN's care, Unitarians get the support and service we are paying for. Everyone is happy.

2) GN drop Unity, but pass the database over to Tulga. Tulga set up a new shard for Unitarians. Unitarians receive the same level of support and service that Chaos and Order citizens are accustomed to. Everyone is happy.

3) GN drop Unity, but pass the database over to Tulga. Tulga merges the character data into the existing shards and reimburse players for the loss of plots and structures. Unitarians get exactly the same support that other Horizons players expect due to us being located on the existing Tulga shards. Most people are happy with the retention of character data, a few people leave due to the loss of their plots.

4) GN drop Unity, and sell the database to a third party who takes over the operation of Unity. Customer, host and Tulga satisfaction levels cannot be estimated in this case.

5) GN drop Unity, and refuse to sell the database for a reasonable price. Everyone unhappy, GN's reputation gets creamed moreso than it already has been damaged. Tulga gets an unfortunate publicity hit too. Disgruntled ex-customers aim their discontent at both GN and Tulga, potentially causing further damage to both companies' reputations.

There are other possible outcomes, the ones above are the most obvious. They demonstrate that most outcomes have potentially reasonable results and the only option with extremely negative results is in fact totally undesirable for both GN and Tulga.

I can't help but think that one of the pleasing options is more likely, would GN really risk damaging their reputation by pricing the Unity database so high that it is not feasible for Tulga or a third party to purchase it ?

[HAG]

I can't help but think that one of the pleasing options is more likely, would GN really risk damaging their reputation by pricing the Unity database so high that it is not feasible for Tulga or a third party to purchase it ?

I can do nothing but agree with Tzael.

And if some1 from TG reads this - i could really think about paying a bit just to keep my characters. Read: If you calculate and see it would be impossible to buy the database from GN, just ask Unity-Players how much they could afford to help you (TG) buying it.

[snickel]

Yes, we have waited until now. We're more than willing to wait a few more days, or weeks, for you to finally sort this out (and by "you" I mean both GN and TG). But if I hear the wrong thing "in a few days" (not holding my breath on that one), I will be gone. And I won't be the only one. Not just "off to the US shards", gone. If us europeans get screwed on our own shard, I see no reason to get slightly-less-screwed on another one with more lag and a level-zero character.
(...)

Antonath

Please don't leave Istaria. Antonath.

I left Unity to start to play on Order shard and so far everything is running nicely and smoothly here. Yes, its a big step to start a new character (and I was a multicrafter on Unity with all the builder classes in the 80s and just love to craft), but it is fun, really. You know where to find the resources, you make less mistakes and the community is very friendly. Don't let GN drive you away from Istaria, please.

[Guaran]

I can't help but think that one of the pleasing options is more likely, would GN really risk damaging their reputation by pricing the Unity database so high that it is not feasible for Tulga or a third party to purchase it ?

I didn't think GN had any reputation left.

[Deth]

Every time I see this thread I think of Celebrity Death match. So does this mean Luca and Ophelea are going to duke it out in the ring?

[snickel]

Every time I see this thread I think of Celebrity Death match. So does this mean Luca and Ophelea are gong to duke it out in the ring?

You mean they're puppets?

[Lycaunoss]

Every time I see this thread I think of Celebrity Death match. So does this mean Luca and Ophelea are going to duke it out in the ring?

My money would be on Ophelea...I think she might fight dirty and take him out quick like.

[LaughingOtter]

Yep. 5,000 quatloos on Ophelea!

[Ophelea]

Oh, my!

[Tzael]

Luca vs Ophelea ?

My money's on Luca, it's an easy contest right now. As soon as Tulga stop hiding behind the notion that their investors are stupid enough to prevent Tulga clearing its name of this debacle they might have a fighting chance of preventing this whole fiasco from becoming a serious injury.

Give it a go Tulga, speak up. You've got Game Network employees stating that Tulga staff deserve to be murdered and that the EU support has been so bad for the last year and a half because of Tulga's wrong-doings. That's libellous and warrants an official response.

Stop hiding behind fictitious red tape. If Tulga really cares about Horizons and wishes to divert a nasty blow, then Tulga would have the inclination to speak up on this matter. I'm not buying the reasons posted by Ophelea stating why Tulga won't speak, it's obvious when someone doesn't even believe what they're writing.

That's why right now my money is on Luca and GN winning, inevitably Tulga is going to get stung severely from this unless action is taken soon.

[Seranthor]

Luca vs Ophelea ?

My money's on Luca, it's an easy contest right now. As soon as Tulga stop hiding behind the notion that their investors are stupid enough to prevent Tulga clearing its name of this debacle they might have a fighting chance of preventing this whole fiasco from becoming a serious injury.

Give it a go Tulga, speak up. You've got Game Network employees stating that Tulga staff deserve to be murdered and that the EU support has been so bad for the last year and a half because of Tulga's wrong-doings. That's libellous and warrants an official response.

Stop hiding behind fictitious red tape. If Tulga really cares about Horizons and wishes to divert a nasty blow, then Tulga would have the inclination to speak up on this matter. I'm not buying the reasons posted by Ophelea stating why Tulga won't speak, it's obvious when someone doesn't even believe what they're writing.

That's why right now my money is on Luca and GN winning, inevitably Tulga is going to get stung severely from this unless action is taken soon.

Rather than casting dispersions Sir, lets see your evidence. Otherwise as they say down TX way its 'All Hat and no cattle'...

[Deth]

I just love how when the game first came out all these people were saying how bad GN was but now that GN has opened it's mouth and thrown the first stone they are the golden boys. Because we know it's TG fault the GN never answers any of it's service ticket, because TG is suppose to handle them also, and TG was not supplying a world master for that matter either solets throw that on them.

I am not saying that TG may not have caused some problems, but you need to look at the big picture. When some one that does not give good service oin one area starts throwing stones from another you just have to wonder.

[Firedragon]

Rather than casting dispersions Sir, lets see your evidence. Otherwise as they say down TX way its 'All Hat and no cattle'...

Is it really up to the player to present the evidence?
I don't care who's to blame, I'm not paying until I see some positive changes.

GN has, has far as I know, said more than TG, so it is up to TG to even the score in this game of "Bad Communication".
But that doesn't make GN any better or free them from their responsibilities and misstakes.