Specific Tech Application to Spell Bugs

[Svayvti]

Two bugs here.

First "Increase Heal" has no effect on HOT spells and it appliable to them. Either it should have an effect or it should not be applicable?

Increase range on a bolt spell breaks the repeat effect.

[tramsan]

The range effect is intentional. Added recycle is a tradeoff for longer range. (Tip: Use your next lower bolt range teched to pull. For instance, if you use improved lightning bolt 4, use lightning bolt 4 +range to pull.)

The reason why increases don't apply to HoTs is because they don't work like regular heals. They are more like a buff spell, where the effect just "happns to" heal. Which way to change it is a whole debate in itself, however.

[AmonGwareth]

The first is complicated. Many HoTs have both the "heal_over_time" and "heal" keyword. The technique system works off keywords. So if I remove the "heal" keyword from the HoTs, some techniques that should be able to be applied to these spells might no longer be able to. I'll see about getting some more information about this.

Bolts tech'd with a Range increase tech are no longer repeatable because range increase techs also slightly modify recycle. And any change to recycle makes spells non-repeatable.

[Eni]

Bolts tech'd with a Range increase tech are no longer repeatable because range increase techs also slightly modify recycle. And any change to recycle makes spells non-repeatable.

At least for palyers. mobs use ranged teched bolts as repeatable.

[Seranthor]

Ahyup, and mobs dont have to follow all the rules we are limited by.

[Svayvti]

It probably isn't a priority, but the current situation with these two techs is highly undesirable.

I would also suggest when doing your class review on the pony list that you look at some spell and tech combinations that are of little use. I've been advised not to tech certain classes of spells as "its a waste of comps and of little benefit".

[Seranthor]

Sir, thats part of learning the game... You do not need your hand held on everything, nor is that a desirable outcome of the game. IF we were told how to do everything and when to do everything then we'd never learn. Its time to learn.

[AA0]

Those techs are fine as is, do you suggest giving a mage more range and all that attack power compared to an archer? think about the big picture not just yourself.

[Svayvti]

No, I suggest giving a spellcrafter techs that work. Finding broken functionality and bugs is not "learning the game".

Thing about the game functionality and improvement not "just yourself" and the way you like it.

[Seranthor]

Pardon me sir, precisely what spellcrafter techs DO NOT work as you so artfully say it? Just because ALL techs dont work on ALL spells does not make them BROKEN Sir. Just because Heal Increase doesn't work on a Regen or a Breeze spell does not make that tech broken nor does it make the spell broken. Nor range to a bolt spell, doesn't mean the range tech is broken, nor does it make the bolt spell broken. TG has said in the past and yet again in this very thread, adding a ranged tech to a spell removes the repeating aspect, its not broken Sir, its as intended.

I await your response to what precisely IS broken with spell techs.

[AA0]

Because you do not understand how the game works, doesn't mean it is broken. Regrowth is a buff, a buff can't have a tech put on it to change that buff. That is how the game works, you can't just increase the amounts that regrowth heals for because it would be an entirely new buff needed in the database, you can't add cleanse to each tick because it would need a new buff again. Its not a bug, its not broken, its designed.

[Svayvti]

There was nothing in what AmonGwareth said that it was intentional, it was a byproduct of another design. So calling it intentional is short-sighted at best.

Spell + spell buffing tech = unbuffed spell

But I understand fanboi desire to defend ANYTHING in a game as I've seen it many times defending the most ridiculous of bugs and design. It simply isn't helpful to the game or the community however.

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Amon, on the repeater being broken. I would either point out specifically on the tech that this is designed to happen (but there is nothing that makes it apparent. If it isn't, then would an if/then situation where if the delay is less than certain amount then the delay isn't modified apply?

does the tech application support a double tag condition? If heal but not if heal_over_time?

[Seranthor]

Fanboi? me? you really and truly have no freakin clue who I am or how freaking harsh I have been for YEARS on these folks. I've been banned from the boards for longer than your pixels have been walking the game lands. Speak to that SIR!

For the record before you start accusing folks of being fanbois, please for the love of creation do your research, I am truly one of the last folks that TG would ever believe to be a fanboi. So Please, Please, Please, get your fact straight before you speak, remember Sir, its wiser to shut your mouth and do your research to prevent folks from thinking your foolish than to refuse to do it and remove all doubt.

[Svayvti]

Going to do what I should have done a long time ago and just add you to ignore Seranthor. Good riddance forever.

[Seranthor]

Uh Rah, and another one succumbs and gives me their power...
For those keeping score he never did bother to answer the question about what spell techs were bugged he launched into a diatribe accusing me of being a fanboi.

[Eni]

There are enough real "broken" spell techs. Or at least not working "right". At least if you look fron the conflict side. It is not a simpel tech problem but a major issue of the current conflict system, but it shows a lot on spell techs.

Spell techs overwrite value increase with their tier even as debuff "power" does not. Derange I and II (-15% power/focus. 30sec) gets overwriten by disconcert (-20%power/focus. +20% delay. 1minute). t3/4/5 of derange tech is still same (-15% power/focus. 30sec) but now it overwrites the much stronger ability). Same happens with a lot more abilitys vs spell tech.
There it would be a lot better no to split the derange effekt into tier. Just give all versions same effekt with same overwrite value.

Next point are resist lowering techs. They all have % normal resist. But what happens to mobs without any resist? (most just have armor). Or what hapens to a mob with a weakness? (negative resist) Current state this techs are sometimes good. Most time nothing and sometimes even they hurt yourself. Doesnt look like intended to me.

3rd i know is a real broken tech. Concentraded. It tell you to improve chance to hit with future energy spells. [incomming energy only spells only / +x% chance to hit] would do something like this. But what it does? [spells only / converts dmg to energy]

[Zachyattacky]

Go Seranthor! You tell em

[Jayne]

Yea he never did say. So there is an ignore feature in forums? ROFL. How do you have a discussion if you can't see what half the people are saying?? Obsurd

Jayne

[Droth]

first you can have a fine time of discussion on the forums with seranthor on ignore second as for the list of broken spells and techs here is just the start of a list for my lv 23 blood mage. now some things like both dot lifetaps not stacking when cast by the same player sure whatever i have an aoe lifetap so i dont really care either way but some of this stuff is just plain broken at random.

blight poison doesnt stack with malody or most other dots. clumsiness doesnt stack with malody. malody and weakness do stack i guess for the same reason clumsiness and malody dont...whatever that is. stinger doesnt stack with either of the other life dots the life dots however will stack with eachother unless you are the one casting them. none of the blight spells stack even if another person cast his seperate so you cant debuff the critter better if there are two people with blight spells. there may be a blight spell or two that is an exception but as malody and clumsiness wont even work together dont plan on casting many blight spells on the target. after testing most of them just dont bother teching blight spells because none of the affects are going to stack with the spell it's attached to and even if it does it wont stack with malody 90% of the time so dont bother.

just for a few of my favorite examples so far malody deosnt stack with clumsiness but it stacks with lessen strength? malody lowers str and dex to the same amount so i guess the game just doest like dex debuff spells? with none(or close to none) of the blight spells stacking even when cast by seprate players if you have more than one blight caster in the group it becomes a waste. and since most of the blight spells dont even stack with eachother there arent that many to cast in the first place.
another fine example. stinger and life leech spells. ok so the dot lifetaps will stack with eachother but not with the spirit dot spell?
i'm not very excited about most of the abilities i'll be getting from my class as i'm only lv 22 and i've found this many this many random conflicts. boil blood and, channel vitea ect i was very excited about but from the looks of it they are going to ramdomly get buggerd by any other dots i have and they have about a 50/50 chance of stacking with another player that uses them but it's all random so who knows.

Learning which spells tech and debuffs randomly dont work with one another for no reason IS NOT PART OF LEARNING THE GAME. it's part of learning the bugs and oddities that poor tulga still hasnt been able to fix after AE left things in such a mess.

flame on seranthor
:edit: they need to either make these things stack or not stack so you dont have to waste time, coin, and more than a few death points trying to figure out this tangled jungle. also they need to either make techs stack with spells or just get rid of the techs that serve no use.

also seranathor most people dont respond to your annoying nit picking questions because they realy dont feel like wasting thier time on you. now that i HAVE indeed posted details on just a small snippet out of god only knows how many of these, perhaps you will be apeased and enjoy your nice sftu pie? and you arent a fanboi there is another word that descibes you quite well but it wouldnt be proper for me to say in this company
and once again i ask of you if you wish to attack people do it in pms and stop cluttering up otherwise usefull post but if you must continue to do it in threads i've decided to devote a good bit of time serving up some of those nice pies

[Eni]

For blight spells forget most. Only use rust, dispell and witheren state. All 3 teched with bane.

All other are to weak or create too many conflicts. But thats not a real issue of techs itself. It is a issue of how conflict system works and of blight spell line.