Nadia and the Blight Update

[Aaelefein]

Okies...a lot of confusion here.

I see that due to "supply disruptions" on blight, we can expect soon on Order/Chaos to see Nadia's prices increase as well.

Why? It is so that those that can hunt with impunity and who already have several ways of making 100's of silver an hour can now charge even more silver for the comps they hunt for?

What does this do for the player that just got his/her/its first school in the range of wearing T5 armor/jewelry? Weeks of comp hunting and DP gathering (thank goodness the new Death Penalties aren't in-game yet )?

Other points:
- Sir Aidan is rarely stocked with high levels comps (or much of any level comp for that matter..not like I remember back in January when I was able to buy almost everything for my Mithril Armor/Jewelry) and even at 10s per T5 comp, it can still cost well over 1 or 2 gold piece for a set of armor or jewelry.

- Some comps can take days (not 2 or 3, but 5, 6, or even 10) to get enough for a set of armor or jewelry...and that's only 1 of many needed. (Veteran Ghost Vapors, Zombie Ogre Toes, Abomination Chest Skulls, Zombie Werewolf Skulls, and Vexator Fringes come to mind)

- What about crafters? This game draws many just for the crafting system and with PB's that no longer pay like they used to and so many high level crafters that make stuff for free (esp within their own guild) there is little money to be made for a primarily crafter player.

Lastly, as much as I hate to say it...this "change", "fix", or whatever you want to call it...smacks more and more of catering to those who 'have' theirs only so they can get more on the back of the little guys and new arrivals.

That should do...and I'm sure this will garner lots and lots of flames, rants, and even accolades. Not to mention probably making it impossible to buy comps from other players in the future.

[Seranthor]

On the surface thats how I read this as well, I most certainly hope this isn't intended to fleece the crafter-centric players, since my switch from crafting to hunting I can state for solid fact I've never had more money, and it comes from hunting.

[Justa Mirage]

I read that and I am with you 2

Now that Nadia charges more, those selling comps can "raise" their prices to still "cheaper than Nadia" and still say "you are getting a bargain"

[Henry Redacre]

So don't tech your equipment. If you want the benefit, you pay the cost, whether thats time or money.

The main problem I see with this though, is I can see people starting to stockpile now. Buy as many as they can afford from Nadia while prices are "low", and then turn around and jack up their selling price to other players after the increase.


Who knows, maybe this will make the Blighted Equipment look somewhat more attractive as well, since you wind up getting the techs, but without the comps. To me, this gives the impression of moving in the direction of making techniqued equipment the exception, rather than the rule,as things currently are.

[Kulamata]

Will this change make Horizons more fun?

I think this needs to be looked at in context. There has been a tendency for a long, long time to make the game slower; "adjustments" to mithril ore, pawnbroker pricing, field machines and WA strength, to pick some of the fairly recent examples.

Dragon buffs ran counter to that trend, and I am convinced to my core that that had a positive effect on the Hz's business outlook. (And to be fair, a very successful overhaul of the new players' experience, new content, and turtles.)

When released, grind in Hz was more the result of inability to have all the content in the game at release, especially above level 40 or so; but the design of the game eliminated an awful lot of miserable little MMO time sinks; no compass training, or corpse runs, or camping, or food requirements, or long rest periods, or fierce death penalties. It was a great breath of fresh air. An air of Elizabethan generosity flourished; as an armorer, I did a a lot more business when armor was easy to make and tech. Why is Puritanism prevailing now? If MMO customers on average remain for a period of, say seven months, I would guess that if they accomplish more in those seven months, they will be more likely to return someday. If their memories are of grind and frustration? Maybe less likely. Sneering at the most popular Western MMO for it's fast leveling and fatter looting as it's developers laugh all the way to the bank may not be the optimal strategy. Horizons is still unique and unequalled in many respects; let go the leash, and let 'er rip!

So, as should be clear by now , I think it would be nice if this change never made it to live from Blight.
And any future change should be evaluated for how much fun it adds; other criteria need not apply.

[Rhyssa]

- Some comps can take days (not 2 or 3, but 5, 6, or even 10) to get enough for a set of armor or jewelry...and that's only 1 of many needed. (Veteran Ghost Vapors, Zombie Ogre Toes, Abomination Chest Skulls, Zombie Werewolf Skulls, and Vexator Fringes come to mind)

What's wrong with needing days to get a set of comps rather than getting it all in a couple of hours? These are T5 comps, they shouldn't be so easy to get that every one can collect them all within an hour of hitting the level to need them. The comps found on the satyr islands are the hardest to collect, but some are quite easy to collect (dire wolf fangs, peridot golem chips, giant ice beetle mandibles, icy dire wolf fangs). My partner and I hunt most of the satyr island comps for our guild, and it usually takes us around 4-7 days to collect all the comps someone needs for a set of armour (an average of 60-100 assorted comps per set). Add in the same amount of hunting time for the other comps needed and you have around 8-14 days to collect a full set of comps. Surely that's perfectly reasonable for the highest set of techs in the game?

Hunt with a friend or in a group, trade with others who are also collecting comps, take a dragon along and let him have all the hoard in exchange for you helping you get the comps - there are lots of ways to make it easier to hunt.

p.s. Those figures are based on about 3 hours of hunting each night.

p.p.s. I'm only replying to this one comment, not the whole economic issue.

[LaughingOtter]

Who knows, maybe this will make the Blighted Equipment look somewhat more attractive as well

I hope that's not the intent, but that's my first response as well.

That's fine, though. I'd rather be gimped than use blighted crap.

Whatever the reason, though, I agree with Kulamata. Unless comps can be obtained through a reasonable amount of hunting, this does nothing to improve fun for me.

[AA0]

In my first school I hunted all my comps (except the frost hellhound manes) for my armour, just because its not easy for all of them, doesn't mean it can't be done. People in hz have been spoon fed so long it gets sick really.

I'm not saying the comps are all droping fine, but the number of people that go out and just buy even the decent dropping ones is staggering. Hopefully this will bring some value and competition to the market again. It might bring more people out to hunt the WA as well, and yes the prices will go up because at the rate even the common comps drop in the deadlands you can't make much.

There are serious issues with zombie ogre toes, kwellen nodes, both vexator fringes, and abomination chest skulls. They just can't be hunted for any amount of supply to stock Aidan, and with this change they'll just be hoarded more not sold, they need to be fixed.. and no, not in 4 months when the loot revamp comes.

[Henry Redacre]

Will this change make Horizons more fun?

For the current playerbase? I'll say that for many of us, no, the change won't directly result in more fun for us, specifically. But Tulga still isn't raking in the money they'd prefer to be raking in based on the current playerbase, so something has to change somewhere.

This change right here may not directly raise the degree of fun in and of itself, but what this change can do is possibly spur more player-to-player interaction. If every player can just belly up to the Nadia-dispenser, rather than hire adventurers to collect the comps, or group up to go out and hunt and gather the comps themselves, then there is less likelihood of any players actually getting the comps themselves. By making Nadia an even less attractive alternative, players may find themselves working together more to collect these comps. Of course, thats just speculation, but I personally think the impetus is there. In the end, more players working together and perhaps stimulating more of a player-to-player economy is good for the health of the game in the long run.

So, is it directly fun for those of us that are currently here right now, and are aware of "the way things were" prior to this change? No, not necessarily. Is it possible that new players joining the community now, and in the future may find the results more fun? Yes, in my personal opinion, I think that will end up being the case.

But we all need to keep this in mind - both players and Devs. Is this the only change needed in order to properly stimulate and encourage the type of player-to-player economy and interaction I described? No, not by any means, but this is a step towards that goal. This step has been preceeded by others (PB changes, etc), and will hopefully be followed by more.

[Varraven]

So, as should be clear by now , I think it would be nice if this change never made it to live from Blight.
And any future change should be evaluated for how much fun it adds; other criteria need not apply.

I agree here. I'd also have to say that the prices Nadia charges now are high enough, high yet not completely totally unbearable. It already takes enough time to do anything in this game (client performance doesn't help I might add). I've been playing since release (skipping a bit here and there) and I'm nowhere near complete with what I plan on doing, but dragging things out in every which way will only help things lose their appeal more easily.

[Rhyssa]

Will this change make Horizons more fun?

I guess it depends on your definition of fun. If you include satisfaction and sense of accomplishment in fun, then yes it will.

Back when Hzs started, and there was no Nadia and T3 was the highest Tier everyone didn't automatically assume that teched gear was their right as soon as they were high enough to wear it. You started off with an unteched set of everything, and you worked your little butt off to collect all your comps and get a teched set of gear made - and you got a real sense of accomplishment when you finally had it. It was something to tell your friends and they'd be really pleased for you. These days even a set of teched T5 gear isn't a cause for celebration - it's just taken for granted.

To me, that's an aspect of fun that newer players are deprived of.

[Seranthor]

Ya see, thats the problem, IF folks could reasonably hunt some of those items, (VACS, Blue Fringes, etc) Most WOULD. But to jack up Nadia's prices WITHOUT correcting WHY folks go to her first is doing things A**backwards, at least in my opinion.

[Tantalyr]

Ok, I'll say it--methinks the devs have lost all sense of "FUN" in this game.

First it was the fun of crafting. We worked and worked and worked our arses off to finally get up to maxing our crafting classes at level 100. And despite our pleas to let us work even harder and longer for Tier VI resources, the devs decided to make Tier VI resources "incompatible" with all other tiers. Witness the intentional blighting of the thornwood field, the scarcity of radiant wisps, and Amon's stated intent to screw up the travertine as well.

And apparently that's not enough. Now Nadia will screw adventurers even harder for the coin that has become so desperately hard to come by these days for components. Now she'll demand even more outrageous prices for the comps adventurers need.

I have to say to you, all you devs--WHAT GOT INTO YOU??? Did you collectively forget the "Fun Factor?" You've made it work now. HORRENDOUS work.

I've enough work in RL. I don't need to come home from the office after a loooong day of work, log into a freakin' GAME to relax, and just find MORE freakin' WORK to do . . .

[Seranthor]

PS. IF we had wanted to turn our gaming time into a JOB we'd join one of those guilds in WoW, COH, EQ that raid every freaking night....

[Varraven]

As I've said before: Teched gear is MAGIC. You take basic armour and make it MAGIC. It is something extra you give to your character. It is completely possible to play the game normally without magic gear and weapons and spells (unless, like tramsan, you choose to play the most broken class in the game (that will hopefully be fixed eventually)).

I just don't think that every single player should have (or needs to have) magic gear.

Ok, we don't have to have teched armor/gear. But what is the alternative really? Other games (most other games) do have an alternative of some sort. Dropped gear might be an alternative, and sometimes a good one, but not really in this case. Blighted isn't exactly an alternative since most of it has negativity to it. Players want crafted because that's the way to avoid negative. At least provide more actual/decent alternatives to crafted if going ahead with this change.

[tramsan]

You fail to factor in one vital aspect of the human psyche, gopher -the "because it's there" factor.

T6 is there. A lot of people will want to do it. Many will want to do it themselves, like they have for many other things throughout their game. Seeing this fat, big, ripe and juicy prize sitting off in the distance creates motivation. Not being able to feasibly attain said goal, well, pretty much ever, will create despair. Saying "but it's *supposed* to be hard!" doesn't do diddly squat. Despair is a large contributing factor to people leaving games.

[IvyMindFlayer]

Nadia's poor family must be struggling because she had to raise prices around 3 times as much!! I wish her and her vielo children the best. I keep hoping they will buy Dalimond one day... oh well a gnome can dream can't she.

[Vengeance]

If the Devs want me to support anything to do with the Velio, I say put in a world event that allows us to kill them all. Nadia can take her comps to the grave. Killing her a half dozen times would bring a large dragonish smile to my face.

However, my opinion is the T5 comp drop rate isn't very even across the board. Hiking Nadia's prices will not fix anything.

[Fluuoro]

Well , i don't think these changes will do someting to crafters...i mean there are no more pure crafter to be screwed, all got killed by the infamous merge patch and the survivors were taken by the Vielo and the pawn broker nerf. So i think this patch to crafter can be considered at most a dead-horse discussion. For high level andventure i don't think this will change a bit, well probably will be a kick in the balls for low level adventurers but multi-100-adventurers will just farm a bit more tier 5-6 mobs for easy coin. It will be like the *FUN* old days of granite golem frags going for 50-100 silvers each.

[Helcat]

hm... not sure which server you played on, but on Expanse, those rare granite frags always sold for 15sp on the Aug consigner. And at the time, I recall personally selling bucketloads of them for 5sp each. It's not as bad as some would like to make it to be. As far as the comment about coin being "desperately hard to come by" I really have to disagree. I've recently started playing a bit after having been tied up with other projects for a while, and have made 4 gold in the past 2 weeks alone, just casually adventuring, collecting coin drops, pawning items, and selling tech comps on Aidan. Anyway... I think we'll survive. This is more likely than not a first step in getting rid of Nadia entirely anyway.