Dragon Forms/Biped Forms

[Rhyssa]

Total cost of forms needed to make a flying cargo disk: 375 silver
Purchaseable from : The dragon tinker trainer.

Total cost of forms needed to make a biped tarbash cargo disk: 3gold, 150 silver
Purchaseable from: 2 different vielo

Total cost of construction forms necessary to build a dragon lair: Free, as a reward for doing quests (If you don't want to do the quests then they'll cost you a total of 83 silver, 750 cp)
*I believe one of these forms is drop only
Purchaseable from: the lairshaping trainer

Total cost of forms necessary to build a biped plot: 10gold, 125 silver.
Purchaseable from: the vielo of course


Am I the only one who sees anything at all wrong with those numbers? Or am I missing something?

p.s. those prices are obviously for expert level forms

[HAG]

Am I the only one who sees anything at all wrong with those numbers? ...

No, you're not. But a) we all know that Dragons have the strongest lobby in this game and b) it's not "allowed" to post such thoughts as it's like you're calling for a "nerf".

So we both better hide our thoughts from now on.

[Seranthor]

Total cost of forms needed to make a flying cargo disk: 375 silver
Purchaseable from : The dragon tinker trainer.

Total cost of forms needed to make a biped tarbash cargo disk: 3gold, 150 silver
Purchaseable from: 2 different vielo

Total cost of construction forms necessary to build a dragon lair: Free, as a reward for doing quests (If you don't want to do the quests then they'll cost you a total of 83 silver, 750 cp)
*I believe one of these forms is drop only
Purchaseable from: the lairshaping trainer

Total cost of forms necessary to build a biped plot: 10gold, 125 silver.
Purchaseable from: the vielo of course


Am I the only one who sees anything at all wrong with those numbers? Or am I missing something?

p.s. those prices are obviously for expert level forms

Ma'am,

It's all part of the Dragon Affirmitive Action program that's been secretly slipped in under the radar lest we notice and call foul.

[Nayuaka]

Having to buy forms from the Vielo is just stupid. I honestly think the best thing would be for them to mimic the dragon way of doing it for the bipeds. Add quests where you will get the forms for finishing them. It makes sense. Since the biped part of the empire likes lore tokens make the techs available on biped trainers for lore tokens ( a decent amount of them obviously). I still think just doing the quests for the forms is the best way...

As a high level dragon who has it easy I say give the biped players some love.

[Vlisson]

which biped buys his disc forms from the vielo?

which dragon buys his disc forms from the vielo?

does the forms drop per loot?

edit: the same goes for the plots, i never bought any form from the vielo, only when they were released vielo only and to get the new gust spell

only a pure crafter would have to buy this forms from the vielo and only if he dont want to interact with any other player

[Velea]

This is just my opinion as a player. One who plays both biped and dragon characters of various levels.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Dragons are dragons and bipeds are bipeds. You could get someone in here who is a die-hard player of dragon characters who reminds you of all the "negatives" to being a dragon, such as you don't have to purchase hoard, until these discs went in bipeds could make things dragons needed, but there was nothing that only a dragon could craft that bipeds needed, lairshaping requires way more resources to make a lairchamber (and thus anywhere from 5 to 10 times the number of hours spent crafting than a biped requires), the list could go on and on. And, of course, a die hard player of bipeds could come back and list all the reasons a dragon has it easier in game.

But the bottom line is this... Bipeds are bipeds and dragons are dragons. They aren't going to have the same game experience as one another. If you look at the other side and see the grass as being greener, then go to that side of the fence and sample the grass for a while. But stop comparing apples to oranges because they are two different fruits.

[Aamer Khan]

Good lady, you are seeing clearly.

There are a number of inconsistencies between dragons and bipeds that appear to be intentional. It's true bipeds and dragons are more like apples to oranges, but cost of forms or method of getting forms should be the same for all characters. ( at least, that what everyone I talk to says )

Take for example, the level of money that they can amass at the dragon only adventure areas. Or how about the totally unguarded, big shining wisp spawn on "their" island? Even the fact that dragons have quests for everything and bipeds basically limited ones that run out after lvl 20 or so ( depending on class ) should tell you that what you are seeing is deferential treatment towards dragons.

Perhaps TG feels that dragons are the biggest draw. Perhaps they wish to make it easier for dragons, so that more will play them. Perhaps they want the number of dragons to be far greater than bipeds. Perhaps they want to give a few perks to dragons because they are still outnumbered? I really can't figure it out.

But to balance the picture a bit, I do realize that there has been much more content put in for bipeds than for dragons. There are 7 biped racial towns and 2 dragon towns. Almost ALL guild communities are biped in nature, and only recently were lairs added to them. And, there are still more bipeds being played than dragons.

I am not suggesting that dragons get any nerfs or the shaft. I would suggest that bipeds and dragons be on equal footing as to potential.

[Vlisson]

lol Aamer

why to turn it in a dragon vs biped discussion?

the issue here (the topic) is a another problem than this other fight ^^

answer my questions before and tell me who buys the very expensive forms from the vielo?

because the tinker stuff is ingame for a long time its easy to buy them on consigerns or from other players

dragon discs are new, so only new killed mobs can drop this rare and needed forms. (is it already added to the loot table?)

So some dragons might be frustrated and buy this stuff from the vielo (better than to wait some month to buy it for a fair price from other players)

for the other "biped/dragon" stuff please open a new discussion ^^

[Aamer Khan]

Vlisson, you may have missed that Rhyssa is compairing dragons to bipeds as to cost of forms and methods of getting forms, and that dragons have it easier.

The thread IS about dragons vs. bipeds.

[Vlisson]

in the time you make as a dragon all the lairshaping quest to get the needed forms you can hunt as biped and earn your forms or money to buy it too.

and which forms are longer ingame? so the forms got common?

[Varangaard]

Even the fact that dragons have quests for everything and bipeds basically limited ones that run out after lvl 20 or so ( depending on class ) should tell you that what you are seeing is deferential treatment towards dragons.

You call them quests, I call them kill tasks. This can be rectified however.

If there is substantial demand, I promise that once the quest editor goes live, I'll submit for approval kill tasks for a bunch of class abilities like Crit Strikes, CoTs and Cleaves, where you may need to kill mobs rated 5-10 levels above the level on which you can first quest for the ability. Then bipeds, too, can have the exciting time of killing 20x[something] to acquire an ability instead of getting them with levels. Perhaps I will even entertain people with a kill 100 purple vexators task, or some other equally abundantly spawning mob.

[Rhyssa]

which biped buys his disc forms from the vielo?

Any biped who can't get them when he needs them from another player - because the vielo are his only choice.

which dragon buys his disc forms from the vielo?

None - the vielo don't sell them, the trainer does.

does the forms drop per loot?

I'm assuming so, since all other forms do.

edit: the same goes for the plots, i never bought any form from the vielo, only when they were released vielo only and to get the new gust spell

That's great if you were able to get them all from looting. The point is if bipeds can't get them from loot then they have to pay more than 100 times the price that dragons do. That isn't an exageration, it's a fact. 83 silver for all the dragon construction forms times 100 would make them 8g 300 silver - still almost 2 gold cheaper than all the biped construction forms.

only a pure crafter would have to buy this forms from the vielo and only if he dont want to interact with any other player

That applies to both dragons and bipeds and doesn't change the price disparity, in fact it only makes it more obvious. Buying those forms for dragons is a practicable option - it isn't for bipeds.

dragon discs are new, so only new killed mobs can drop this rare and needed forms.

a) rare? no-one knows yet how rare or common a drop they'll be.
b) needed? highly debatable
c) no other forms were cheap when they first came out, so their newness has nothing to do with it.

Btw, I have both a dragon and a biped so yes, I can see both sides of the fence - and what I see is a huge gap in equality between the two.

[Aamer Khan]

Awesome sarcasm there Varangaard!

As was said, dragons are oranges and bipeds are apples. No argument there. What does seem odd is that dragons have to work much harder to craft lairs, and bipeds can't get all crafting forms from their trainers.

There is disparity in a few places, and that's what is being discussed. Yeah, dragons have ability tasks that are very hard. But then again, they only have 2 classes to bring up as crafters. Bipeds have 19 to be equal to dragons. Perhaps the ability quests should be hard, so that dragons roughly level at the same pace a biped can. We sure don't need ability quests, since we get them as we level like you said. But we also don't have the richness or sense of accomplishment that dragons can have. For us, it's kill another 5k of lvl 100 mobs to get just druid up to 100. How many mobs total does it take to get a dragon to 100 adv?

[Vlisson]

every form which is put in to the new loot-table is rare, the drop chance is the same like for every other form but nobody needs for example "root spell" anymore, it got too common the last month/years

think about when the lairshaper or crystalshaper tech got added ^^

then you only compare t5 plot/lair stuff

the lower stuff a biped can buy easy too

i never saw a problem for others to get their needed plot forms, maybe i missed the discussions in the chat when someone looked for it?

[Deth]

I am thinking the forms do not drop as I have not seen or heard of anyone getting any of the Laircrafter forms from a drop. As they are brand new forms that were just developed how or why would a mob have them, yes I know why would a mob have one any way? I assume it ate someone that had the form from ages past. or a golem was created from the grave of someone that knew how to make them or some such.

[Robins]

in the time you make as a dragon all the lairshaping quest to get the needed forms you can hunt as biped and earn your forms or money to buy it too.

and which forms are longer ingame? so the forms got common?

How much hunting does a Dragon do for its Lairshaping forms including master? NONE. It requires no Adventure levels at all.

Bipeds only can get Master Construction forms from killing massive amounts ofT6 mobs for Tokens from the Old Oaks new event tent. They dont even drop anymore. So again Bipeds need not only the 5 construction classes and the bases craft classes to get them but now they must be multiple level 100's to build.

Heres a nice quote from Dravatar in this thread http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...t=14276&page=7

It is NOT in any games best interest to cater to a specific group of players as doing so only alienates other groups.

[Deth]

How much hunting does a Dragon do for its Lairshaping forms including master? NONE. It requires no Adventure levels at all.

Bipeds only can get Master Construction forms from killing massive amounts ofT6 mobs for Tokens from the Old Oaks new event tent. They dont even drop anymore. So again Bipeds need not only the 5 construction classes and the bases craft classes to get them but now they must be multiple level 100's to build.

Drawing on the economy talks from other threads. Would it not be better for a crafter to pay an adventure or trade crafted items or plot work with a Player rather then just go out and pay a NPC?

As said above diffrence are good. Why play one class or race over another when all that is diffrent is the look.

But yes I will give you it is harder to gain your master formulas then a dragon but then there are are more total formulas but less formulas are needed per class.

[Aamer Khan]

Disparity in procurement is the issue.

Make it equally easy or hard to get needed forms and this discussion is moot.

[Goriax]

I've got a bunch of biped cargo disk related forms that have been collecting dust in my vault for months. I'd have been happy to GIVE them away but no biped wanted them.

If you insist on doing things the expensive way, don't be surprsied if it gets . . . expensive.

If dragon forms ever start dropping perhaps they should increase their cost too.

I agree that biped forms which DON'T drop shouldn't be very expensive. But those which do, should.

[Vlisson]

hmm why do you all talk about t5 or now even about t6 forms?

lets talk about t1-4 and look if there is a problem too? ^^