Throw this ole hermit a bone

[Deth]

I'm sorry but i disagree, i think dev did the right thing and i thank you for pointing out two very bugged areas: slate field in mahagara and mithril anvil. As pointed out in many post (also by you) crafting shouldn't be easy, every piece of teched armor should be paid with blood and months of work, not just go to nadia and buy reagents then gate to last stand and collect mithril..THAT IS BAD!!1!!1one!

He is. and poking at the componet cost increase and rareness of componet threads.

[Fluuoro]

When you post asking for more nerfs & grind and people actually belive you are serius and not sarcastic..well probably what you wrote was not so distant from reality ;-)

[HratLi]

Hehe... Fluuoro, that is sad and true. The only reason I could tell you were joking is because you intentionally put in that !!!111one!11! It was a little too close to home.

I think a lot of us feel threatened and frustrated by the turn that T6 has taken. One or two random nodes is not worth it at all, I'd rather transmute, at least I will have steady progress that way instead of waiting in line for a wisp or two to regenerate, or hunt around for the few popping thorns.

I don't mind changes, but hidden or unannounced changes are pretty annoying. I don't know any more if they are unannounced because they are unintentional, or because they didn't want to 'tip their hand' on what will be changing the world we live and work in. For some reason I suspect that the crafting changes will just suddenly 'be in' unannounced, and likely without the xp adjustment, at least initially.

And Seranthor, I'll take you up on that Mhedon challenge, though historically it's 2:1 in Mhedon's favour so far. Umyarr, I'm still 0:2.

-HratLi

[Jael]

This is a sad day indeed if you have finally managed to drive off even the old Hermit. It was Arch's projects and faith in you that kept me paying 5 months after I had decided horrid design decisions were ruining the game. No matter how badly things appeared to me Arch always had faith that things would be made right if we only endured long enough. He planned grand projects that would take years to complete, and I remember us talking for hours on end about all the steps needed to complete them. He always believed enough in you to just turn the other cheek to every slap in the face that was given to crafters. This is a sad day indeed if you have finally driven off even your most dedicated master builder.

[Tantalyr]

Once again, please allow me to plea for proactive communication. This thread amply illustrates the terribly unfortunate results of changing direction (and game mechanics) in an MMO with little to no advance warning, and no input at all from the player base.

Archebold has been one of Horizons' greatest supporters since launch, and an in-game mentor to many a player who has wandered Istaria. Losing him would deal a great blow to Order and frankly to you, the developers.

Of late, communications here from the developers, and indeed its new-found PR director, have mostly been short and almost downright rude. A suggestion that you all engage in proactive communication was met with "Ignorance is bliss." Our mystification over the rarity of radiant wisps was met with a response that essentially just said "That's the way it's going to be so deal with it."

So now we are at a point where due to terse (and darned near rude) communication from the developers and PR director, we players--your clientele--are left wondering where the heck this game is going and why. Your recent decisions to (a) strip out not only Tier VI resources, but at least some Tier V resources and mobs, and (b) completely eliminate Nadia as a source for comps, lead many of us to the ineluctable conclusion that you all have decided that we players are just too "fast" for you to keep up with, and that these changes were made just to slow us down, if not completely stop us from crafting and adventuring. And that indeed is a very unhappy conclusion.

If we're wrong in that conclusion, tell us! Ignorance is not bliss! In these circumstances, player ignorance equals player cancellations.

[Foxfire]

Hmm...somebody is moving our T5 and especially T6 Cheese.

Wait, they're not moving it, there's not enough cheese to go around anymore!

So the rats don't change their tactics and plans... they die.

*also upset at new brusqueness and rudeness of devs - wonders if devs are being told to do things they don't (completely) agree with, and the rudeness comes from the squeeze...*

[Holth]

This is the first time I have ever posted in these forums, 1, because I would rather play and 2, because I did not feel that voicing my opinion and causing rants and flames is productive to this gaming world.

That said, yesterday with the announcement by Archebold that he was retiring from Istaria, it is time for me to speak my piece.

What first attracted me to this game was the catch phrase "this is a thinking man's game". I was looking for entertainment, excitement and brain stimulation. When I first started in Istaria I got all of those and more. I loved this game and played every day. I went from a being a hatchling to Adult to Ancient over the past two years; from being a new player to MMPORGs, to a guild leader of one of the largest guilds on the Order shard. I have 4 current subscriptions, own 3 plots and a lair and also have a biped toon with multiple 100 crafting and adventure classes.

Through all of that time I have called Archebold friend, advisor and the one most likely to catch me off guard and make me laugh. He earned my deep respect and admiration early on and that has only grown over the last 2 years as I have watched him become the Master Builder of the Shard. He has headed up world projects and organized building with ease and confidence. He has also weathered all the changes with an optomistic outlook that I have not seen from any other player.

Tulga, when you push a player like Archebold out of the game, something is terribly wrong. I have watched the changes being made over the last few months with great apprehension. As a business owner I understand bottom line income vs. outgoing expenses. I also understand projected growth yadda, yadda, yadda. No business can stay afloat on dreams and promises. A customer base is key. New subscriptions are the only thing that will keep Horizons up and running.

HOWEVER, current customer satisfaction and word of mouth are your GREATEST ASSETS. This is a game that should be keeping players over the long run, strong dedicated supporters that attract, and in turn, keep new players coming in and staying as well. I have watched so many players leave over the last 6 months, including many of my guild members. We have gone from over 160 to 49 on our roster. We are all old players that have been in the game for 2 years or more. So over 2/3 of my guild members have left. Most have left because they are dissatisfied with the enjoyment factor and the client/bug issues that are never fixed. I would guess that other guilds would post the same numbers. If I owned this game I would find this totally unacceptable.

Horizons has the best crafting system I have ever seen and by far the best community of player of ANY MMPORG on the market today. It is a "thinking mans game", but it is no longer entertaining or exciting.

This leaves me with several logical conclusions for the reason behind these changes being made by Tulga and neither one is good.
1. Tulga is content to let the older player base go and make up for it with a few new subs a week trickling in. New players will stay for a few months and move on only to be replaced by newer players. Rinse, repeat. This will result in a constant but not increasing sub base and no real growth will be possible. (From a business standpoint this is probably not Tulga's intent.)
2. Tulga is wanting a piece of the WoW/EQII pie and is phasing out the crafting part and "thinking man's" part of the game so they can attract the 13-21 year old players that make up the largest part of the so-called "successful" games in the industry. There is no expansion pak being worked on, Horizons will end and Tulga will try to move the current sub base to the new pvp DarkWorld to compete with WoW/EQII.

Tulga please prove me wrong. As a "thinking man" (woman) I need communication from Tulga that makes sense to me and gives me a reason to stay with this game. If there is a larger picture we are not seeing please tell us what that is and give us the light at the end of this dreary tunnel you have shoved the older players into. Don't push us out. Because I will not play DarkWorld.

I am very saddened by the exit of Archebold, Order's Master Builder. Archie, may your path always have a road bonus, your endeavors maximum xp and your days filled with continued hope that Istaria will soon become the "thinking man's game" once again.

Farewell for now my friend.

[Peaches]

and hoping............and hoping...........

That my mentor won't leave.

[LaughingOtter]

Travertine is still there, ironsilk is still available, radiant wisps have been spotted in the swamp, on Trandalar, and (of course) outside Feledan. Adamantite and T6 gems are still popping up as bonuses.

Thornwood is problematic, yes, but I don't think it's reasonable or logical to assume the current situation is permanent. There's nothing wrong with expressing displeasure if you think these resources are too rare; if it is too rare, make your case and advocate for an adjustment. You just might get one.

This is the time when T6 crafters SHOULD be active. Make your case, discuss the issues, advocate for your position, and do your best to shape the evolution of T6 crafting.

Yes, quitting is one way to make your point. I just don't think it's the most effective way to do so.

Addendum: I do agree with the sentiment that drastic changes in the world should be accompanied by at least a brief, informative statement that gives us, the players, a context for said changes. "The thornwood forest has been lost to the WA, and will remain so until the Gifted rally and push back this assault." There, that tells us that this is an event-related change and that we will eventually be able to have a hand in liberating the area. Comments like that would go a long way towards reassuring the more concerned members of the community.

[Tantalyr]

This is the time when T6 crafters SHOULD be active. Make your case, discuss the issues, advocate for your position, and do your best to shape the evolution of T6 crafting.

Yes, quitting is one way to make your point. I just don't think it's the most effective way to do so.

Addendum: I do agree with the sentiment that drastic changes in the world should be accompanied by at least a brief, informative statement that gives us, the players, a context for said changes. "The thornwood forest has been lost to the WA, and will remain so until the Gifted rally and push back this assault." There, that tells us that this is an event-related change and that we will eventually be able to have a hand in liberating the area. Comments like that would go a long way towards reassuring the more concerned members of the community.

LO, we veteran players did just that when we found out--to our great and unpleasant surprise--that there were only a couple of radiant wisps in all of Istaria. We discussed and pleaded with the developers no end in two different threads. And do you remember how Amon responded to that reasoned discussion, those requests for explanation and perhaps change? Here, let me quote it for you:

I would like to add one final thing... When it comes to Tier6 resources, throw your expectations out of the window as they do not apply. Tier6 resources will not work like other resources. They might be rare, they might be blighted, heavily guarded, etc. But they will not be common or easy like the other Tiers.

Radiant is working exactly as designed. Thornwood is now working exactly as designed. Travertine will soon be working as designed. Others may appear in the future, and they too will not meet expectations of Tiers 1 to 5.

Though obviously terse, this little response speaks volumes--"Tier VI resources are going to be well nigh impossible to get, so shut up and deal with it."

To say that rationale pleas to the developers have fallen on deaf ears of late would be putting it rather charitably.

[AA0]

I'm not so much concerned with tier 6 as much as the rest of the world. In the last two patches we have seen drastic changes to spawn patterns, the fields that were once dangerous and exciting are now barren and leave boredom to single players, not to mention groups.

I do feel t6 should be hard as well, and its gone overboard. This isn't a single player game, its an MMO and one person shouldn't be able to hog the entire spawn, ever.

[Theolaerynn]

You heard 'em, subscriptions are 'increasing'. The TRS-80 they are running the game on can't handle more than 6 players at a time, gotta thin the herd.

Sad thing is, while their thought process may not exactly match that the effect is essentially the same. Only folks that either enjoy bashing their heads against a wall or are too stubborn to stop now are paying, or new folks that just don't know better yet. But have no fear, sooner or later AE will discourage most of them too.

[Ophelea]

LO, we veteran players did just that when we found out--to our great and unpleasant surprise--that there were only a couple of radiant wisps in all of Istaria. We discussed and pleaded with the developers no end in two different threads. And do you remember how Amon responded to that reasoned discussion, those requests for explanation and perhaps change? Here, let me quote it for you:


Though obviously terse, this little response speaks volumes--"Tier VI resources are going to be well nigh impossible to get, so shut up and deal with it."

To say that rationale pleas to the developers have fallen on deaf ears of late would be putting it rather charitably.

Tantalyr,

Having spoken to Amon on this subject in great length so that *I* have a better understanding on it, I feel he said exactly what he meant.

That you felt it was terse, I am sorry for - it certainly wasn't "shut up and deal with it".

It didn't fall on deaf ears - I heard, I asked.

But, Tier 6 anything is not meant to be like Tiers 1-5. Tier 6 is meant to difficult, require cooperation, take time and result in something truly special. Tiers 1-5 have the ability to be completed on their own. Tier 6 should not. If they can be, they are broken.

They have listened. What you are hearing is only a disagreement between what you feel the design should be and what they intend it to be.

It is unfortunate that Tier 6 can't be looked at as "epic" and "special" and an amazing accomplishment between peoples.

It is unfortunate that the feelings at this time it is viewed as a grind.


However, I can tell you with assurance that the developers are working hard this month to leave Lesser Aradoth and move on to the rest of Istaria and perhaps, in the future, they will strike a balance that makes both your wants and their design come together in a symbiosis that most can agree upon.

Until then...

[Dhalin]

Instead of "nerfing" the ability to gain Tier6, why didn't you add, say, a Tier 6.5?

The old vets are disgruntled with the current handling of Tier6, because its been widely nerfed. Before it wasn't anywhere near as hard to get as it is now. They are saying "Why did you do this all the sudden!? There are people walking around with Tier6 equipment/buildings/etc that they gained much easier than the new players will bea ble to now, and that's unfair!"

And you know what? I agree with them. I'm only a Tier III player. When I get to Tier6, I'm probably going to feel like I'm being punished for not getting to Tier6 pre-nerfs. Is it right, that everything is made much harder for me when I reach Tier6, just becuase I didn't get there soon enough? I don't think its right.

If you wanted something to be EPIC, something that players got worshipped for having, you should have added a Tier6.5 or something. Make items that are ONLY able to be gained through SPECIAL means, and you will have that "Special" thing. Take, for instance, the Reklar items I keep hearing about. However, I saw the stats on a few of them and I sat there, thinking "Eh, that doesn't look very remarkable.. I betcha a fully teched T6 crafted item is better than this."

What you need to do, IMHO, is to add a Tier 6.5 (or call it Tier7 if you want) line of equipment. Make it so that you have to do quests to gain such gear. Make the items dropped from super-bosses that require 30 people to kill. Make the items equippable only by Lv100s in that particular school. Make the items better than Fully-Teched T6 items. THEN you will have your "EPIC" and "SPECIAL" things that everyone wants, but is not able to get.

For Buildings, a Tier 7 could be made of normal Tier 6 materials, except 1-2 key units that can only be made with items dropped from high level monsters. That way, when someone says "I just finished a T7 Guild Hall!" people will ooo and aahhh over it and the player will feel like he achieved something truly great.

Adding NEW content is ALWAYS better than nerfing existing content. You want Epic stuff? Stop nerfing T6 and add T7 that is a mixture of T6+Quests/Boss Mob Drops and Lv100+ only. Then you will have your Epics/Special/Uber stuff that people worship and that is so hard to get.

That's how every other MMORPG does it, and it must work, because all of THOSE MMORPGs are quite successful and the playerbase is happy. When the Playerbase outgrows the current stuff in the game, they add more. When WoW players outgrew their Molten Core/Battlegrounds gear, they added Ahn'Qiraj. When FFXI outgrew the Sky God drops, they added Sea and Aht Urhgan.

Nerfing T6 is not the answer in my eyes. It only irritates everyone who has been working T6 and irritates those who are almost to T6.

--Dhalin

[Doombreak]

Tho crafting T6 on your own is fairly easy even with poor spanw on the fields. Boards, orbs , bricks, bars can be transmutated tho a hard process to do but still possible the only players that would find the T6 nodes more useful would be dragons for thier lairshaping, i.e uncut T6 gems, raw radiant and travertine slabs

If T6 structures etc should be something to be proud of then maybe after all this slimming down of T6 is in cut the amount of T6 units required in T6 lairs, T6 biped structure and event structures. T6 work is rewarding but theres a line between rewarding and annoying.

In my dragons lair there is only a T6 library to be done and im gatheirng enough travertine and stuff slowly..lucky on unity we have yet to recicve the past few patchs so we can get tons of T6 work done b4 the changes i guess hehe :P

Cutting back on golem/treant spawns too will cut back on hunting opportunities for players sorta double edge sword effect both adv and crafters but cuting back on T6

[Seranthor]

I think a lot of us feel threatened and frustrated by the turn that T6 has
And Seranthor, I'll take you up on that Mhedon challenge, though historically it's 2:1 in Mhedon's favour so far. Umyarr, I'm still 0:2.

-HratLi

Pfft, I know YOU can beat him in your jammies HratLi, but your the exception, not the rule.

[Rocinante]

It is unfortunate that Tier 6 can't be looked at as "epic" and "special" and an amazing accomplishment between peoples.

Yes its "epic" to have to camp mobs and nodes in order to get the resources you need. Yes its "special" to have to run all over istaria looking for a wisp you may never find. Even working in teams there is still going to be competition for these epic specials and those who arent able to gather them are going to be left frustrated and angry. This may even bleed over to player vs player conflict due to the shortage. This results in a less than fun time playing Horzions. A lack of player fun will lead to a revenue loss.

At the same time there continues to be a lack of information/communication about why these changes have been made. What is this grand vision and why don't we know about it? Why are we never informed? David?

The most puzzling part of all of this a company should be giving its market what it desires and to build upon its successes. This recent implementation is akin to "New Coke".

I'd seriously consider closing my account too and joining Arch on the ex-player list, but silly me signed up for a year.

Rociante

[Helcat]

There are people walking around with Tier6 equipment/buildings/etc

T6 equipment?

[Seranthor]

Yes, quitting is one way to make your point. I just don't think it's the most effective way to do so.

Actually LO, quitting IS the most effective way of dealing with the rage and disgust. However, its not the most conducive to HZ survival. TG has thusfar failed to find a way to maintain their subscriber base of veterans AND bring in new to create a substantial growth. It goes back to their feast or famine mindset, it appears that TG's intent is to sacrifice vet subscriptions in favor of the prospect of gaining new.

[Seranthor]

Instead of "nerfing" the ability to gain Tier6, why didn't you add, say, a Tier 6.5?

The old vets are disgruntled with the current handling of Tier6, because its been widely nerfed. Before it wasn't anywhere near as hard to get as it is now. They are saying "Why did you do this all the sudden!? There are people walking around with Tier6 equipment/buildings/etc that they gained much easier than the new players will bea ble to now, and that's unfair!"

And you know what? I agree with them. I'm only a Tier III player. When I get to Tier6, I'm probably going to feel like I'm being punished for not getting to Tier6 pre-nerfs. Is it right, that everything is made much harder for me when I reach Tier6, just becuase I didn't get there soon enough? I don't think its right.

If you wanted something to be EPIC, something that players got worshipped for having, you should have added a Tier6.5 or something. Make items that are ONLY able to be gained through SPECIAL means, and you will have that "Special" thing. Take, for instance, the Reklar items I keep hearing about. However, I saw the stats on a few of them and I sat there, thinking "Eh, that doesn't look very remarkable.. I betcha a fully teched T6 crafted item is better than this."

What you need to do, IMHO, is to add a Tier 6.5 (or call it Tier7 if you want) line of equipment. Make it so that you have to do quests to gain such gear. Make the items dropped from super-bosses that require 30 people to kill. Make the items equippable only by Lv100s in that particular school. Make the items better than Fully-Teched T6 items. THEN you will have your "EPIC" and "SPECIAL" things that everyone wants, but is not able to get.

For Buildings, a Tier 7 could be made of normal Tier 6 materials, except 1-2 key units that can only be made with items dropped from high level monsters. That way, when someone says "I just finished a T7 Guild Hall!" people will ooo and aahhh over it and the player will feel like he achieved something truly great.

Adding NEW content is ALWAYS better than nerfing existing content. You want Epic stuff? Stop nerfing T6 and add T7 that is a mixture of T6+Quests/Boss Mob Drops and Lv100+ only. Then you will have your Epics/Special/Uber stuff that people worship and that is so hard to get.

That's how every other MMORPG does it, and it must work, because all of THOSE MMORPGs are quite successful and the playerbase is happy. When the Playerbase outgrows the current stuff in the game, they add more. When WoW players outgrew their Molten Core/Battlegrounds gear, they added Ahn'Qiraj. When FFXI outgrew the Sky God drops, they added Sea and Aht Urhgan.

Nerfing T6 is not the answer in my eyes. It only irritates everyone who has been working T6 and irritates those who are almost to T6.

--Dhalin

Dhalin with all due respect, what game are you playing? Because if you have forms for T6 gear I sure as hell want to see them. I dont want to appear rude or mean here, but do you even know what your talking about or read what you write.