Enough. Is. ENOUGH!!!

[snickel]

Ok, two questions from me:

1. Who developes the patches?

2. Where is the proof that GN recieves the patches?

There is no proof in your questions that GN is responsible that unity got no patches. (If you would have read my post.... but you didn't so, why do I say that every time? yes.. PLEASE READ MY POSTS... ******** it.)

And there is no proof that it is TULGAs fault that GN did not receive the patches. Wait a minute: There is not even proof that GN did not receive any patches.

I'll state it again in the hope that logic may finally prevail in this discussion:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Applied to this discussion:
No proof for patch transmission does not equal proof of no patch transmission.

Lets try to handle this like scientists, shall we?

Your first question was who developes the patches. It is my understanding so far that they are developed by the developers and that these are under contract to TULGA.

Now before we jump to your second question, we find that there are some questions that have to be asked before:
Does the patching involve work on the side of GN that doesn't have to be done by Tulga, namely making the patches fit Unity in some special way? Maybe GN does not wish to spend the manpower to do so... In this case the patches would have been sent and TULGA would not be at fault.

Does TULGA have to supply the patches no matter what or is GN required to do something in return as well, for example pay for them? If that should be the case, then either of both sides could be at fault here. Maybe GN stopped paying, how about that? You wouldn't expect TULGA to work for free in that case? In this case the patches would not have been sent -- but we still wouldn't know if TULGA is at fault.


So TULGA is either not at fault or we don't know for sure. There is no way the sent-patch-question can prove TULGA is at fault.

q.e.d.

[Garfonso]

And herein exists your flawed logic Sir. Your clear unwillingness to answer the question shows you know are you are on the wrong side of the fence.

Ok, here is your answers:
GN applys the patches. And the last time we got one was in mid june, I think.

So, now, this answers are quite obvious (maybe not for a constrained mind as yours), but where are your answers? Hm?

Is your logic now flawed, too?

Where do the patches come from? Hm?

Where is your evidence that TG just doesn't send them? (for whatever reason)

Couldn't it be that just the contract between GN and TG is over (for whatever reason?). I think that is quite likly, cause I heard rumors of renegotioations in may.

And if that contract did end, that means some negotiations were unsuccsessful, I blame BOTH TG AND GN for not being albe to find a contract that allows unity to be patched.

That's all I say, said and will say.

[Garfonso]

How often do I have to agree that TG may be at fault here? I excoriate TG for all that I find wrong, when I have clear evidence of their guilt. That said, I still have yet to see any of your evidence of TG's guilt in this situation when your still buried in GN's guilt. You sir are clearly logically challenged and blinded by the GN BS. There is clearly no reason for me to continue discussing this with you in your clearly diminished mental capacity. I have nothing further to say to you until you pull your head out, wipe your eyes clean and see the facts of the matter.

Yeah... you need proof that TG is guilty, but you like to assume without ANY proof that ALL of the guilt if on GN's side.

And I am proud of you that you refused to understand what I was saying and further more refused to learn anything... Very brave

[Garfonso]

And there is no proof that it is TULGAs fault that GN did not receive the patches. Wait a minute: There is not even proof that GN did not receive any patches.

Never questioned that.

I'll state it again in the hope that logic may finally prevail in this discussion:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Applied to this discussion:
No proof for patch transmission does not equal proof of no patch transmission.

Never questioned that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted to see a proof that no patches on Unity is all GN's fault, just like Serenathor states again and again.

Just show me that ******** proof and I will be quite... but just show it. I can't see it.

[snickel]

Never questioned that.


Never questioned that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted to see a proof that no patches on Unity is all GN's fault, just like Serenathor states again and again.

Just show me that ******** proof and I will be quite... but just show it. I can't see it.

Maybe this is just a misunderstadning, then: For the way I understand Seranthor, he just wants it established that there is no proof of TULGAs guilt -- he does not know if they're at fault or not.

He just rages against people who claim that TULGA is guilty without any proof. That does not equal a conviction that they are innocent.

[Seranthor]

Maybe this is just a misunderstadning, then: For the way I understand Seranthor, he just wants it established that there is no proof of TULGAs guilt -- he does not know if they're at fault or not.

He just rages against people who claim that TULGA is guilty without any proof. That does not equal a conviction that they are innocent.

Snickel,

And you have exactly understood my point. I have no illusion that TG may have some culpability in this situation. I just see no evidence of that culpability. As I see it TG could be guilty in addition to the clear convincing evidend of GN's guilty.

[Garfonso]

Maybe this is just a misunderstadning, then: For the way I understand Seranthor, he just wants it established that there is no proof of TULGAs guilt -- he does not know if they're at fault or not.

He just rages against people who claim that TULGA is guilty without any proof. That does not equal a conviction that they are innocent.

Yeah. He rages against them, with no reason, no information, no better "theory".
All he says is that GN is guilty for all and everything. I wanted to see him proof that. So I acted exactly like he was.

The funny thing is that he couldn't cope with that...

Sorry, that I fell at his level of argumentation, but it was just too much...

[Caelin]

Maybe this is just a misunderstadning, then: For the way I understand Seranthor, he just wants it established that there is no proof of TULGAs guilt -- he does not know if they're at fault or not.

He just rages against people who claim that TULGA is guilty without any proof. That does not equal a conviction that they are innocent.

Then he is doing a really poor job at it. I was certain that his aim was to ridicule anyone who dared to think that perhaps both part were to blame for the current situation.

I have clearly stated that GN is to blame for the sad state that Unity is in. But I pointed out that we have no idea why it is so. GN needs some cooperation from TG to keep the server in good shape. Perhaps they did not recieve that help?

The fact that TG so easily ignore all the european customers that play their game,, with an arrogant shrug of their shoulders and a "We can't say anything", is no proof of them doing anything wrong. But it is enough for me to blame both them and GN for not solving this.
And it is the reason for me stating that I will not play any TG game until they have proven that they can make sure that all their customers fairly. For even though I do play in a GN server, I am still playing TG's game and so I feel like one of their customers.

[AA0]

This thread makes my head hurt.

[Seranthor]

Then he is doing a really poor job at it. I was certain that his aim was to ridicule anyone who dared to think that perhaps both part were to blame for the current situation.

I have clearly stated that GN is to blame for the sad state that Unity is in. But I pointed out that we have no idea why it is so. GN needs some cooperation from TG to keep the server in good shape. Perhaps they did not recieve that help?

The fact that TG so easily ignore all the european customers that play their game,, with an arrogant shrug of their shoulders and a "We can't say anything", is no proof of them doing anything wrong. But it is enough for me to blame both them and GN for not solving this.
And it is the reason for me stating that I will not play any TG game until they have proven that they can make sure that all their customers fairly. For even though I do play in a GN server, I am still playing TG's game and so I feel like one of their customers.

I'm sure if you want ridicule I can arrange it... Snickel has picked up on exactly what I'm saying, and lo and behold, she's a Unity player that found the courage to stop paying GN to abuse her. She's packed up and moved to Order.

Blame TG all you want, GN wants you to do that. They love to take your euros and then turn around so they can stab you in the back while you do their dirty work for them and cast aspersions at TG.

[Caelin]

I'm sure if you want ridicule I can arrange it... Snickel has picked up on exactly what I'm saying, and lo and behold, she's a Unity player that found the courage to stop paying GN to abuse her. She's packed up and moved to Order.

Blame TG all you want, GN wants you to do that. They love to take your euros and then turn around so they can stab you in the back while you do their dirty work for them and cast aspersions at TG.

I do not doubt for one second that you can arrange that. You have a sharp tongue..(pen?).
It's just that you are so busy using it, that you do not read what other people write. Or at least do not show that you have read it. You just state your own opinion over and over again with conviction instead of trying to rebuke some of ours.
You are arguing with the "I am right, and you are stupid" kind of attitude that in my opinion never leads to a good discussion. If what Snickel writes is truly what you're saying, then me and a whole lot of other people missed that. Probably because we were blinded by the rude atttitude of your postings, at least I know that's why I missed it.

To end this, I think I will conclude that we are somewhat agreeing.
You claim that we unity-people should stop bending over and take some responsibility to solve this. I can agree with that. I stopped bending over when I cancelled my subscription and showed GN that they are not getting any more of my money.
Where we abviously do not agree is that I am not going to bend over and turn my back to the person standing on the side, cheering on while GN was busy. That person being TG in this case.

[Ashania]

Two points this discussion is completly missing til now:

In the buisnessworld, if a contract is negotiated or renegotiated, both sides of the table wont make statements about the matter, because it can have influences on the outcomings of the negotiations. Thats common buisnessbehavior.

The EU competion right is maybe one of the strictest around. Tulga cant be blamed for giving EU players the chance to play on NA servers. But if the would do anything else, like: Come over and we give you 100 levels free. im sure there will be a legal cause soon. And Tulga cant afford that. So everything they can do, is to shut up about the situation. Any compensation they would try to give unity players to cause them to come to NA, will go this way.

That are some thoughts i had the last week and im sure im not completly wrong with one or the other.

And on another point: I dont think that Tulga really is dependent on the remaining 200 - 300 left over players on unity. So where would be the reason, to try to *steal * some of them?

Yours

Ash

[Vlisson]

@Seranthor why do you add more and more questions nobody can/will answer?

and why dont you answer to other questions?

do you think to have more questions unanswered makes your questions a fact?

if BOTH sides dont tell anything then not only 1 side is guilty

You want a proof? nobody can give you one, and you cant give an anti-proof ^^

Ophelea stated the same things again we already have known. only 1 new info.

GN = AE Europe

so it seems they bought this name and all rights to host HZ in europe?

@trial: where can you download the trial? google it and you wont find the european trial. So why had TG took the step to offense GN now? an eMail and a barred way to access the EU login page from their webpage?

i know where to problem is.

If GN wont wake up unity is gone, but TG dont make the situation better with all their little steps toward an unknown goal!

[snickel]

(...) Snickel has picked up on exactly what I'm saying, and lo and behold, she's a Unity player that found the courage to stop paying GN to abuse her. She's packed up and moved to Order.(...)

Just for the record -- I do not think it was a matter of courage. In fact, it took almost all of my courage and capacity for hope to stay with Unity as long as I did. I moved because I finally was fed up completely with GN. So it was an act of defiance, maybe, but courage is something else. And the Unity players who stay certainly are not lacking in courage.

[Seranthor]

@Seranthor why do you add more and more questions nobody can/will answer?

and why dont you answer to other questions?

do you think to have more questions unanswered makes your questions a fact?

if BOTH sides dont tell anything then not only 1 side is guilty

You want a proof? nobody can give you one, and you cant give an anti-proof ^^

Ophelea stated the same things again we already have known. only 1 new info.

GN = AE Europe

so it seems they bought this name and all rights to host HZ in europe?

@trial: where can you download the trial? google it and you wont find the european trial. So why had TG took the step to offense GN now? an eMail and a barred way to access the EU login page from their webpage?

i know where to problem is.

If GN wont wake up unity is gone, but TG dont make the situation better with all their little steps toward an unknown goal!

I ask the questions I know YOU wont answer because deep down in your heart you know your on a sinking ship and rather than accept the reality of it and accept the help that is offered you'd rather bite the hand that is offering the assistance and in some warped, arrogant, self-loathing manner your hell bent on staying on that sinking ship. That is fine if you want to do that, I really dont care any longer. I'm about helping those that are willing to help themselves, YOU and those like you are NOT willing to help yourself.

Clearly you are logically deficient if you believe for one second that absence of evidence is evidence of guilt. You dont NEED me to prove to you that GN is the one to blame, you already know it in your heart, You are hoping against hope that someone, anyone will come along and rescue you despite the fact at least in this particular forum your doing absolutely nothing to aid your situation.

Yes Virginia, GN owns HZ's rights in Europe and thusly there is no way that TG can help you until GN allows it. TG isn't responsible for hosting the EU trial files, GN is. Blaming TG further shows your inability to grasp logical situations.
Why you ask that TG is attempting to annoy GN. Perhaps its because GN is offering up slander and disinformation which YOU and those like you suck down like a crack fiend looking for their next fix. As I've said before, why should TG have a link on their page to GN, it only encourages GN's misconduct toward you, I mean if you want GN to keep abusing you perhaps you should annouce that desire and then cease this charade of yours about 'TG is abusing us, boohoo'.

Now, finally, you've said something that makes sense... if GN doesn't wake up then Unity is screwed. Ding ding ding. However, this 'but TG dont make the situation better with all their little steps toward an unknown goal!'. My response is simple... Dee dee dee. What if that goal is to encourage GN to sell the Unity DB to TG? are you opposed to that? Just because YOU dont know what the end goal doesn't make it wrong, it means you dont know what exactly is going on.

Now, I really DO feel sorry for the remaining Unity players that ARE trying to do something to improve their situation, Those of your kindred that are screaming and hollering that TG is abusing you, I laugh at because collectively you need to be given the Dee dee dee award.

Have a wonderful day on Unity good sir.

[Greenclaw1]

I really wanted to come back to Horizons but, my first month back on Unity was enough for me. It’s hard to want to invest time in to the game when you experience first hand how poorly Unity is run and maintained! On top of the uncertainty of its future!

I have a years play on my Dragon! There’s no way I’ll want to start all again on USA shard! The only other option was to not bother investing any time in to Horizons as that’s the only other option I had left. It’s a real pity Unity come to this and TG can’t do a ******** thing about it! This latest info for me reinforces the suspensions going around that Unity’s days as numbered!

[LOVWYRM]

I want to thank you all for your useful contributions.
Each post was important to me.
NA-mates: Thx for sharing your thouhgts, your dedication and sympathy!
Unity friends: I´m proud to be part of this Community!

I learned alot-reading that thread, not only about the facts.

Who else did?
So, to whom it might concern:
Let sense of reponsibility, moral committment and fairness
not be a foreign word to you (while negotiating?)
(yes, Seranthor, call me simple-hearted, I don`t care. Why don`t we dare to demand it, when it comes to business dispute?)

Unity still is in dire need of help- SO HELP US

[Vlisson]

@Lov i sent you a pm, im curious what you have learned ^^

@Ser i dont understand your discussion and i see we two cant get to 1 conclusion ^^ I dont know who is right, it changes no facts who is right

Unity is dying
TG will host Unity all over the world soon ^^ with 2 NA Servers :P

[Seranthor]

I want to thank you all for your useful contributions.
Each post was important to me.
NA-mates: Thx for sharing your thouhgts, your dedication and sympathy!
Unity friends: I´m proud to be part of this Community!

I learned alot-reading that thread, not only about the facts.

Who else did?
So, to whom it might concern:
Let sense of reponsibility, moral committment and fairness
not be a foreign word to you (while negotiating?)
(yes, Seranthor, call me simple-hearted, I don`t care. Why don`t we dare to demand it, when it comes to business dispute?)

Unity still is in dire need of help- SO HELP US

Lass, who are you asking for, and how would you propose that you recieve the help you so passionately plea for?

[Seranthor]

@Lov i sent you a pm, im curious what you have learned ^^

@Ser i dont understand your discussion and i see we two cant get to 1 conclusion ^^ I dont know who is right, it changes no facts who is right

Unity is dying
TG will host Unity all over the world soon ^^ with 2 NA Servers :P

Clearly you dont understand what I'm trying to say. Because you dont want to understand.

You want the masses to accept that TG is at fault also in the TG-GN situation without evidence of the fact. I refuse to accept that as fact without the evidence. I do however, accept the possibility that they have some fault, but at this time its only a possibility and thereby are legally innocent at this time.

Yes, Unity is dying, through the actions and inactions of GN. Clearly you agree with the fact Unity is at fault, but, you incorrectly want to cast the blame on TG also, without any facts to back your assertion.

It does sadden me greatly that YOU and the remaining Unity players that want to blame TG for your situation or think that TG is trying to 'let you die' are dead wrong. The only people that can kill Unity are GN, and from where I sit they are doing a helluva job.