To the New Owners re: IRC and the boards

[BKBanzai]

Dear Sirs,

There was some mention in irc, a suggestion that it be eliminated. There are a number of players in this game that sit in IRC extensively. These players were akin to thugs in that since they were the majority and long established in IRC, they would verbally abuse, harass, hound and belittle players that would come in to channel to
(1) oppose their game suggestions
(2) complain about in game issues, such as performance, bugs while instead focusing on the interests and changes driven by their core fan-base (in irc).

These players are also now going to bring extreme negativism (behind your backs).

Here's a quote after you left IRC:

<Hal`cyon> The number of spelling and grammatical errors in this makes me want to cry: http://community.istaria.com/news/?id=180

<Hal`cyon> This, my people, is our new owner.
<Warsong> I liked him spelled as bad as I did
<Kala> um, how long was he working on that?
<Hal`cyon> True, he may become an ally of all the less-than-perfect spellers out there.
<Hal`cyon> All day I think. At least for some time.
...
<Hal`cyon> Nothing against EI, but little things like that can give you an idea of their level of business sense and professionalism.

IRC also only represents a minority of the playerbase. I urge you to find other ways of getting wider ranging input back from the player base.

Thank you.

[Tantalyr]

Keep in mind what personal agendas that Hal`cyon and perhaps other out of work Tulga free interns might have in saying petty crap like this . . . .

[Khosadan]

And this was posted publically instead of PMed... why? To start a fight or something? >.>

[Spartikus]

Yeah tempers are still pretty frayed atm. Doesnt excuse such classless behaviour but well.. I've been on the recieving end of that behaviour since I tried to join this community almost 3 years ago =)

Lot of cliquie elitists .. Im just going to resub and enjoy the game.

[Landowyn]

They had the devs ears. They don't any more. They're pissed about it. Simple as that.

[Vlisson]

everytime something changes someone get unsatisfied

thats life

but to start a revolt or backstab the good intent of the new owner is only dumb

[Machivelli]

<Hal`cyon> Nothing against EI, but little things like that can give you an idea of their level of business sense and professionalism.

Oh Hal ... that's rich!! LMAO!!

[Tantalyr]

They had the devs ears. They don't any more. They're pissed about it. Simple as that.

Good point, Landowyn. Very good indeed. *ponders*

[LexDivinia]

Dear Sirs,
*snip
Here's a quote after you left IRC:
*snip

What was this supposed to accomplish?
Tattle-taling on each other, are we?


I understand the concern for not wanting all input to come from irc. But many of us go to irc for more than the devs. It is an extended part of the HZ Community. One that extends to all shards in real time, unlike posting in the forums.

EI made it clear to me they intend to be ingame often to get player feedback. I hope they are able to make it to the other shards as they have with Chaos.

Lex

[Spartikus]

I think it's more of a wake up call to the persons who think they are somehow helping Horizons by stabbing EI behind their backs.

Right now a lot of feeling are hurt and egos are bruised... Fact is though Lex that players were FORCED to go to IRC by Tulga because it was the only way to find anything out about the game..

As a game developer myself I can tell you flat out that IRC basically duplicates a good ingame PR system. As a dev I'm a much bigger fan of being more available in one place than pretending (especially with a small staff) that I can effectively be in 2 places at once and give the same great level of service.

[Xarog]

TG had many ways of reaching and listening to the players. IRC was one of them. These boards were another.

Killing the IRC server would accomplish exactly NOTHING, as there's already a backup channel being hosted on another server, which is also totally out of the control of TG, EI, GN, or anyone else in any way connected to the development of the game. (This independent alternative, though not neccessary yet, can be found at #horizons on the server irc.netstable.net:6667 )

I'm of the opinion that IRC and the forums are far too hostile in general, but EI would only be shooting themselves in the foot if they did not treat the forum and the IRC server with respect.

[Theros Ironfeld]

As of yet they have not visited Blight , and we have no idea who ' they ' are.

Today we bid farewell to our friend and W.M Aru/Illyist in a shard gathering at Bristugo , a pic of which has been posted on the Blight section of this forum and an End of an Era posting in general.

[BKBanzai]

What was this supposed to accomplish?
Tattle-taling on each other, are we?


I understand the concern for not wanting all input to come from irc. But many of us go to irc for more than the devs. It is an extended part of the HZ Community. One that extends to all shards in real time, unlike posting in the forums.
Lex

Actually, there have been reams and reams of posts complaining that the only people in the "know" are those that frequent IRC, and most do not. There have been a lot of posts that the development team not use IRC as a sounding board or as a means of imparting game information.

Players that have been in IRC forming "personal" and "close" relationships with the dev team have gotten special favors done, and have in return, bad-mouthed, insulted, and driven new people that feel other than the "IRC" crew out of IRC.

I know a good many people that won't go into IRC because of how elitist and cliquish it is in there, and how the regulars band together against anyone that criticizes, opposes, or disagrees with the opinions of the IRC majority.

I know I went in there once before, to ask about when the invisible mob situation was going to be looked at and fixed (after over 3 months of help tickets on the subject matter). I got called a troll repeatedly, got harrassed, ignored, talked over...in fact, if it were not for PJ and Fredlich, who actually expressed an interest in the situation, I think no one would have done anything but continue to harass me as I tried to bring the situation some developer attention.

David Bowman even made some comment about how he was an English major and that he enjoyed the opportunity to argue with someone in a logical and sound manner.

Anyway, I would by far prefer an in-game polling system, even an in game mail system to pass information to the team and vice versa.

That way everyone that logs into the game gets a voice, a say, an awareness of upcoming changes.

Moreover, if it serves as another "community" for Horizons, then let whatever players keep it alive, but leave the developers and the owners out of there. Otherwise, it's just going to be the same thing all over again, with the IRC crew speaking as though they represent the entire subscription base.

Thank you.

[Amadan]

Players that have been in IRC forming "personal" and "close" relationships with the dev team have gotten special favors done, and have in return, bad-mouthed, insulted, and driven new people that feel other than the "IRC" crew out of IRC.

Special favors? That's quite an accusation to make... I do not remember doing any special favors for anyone while I was working on Horizons


Anyway, I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion on the matter.. Why? oh, because they are paying customers. Time will tell a lot about what will happen, and people should be allowed to think anyway they please. If Hal, or anyone else wants to give their opinion, they should be able to. Was it behind EI's backs? I do not believe so, it was said in IRC for all to hear.

I personally hope Horizons keeps going the way it has, every day was a better day for the game I believe... and I hope it continues to go that way. I think everyone in the Horizons community is pretty awesome in their own way....


Amadan
Aka Jim

[Kulamata]

An incestuous relationship had developed. Players who agreed with the general directions of the devs were listened to perhaps a bit more carefully. The result was that the devs talked to people who already thought as they did, and those people echoed back what the devs already "knew". The IRC scene was a symptom of that, and why I did not participate since long ago.

Both groups believed strongly in "challenge" and interpreted that in fairly narrow ways; more repetitions for the crafters, greater AoE killspells, money harder to earn. The widespread outburst after the last "adjustments" provided a much better look at the community's reaction than the echoes of the true believers.

As they made a positive feedback loop, they were slowly strangling Horizons. Breaking that loop would not be all bad, not at all.

[Spartikus]

quote for truth ^^ I truely didnt know the community as a whole recognized that was happening. I thought most of the community was on board with the IRC stuff. (which I used to actually listen in on for the longest time untill I couldnt stand it anymore.)

[LexDivinia]

I know I went in there once before, to ask about when the invisible mob situation was going to be looked at and fixed (after over 3 months of help tickets on the subject matter). I got called a troll repeatedly, got harrassed, ignored, talked over...in fact, if it were not for PJ and Fredlich, who actually expressed an interest in the situation, I think no one would have done anything but continue to harass me as I tried to bring the situation some developer attention.

A persons actions in the game are often the first thing people think of when they see that person whether in game or out. If there has been a falling out or bad blood betwixt the members, then it will make it hard for clear communication to be made. No matter how good the intentions may be. I do not condone the behavior, but it happens.

All too often the kettle calls the pot black.

Anyway, I would by far prefer an in-game polling system, even an in game mail system to pass information to the team and vice versa.

That way everyone that logs into the game gets a voice, a say, an awareness of upcoming changes.

Moreover, if it serves as another "community" for Horizons, then let whatever players keep it alive, but leave the developers and the owners out of there. Otherwise, it's just going to be the same thing all over again, with the IRC crew speaking as though they represent the entire subscription base.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I would like to see a development such as this to be a form of interaction with the devs. But I would not want to see irc go away because of it.

[Ankua Daru]

I lurk in irc at times and I see the people complaing actually are the most abusive posters in irc. Thats just my personal observation. I am sorry you felt like an outcast but please look how you behave while you were there. You attacked the people in irc in your post just as you do in irc and then complain when they differ with your opinion. Please look at what you say and ten to one you will see why you get the response you do. Irc is not perfect but it is a useful communication tool. Thats just my two cents sorry if I offended you.

[Seranthor]

I lurk in irc at times and I see the people complaing actually are the most abusive posters in irc. Thats just my personal observation. I am sorry you felt like an outcast but please look how you behave while you were there. You attacked the people in irc in your post just as you do in irc and then complain when they differ with your opinion. Please look at what you say and ten to one you will see why you get the response you do. Irc is not perfect but it is a useful communication tool. Thats just my two cents sorry if I offended you.

Huh? of what do you speak?

[LexDivinia]

This is not the Horizons Community I spent the last 3 months supporting.

This is not the Horizons Community I was proud of.

And I am ashamed.

Perhaps that's harsh. Perhaps I have no right to say it. Perhaps I'm being unprofesssional.

Perhaps none of the above is true and I do have the right, it isn't harsh and of all the people I am in a unique position to make this statement.

But read back and ignore the content of this thread and many others and pay attention to the tone and then ask yourself: Is this what Horizons is about?

I understand where you are coming from Ophelea... But think of a community that just had an unforeseen bomb blow up in the middle of their city.
First, speculation... where did this come from?
Second, fear... what is going to happen to us?
Third, recognition... okay, I see what has happened, do I move on or give up now?
Fourth... well that is where we are now... we wait to see if a beautiful garden sprouts up where the "bomb" landed... or not.

In the past 24 hours I have seen a lot of posts and conversations go from Doomsayers to more positive approaches of giving EI a chance.