Item Decay in Horizons?

[Tantalyr]

Given the lack of a very important option in the previous item decay poll, which I would add was made at a time when prior ownership had made fairly clear it was intent on implementing item decay in Horizons, I think it time to have a very simple poll, for the guidance of the new owners, asking whether players wish any form of item decay to be implemented in the game.

Your choices are limited to:

1) No item decay at all;

2) Some form of item decay, but not to the point where items will actually break. The Elder Game thread in Discussions contains myriad suggestions for such a system, and as I want to keep this poll simple, I have not included them here; and

3) Some form of item decay with items eventually breaking altogether. Again, the Elder Game thread also contains various suggestions on such a system, but they are not included in this poll.

[Deth]

So by Never break do you mean 0 useablity but repairable to be useable again? I assume so.

[Tantalyr]

So by Never break do you mean 0 useablity but repairable to be useable again? I assume so.

Yup, that's what I mean.

[Mearis]

Tantalyr when you say item decay, but repairable again... that means no loss in any techniques applied to the item right? Just rather simply having a condition variable, where if it gets below a certain percentage the item becomes useless, but can be repaired back to 100% with all techniques, dyes, etc already applied to the item correct?

[Ijs]

In a game as crafting-centric as Horizons is, I expect items to wear down and eventually break. Wouldn't that give people a reason to craft more?


In fact, I would take it a step further and introduce item decay to BUILDINGS. That is, make it so that people need to pay monthly maintenance or taxes, or they suffer the consequences of decay to the point of vanishing. It doesn't have to be a huge tax. And not so that people could drop down a few hundred silver and have it 'maintained' for the next three years. There'd need to be a limit, say two months, that could be paid in advance.

That might clear up many of the lots that have been abandoned by people no longer in the game.

[Tantalyr]

Tantalyr when you say item decay, but repairable again... that means no loss in any techniques applied to the item right? Just rather simply having a condition variable, where if it gets below a certain percentage the item becomes useless, but can be repaired back to 100% with all techniques, dyes, etc already applied to the item correct?

Yes, the second option in the poll means that all items could be repaired back to 100% utility, with no loss of technique components, dyes, etc.

[Mearis]

Okay, I voted for decay, but repairable never breaking. Also for note for maintenance for plot structures as was mentioned earlier... NEVER! I have three plots two being 50x50 biped and the last being my dragon's lair. I am a crafter first... my main Segorian_bounty is 100DCRA/77LS/59ADV and he is almost 900 days old. There is no way I could keep up maintenance(ie tax) on all my structures and still enjoy playing the game. I would have to dedicate at least two or three evenings to just grinding gems on fire isle to sell for money.

[Takora Drakan]

I'm for decay but, the charges should not go away if you recharge the item.

eg a scale that has 1000/0 charges and you recharge it, will have again 1000/1000, even if you recharge it a 100 times.

With that item decay i could live.

[Ijs]

There is no way I could keep up maintenance(ie tax) on all my structures and still enjoy playing the game. I would have to dedicate at least two or three evenings to just grinding gems on fire isle to sell for money.

That would be the case if it maintenance/tax was very, very expensive. However, what if it was a few copper, payable each month?

By charging reasonable, regular maintenance/taxes (and implement building decay for neglecting to pay), they can clear out abandoned lots without resorting to more 'extreme' measures.

Maintenance/taxes, as well as item degradation, also serve the purpose of being a money sink. That might be what you are more concerned about, I don't know.

[Dravatar]

I would be interested in your definiton of "abandoned lots", Ijs. A paid subscription entitles a player to a plot, not how the plot is used. As long as the subscription is in good-standing, I cannot see any equitable way to deprive a player of a plot they currently own, even if they never log in again.

If you mean simply to destroy structures on plots through the non-payment of a tax, and not remove ownership of a plot, you wind up with empty plots. That will, in my opinion, make Istaria more barren looking than it is now.

[Ijs]

I would be interested in your definiton of "abandoned lots", Ijs. A paid subscription entitles a player to a plot, not how the plot is used. As long as the subscription is in good-standing, I cannot see any equitable way to deprive a player of a plot they currently own, even if they never log in again.

If you mean simply to destroy structures on plots through the non-payment of a tax, and not remove ownership of a plot, you wind up with empty plots. That will, in my opinion, make Istaria more barren looking than it is now.

If I cancel my subscription do my buildings immediately vanish? Or do they remain, vacant?

[Tantalyr]

If I cancel my subscription do my buildings immediately vanish? Or do they remain, vacant?

Your structures remain until someone purchases the plot (at auction, most likely) and chooses to decon one or more of them.

[Theolaerynn]

I really don't get what all this is about item decay and plot taxes and the like. I mean, I know that majority of the few people left in Horizons are crafters, but not everyone is. The kinds of things being discussed here are nothing more than a huge pain in the ****** for folks that don't like to craft, and only detract from the game.

If you want to craft, by all means, craft. But it should not be a requirement of the game, nor should non-crafters be at the mercy of crafters in the name of some misguided attempt at making an illusionary economy.

On top of not having nearly enough players to produce an economy, the folks that craft tend to master all the schools that they need, and thus become self-sufficient. This means the only practical source of an economy are those that have not mastered whatever craft that you wish to exploit. There will always be some minimal amount of folks that don't mind being exploited in this manner, but I know quite a few who do.

If you want Horizons to be succesful you will have to have more subscribers than the currently tiny amount. The problem is, there is a tiny subscription because folks and devs keep implementing poorly thought out ideas like this that only appeal to a small niche of people. I know that is why I and almost all of the people I know have left.

Let me illustrate with two examples:
EQ2 uses a decay system where every death harms your stuff. You head to the NPC blacksmith and spend X money to restore it. Ok, fine, whatever. Big PITA and provides zero enjoyment. It is just a money drain, there is no fun factor to it. On the other hand, at least they don't even try to pretend it is an economy boosting idea since no player crafters can repair items (although players can produce repair kits).

My second example is exactly what will happen in Horizons: Some small percentage of folks will pay to have items repaired, but the majority will either take the craft that will enable them to repair, or will ask a guildie to do it. No economy stimulation, no fun factor for anyone but a very small niche of players, and just a huge PITA for everyone else.

How is this a positive change? I mean, sure, fuel providers think it is a great idea to hike gas prices, but who else does?

[Ijs]

Your structures remain until someone purchases the plot (at auction, most likely) and chooses to decon one or more of them.

Thanks! I didn't see anything about auctions in the FAQ. If my plot(s) automatically revert back to 'for sale' (if the sub expires) then I really don't have a problem with that.

[Guaran]

I really don't get what all this is about item decay and plot taxes and the like. I mean, I know that majority of the few people left in Horizons are crafters, but not everyone is. The kinds of things being discussed here are nothing more than a huge pain in the ****** for folks that don't like to craft, and only detract from the game.

If you want to craft, by all means, craft. But it should not be a requirement of the game, nor should non-crafters be at the mercy of crafters in the name of some misguided attempt at making an illusionary economy.

On top of not having nearly enough players to produce an economy, the folks that craft tend to master all the schools that they need, and thus become self-sufficient. This means the only practical source of an economy are those that have not mastered whatever craft that you wish to exploit. There will always be some minimal amount of folks that don't mind being exploited in this manner, but I know quite a few who do.

If you want Horizons to be succesful you will have to have more subscribers than the currently tiny amount. The problem is, there is a tiny subscription because folks and devs keep implementing poorly thought out ideas like this that only appeal to a small niche of people. I know that is why I and almost all of the people I know have left.

Let me illustrate with two examples:
EQ2 uses a decay system where every death harms your stuff. You head to the NPC blacksmith and spend X money to restore it. Ok, fine, whatever. Big PITA and provides zero enjoyment. It is just a money drain, there is no fun factor to it. On the other hand, at least they don't even try to pretend it is an economy boosting idea since no player crafters can repair items (although players can produce repair kits).

My second example is exactly what will happen in Horizons: Some small percentage of folks will pay to have items repaired, but the majority will either take the craft that will enable them to repair, or will ask a guildie to do it. No economy stimulation, no fun factor for anyone but a very small niche of players, and just a huge PITA for everyone else.

How is this a positive change? I mean, sure, fuel providers think it is a great idea to hike gas prices, but who else does?

Pretty much sums up what I was thinking.

I mean if stuff isn't going to break completely, then why bother with the whole mess? And we all know some things were so hard to get (regal, demon, valkor, other non-blighted drops) and others rare (old teched items like chest scales) that eventual breakage isn't viable.

So why bother.

I've changed my stance since the first poll, and voted for no decay at all. This would just require some huge time investment for the new dev's to implement, and there are many other things they could do where the time would be better spent. And the new dev's don't have a track record yet, it's a bit early to be making such wide-sweeping changes when we have no idea how long it would take to fix should it end up all screwed up somehow.

For now this whole concept can be buried. It's NOT going to bring in subscribers by the truckload. It's NOT going add to the fun-factor for the majority of the playerbase. It's NOT gonig to make some flourishing economy appear. (we have a perfectly good and functional guild-economy already). It WOULD add to the dev's workload and in fact take away from fun things, things that could actually keep people around longer.

Someone made an observation (Kulamata i think) that when Chris Tulumello was in charge, that positive changes to the game happened. And that lately we are back to the "less is more" philosophy. In fact it seems less people are playing. This whole decay idea smacks of the "less is more" way of things that has kept fun as a secondary concern.

It's time to shift away from that once again. If it takes all new dev's and owners to do it, then so be it.

[LaughingOtter]

By charging reasonable, regular maintenance/taxes (and implement building decay for neglecting to pay), they can clear out abandoned lots without resorting to more 'extreme' measures.

There is already a system for this in place. As long as the property owner's account is active, the property is not "abandoned". When it is, it'll be auctioned.

No need to re-invent the wheel...

[Ijs]

There is already a system for this in place. As long as the property owner's account is active, the property is not "abandoned". When it is, it'll be auctioned.

No need to re-invent the wheel...

Thank you for pointing that out Otter.

[MarshDog]

Hum I vote no decay with 30'some alts and 8-10 dragons
with most of my bipeds in mith, ironsilk and essence leather i dont have time to fix all their stuff if it is decaying, I can unserstand some of you only have maby 10-15 alts then it is no big deal to repair on that few alts, and those of you that only have 1-5 alts ya no biggy for you at all.

[Salis]

If item decay is usage based it shouldn't pose a problem.
You cannot expect people to listen to you just because you like 40 toons to play around with.
I'm not in favor of time based decay, but a moderate usage based decay could enhance game play for crafters.

[MarshDog]

You cannot expect people to listen to you just because you like 40 toons to play around with.
.

Im also a crafter the most active on Blight with the largest guild on blight i still vote no and it dont matter if i have 500 alts or 1 alt i still vote no