David Bowman Q&A Regarding The Sale

[Duergos]

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/721/721974p1.html

[Ijs]

Now that's an interesting read. Good information on some of the sale process.

One thing is clear.... David Bowman, was, and still is, a very passionate developer.

[BKBanzai]

Interesting article, thanks for posting it.

[Vlisson]

did i missed this feature? adding runes?

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Another notable element is the title's comprehensive crafting system. Skilled practitioners can fashion a broad range of weapons such as swords, axes, maces, daggers, bows and more by combining various components. For example, a knife is made by joining a blade plus a hilt, with greater proficiency affording more options. As well, a character who has mastered the appropriate techniques can add diverse runes, fire, visual effects and decorations like tassels.

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quote DB:
Horizons would not exist today if I had not been persistent, and most of the features that players enjoy are due to my ideas for construction, crafting, multi-schooling, Dragon rites of passage and maturation, land ownership, guild communities and others

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i thought the multiclass system dont work like intended? ^^

but interesting interview

thanks for the link

[Greenclaw1]

Good read but, if David B thinks there's a future for the Evolution Engine his dreaming! It's an engine developed to make games on consoles platforms originally! It’s Easily one of the worst engines out there to develop MMO’s for the Pc on!

[Joaqim]

Good read but, if David B thinks there's a future for the Evolution Engine his dreaming! It's an engine developed to make games on consoles platforms originally! It’s Easily one of the worst engines out there to develop MMO’s for the Pc on!

Maybe it just needs a bit more evolution

[Kipeo]

To clarify, the Evolution Engine is the server achitecture NOT the client (which is based on the Alchemy Rendering Engine).

[HratLi]

To clarify, the Evolution Engine is the server achitecture NOT the client (which is based on the Alchemy Rendering Engine).

Heck BOTH of them are buggy and poorly suited for the task.

"Never trust the Client, it's in the hands of the Enemy."

-HratLi

[Goriax]

I see I wasn't the only one worried about EI's lack of development understanding. HZ is not a fancy web site and a healthy MMOG cannot remain static. I think that's going to be their Achilles heal. If they don't put together a solid development team (which they haven't yet) HZ will gradually wither and die.

[Theolaerynn]

did i missed this feature? adding runes?

*************************************
Another notable element is the title's comprehensive crafting system. Skilled practitioners can fashion a broad range of weapons such as swords, axes, maces, daggers, bows and more by combining various components. For example, a knife is made by joining a blade plus a hilt, with greater proficiency affording more options. As well, a character who has mastered the appropriate techniques can add diverse runes, fire, visual effects and decorations like tassels.

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These are just examples of the many promised features that never actually made it into the game. In fact, the closest they came was allowing crafters to select from different looks to some of the weapons, and it took AE a very long time to get that much in.

If you paid very close attention to the interview you will notice an interesting coincidence on the timeline. It sure looks like David knew Horizons was up for sale before touting the expansion pack. If this is true then it would stand to reason that it was just smoke and mirrors to get the subscription rates (and selling price) higher. Toss in the conversations stating how there wasn't even anything on paper really, even after a number of months talking about it, and it would further suggest they never intended to work on it at all.

Another point worth considering is that there are conflicting stories about the expansion. David said that EI owns all the rights to the expansion, as the sale announcement would also suggest when saying that all Horizons assests except the engine had been purchased. EI, if I remember the thread correctly, stated that they had not bought the rights to the expansion but would consider it if the community was interested. I suspect that indicates the person posting was not entirely sure what they had purchased, and that they are a bit more disorganized than one would hope.

The interview reminds me very much of the quote often attributed to Winston Churchill: "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it".

[Kelsaka]

did i missed this feature? adding runes?

*************************************
Another notable element is the title's comprehensive crafting system. Skilled practitioners can fashion a broad range of weapons such as swords, axes, maces, daggers, bows and more by combining various components. For example, a knife is made by joining a blade plus a hilt, with greater proficiency affording more options. As well, a character who has mastered the appropriate techniques can add diverse runes, fire, visual effects and decorations like tassels.

That description was what gave me the final *push* into trying the trial so I was a little disappointed when I found it wasn't the case. But nevermind, I enjoyed the crafting enough to stay.

[Chioxin]

Aye, agreed... I wanted to see that so badly. They eventually added in the ability to have different hilts and blades but still.... doesn't compare to what I thought would be there =( Oh well.... I'm just a massive pile of flesh and scales anyway with wings to get me to and fro =) I just like purdy things in my lair!

[Vlisson]

if i remember correct EI bought all rights from the expansion too

but its only some letters on a paper

nothing more than an idea

i havent put too much trust in DB but thats very frustrating that this announced expansion was only a fake

[Menkure]

If you paid very close attention to the interview you will notice an interesting coincidence on the timeline. It sure looks like David knew Horizons was up for sale before touting the expansion pack. If this is true then it would stand to reason that it was just smoke and mirrors to get the subscription rates (and selling price) higher. Toss in the conversations stating how there wasn't even anything on paper really, even after a number of months talking about it, and it would further suggest they never intended to work on it at all.

To quote the interview, David Bowman knew specifically that the investor had come to the decision to sell HZ in the spring of this year.

He also stated that he was introduced to a representative of EI by a consultant working for the investor while at E3 in May.. E3 was where the announcement was made for the expansion.

David said that the meeting "was short and terse, and we didn't reach much agreement other than to continue to explore a relationship."


In business, talk is talk.. and talk is cheap.. If someone is interested in continuing to explore a relationship with you.. that DOES NOT MEAN you stop everything you are doing presently.

If no contract is signed and nothing is put down in writing.. then business continues on as usual.

And that is what Tulga did. They continued development on Horizons, with bug fixes and patches, and also continued planning on the "settlements" expansion. Then when the sale finally went through and agreements/sales contracts were signed, EI took over Horizons. Horizons is now EI's and it is their sole discretion as to what they will do with it.

So, as per the Settlements announcement... That's not smoke and mirrors.. that's business..

Another point worth considering is that there are conflicting stories about the expansion. David said that EI owns all the rights to the expansion, as the sale announcement would also suggest when saying that all Horizons assests except the engine had been purchased. EI, if I remember the thread correctly, stated that they had not bought the rights to the expansion but would consider it if the community was interested. I suspect that indicates the person posting was not entirely sure what they had purchased, and that they are a bit more disorganized than one would hope.

I never heard anyone from EI state that they had not 'bought the rights' to the expansion.

Technically, what rights are there to buy? Without the ownership of the IP ((Intellectual Property, meaning all copyrights, trademarks, artwork, and game assets)), the expansion is worthless and useless to Tulga. Why would they NOT include it in the sale with the rest of Horizons? And besides, I can't think of any reason why the investor would not include the "settlements" in along with the rest of the IP.

It's sorta like selling a car, but yanking off the spoiler off the back and selling the car plain.. even though you will never get another car exactly like that, and the spoiler is totally worthless without that specific car. What are you gonna do with the spoiler? Throw it in the back of your garage for it to gather dust?

The interview reminds me very much of the quote often attributed to Winston Churchill: "History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it".

Instead of accusing David Bowman of writing history.. here's another quote to consider..

"There are three sides to every story.. your's, mine, and the TRUTH!"

-Menkure

[LaughingOtter]

if i remember correct EI bought all rights from the expansion too

but its only some letters on a paper

nothing more than an idea

i havent put too much trust in DB but thats very frustrating that this announced expansion was only a fake

My understanding is that Amon was writing the design document when the takeover happened. This is, in its final form, a 200-300 page catalog of the design goals, the requirements each design item has to meet, the technical requirements and systems these items will use, the technology (if any) that needs to be developed for each feature, etc. The design document is what tells the programmers, content team, artists, and quality control what needs to happen and what the expectations are for each new feature.

The design document has to be reviewed and approved by all departments involved before any work begins, since it is the standard reference which will guide the entire project.

It sounds like it was turned over to EI along with the other Horizons assets, but dismissed out of hand. What we don't know is how much had been done on it at that time. It's far from 'nothing but an idea', however. Given the fact that nobody with EI has any experience operating an MMO of this size or actually doing development work on one, it's easy to see how they might have discounted the design document even if it had been ready to be finalized.

[Khargu Wildeye]

My understanding is that Amon was writing the design document when the takeover happened. This is, in its final form, a 200-300 page catalog of the design goals, the requirements each design item has to meet, the technical requirements and systems these items will use, the technology (if any) that needs to be developed for each feature, etc. The design document is what tells the programmers, content team, artists, and quality control what needs to happen and what the expectations are for each new feature.

The design document has to be reviewed and approved by all departments involved before any work begins, since it is the standard reference which will guide the entire project.

It sounds like it was turned over to EI along with the other Horizons assets, but dismissed out of hand. What we don't know is how much had been done on it at that time. It's far from 'nothing but an idea', however. Given the fact that nobody with EI has any experience operating an MMO of this size or actually doing development work on one, it's easy to see how they might have discounted the design document even if it had been ready to be finalized.

as qouted from the RPG Vault article

Jonric: Will EI continue to develop Horizons? And what about the Settlements expansion announced in May?


David Bowman: EI has chosen to not discuss development plans that they might have at this time and I cannot provide that information. The Settlements was still only in the planned implementation stage at the time of acquisition, but they have all rights to pursue its development if they wish.

Pretty much sums it all up in a nutshell in case anyone wanted to argue against the point.

[Uther Blade]

Here comes the quotes and the miss quotes.. the I said this.. the, they say I said this... blah blah blah

Come on folks... PLAY!!

We all have something to contribute.. and again that is in game.. PLAYING!!!

See you there

[Jayne]

We are playing. Well until sub runs out or the billing is fixed

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

Good read but, if David B thinks there's a future for the Evolution Engine his dreaming! It's an engine developed to make games on consoles platforms originally! It’s Easily one of the worst engines out there to develop MMO’s for the Pc on!

You're thinking of the Intrinsic Alchemy rendering engine used for the game client. The "evolution engine" refers to the server/simulation/database systems that are more or less transparent to the player except when the occasional world server goes down or the database hasn't yet finished its queue after a restart. There's a rediculous amount of abstraction involved with the evolution engine that would make developing a new game easy, quick, and cheap without any new technology. My experiences with the game server tech have always been positive, I used to play Horizons over a satellite connection with ping times in the 1000-2000ms range and never missed a beatdown.

At least that was my understanding after prodding a few people from the technical side of the offices.

[Theolaerynn]

We disagree greatly on our interpretation of events, and that is perfectly fine. I would like to clear up some things it seems you have misunderstood about my post, though.

In business, talk is talk.. and talk is cheap.. If someone is interested in continuing to explore a relationship with you.. that DOES NOT MEAN you stop everything you are doing presently.

If no contract is signed and nothing is put down in writing.. then business continues on as usual.

And that is what Tulga did. They continued development on Horizons, with bug fixes and patches, and also continued planning on the "settlements" expansion. Then when the sale finally went through and agreements/sales contracts were signed, EI took over Horizons. Horizons is now EI's and it is their sole discretion as to what they will do with it.

So, as per the Settlements announcement... That's not smoke and mirrors.. that's business..

First off, I never said David knew which company was going to buy Horizons, simply that he knew quite a while ago that it was up for sale. That is an entirely different thing. EI seems to have entered the picture a after the expansion was announced. My point was that it seems to me that David knew the expansion was highly improbably, and that it was part of what I feel was a shell game to bring in more subscriptions.

As for it being business, I agree completely. But not all business is good business, nor is it always healthy for the consumer. It certainly does not have to be illegal to screw you just the same.

I never heard anyone from EI state that they had not 'bought the rights' to the expansion.

Technically, what rights are there to buy? Without the ownership of the IP ((Intellectual Property, meaning all copyrights, trademarks, artwork, and game assets)), the expansion is worthless and useless to Tulga. Why would they NOT include it in the sale with the rest of Horizons? And besides, I can't think of any reason why the investor would not include the "settlements" in along with the rest of the IP.

It's sorta like selling a car, but yanking off the spoiler off the back and selling the car plain.. even though you will never get another car exactly like that, and the spoiler is totally worthless without that specific car. What are you gonna do with the spoiler? Throw it in the back of your garage for it to gather dust?

I wasn't arguing that Tulga might not have sold the rights to the expansion, I am quite certain that they did. It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't. I was commenting on the confusion that seems to have surrounded EI after they made their purchase.

Instead of accusing David Bowman of writing history.. here's another quote to consider..

"There are three sides to every story.. your's, mine, and the TRUTH!"

This is absolutely true, as is the saying about those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it. In the end we each must make our own decision about which history to base future decisions on. Given that we will probably never know the full truth, all that is left is our own perceptions.

I know I personally have learned much from this experience, and I will certainly be applying that knowledge in the future.