To the Players and EI

[Warsong]

Kwinn

I agree as well, I wanted to share something from a book I have read that I really try and use in my daily life. The book is titled "Don't Sweat the Small Stuff... and its all small stuff

Imagine that Everyone is Enlightened Except you.

This Strategy gives you a chance to practice something that is probable completely unacceptable to you. However, if you give it a try you might find that its one of the most helpful exercises in self improvement.

As the title suggests, the idea is to imagine that everyone you know and everyone you meet is perfectly enlightened. That is everyone except you! The people you meet are all here to teach you something. Perhaps the obnoxious driver or the disrespectful teenager is here to teach you about patience, the punk rocker might be here to teach you to be less judgemental.

Your job is to try and determine what the people in your life are trying to teach you. You'll find that if you do this, you'll be far less annoyed, bothered and frustrated by the actions and imperfections of other people. You can actually get yourself in the habit of approaching life in this manner and if you do you'll be glad you did. Often once you discover what someone is trying to teach you it's easy to let go of your frustration. For Example suppose your in the post office and the postal clerk appears to be intentionally moving slowly. Rather than feeling frustratedm ask yourself the question " What is he trying to teach me?" Maybe you need to learn about compasion. How hard it would be to have a job that you dont like. Or Perhaps you could learn a little more about being patient. Standing in line is an excellant oppertunity to break your habit of feeling impatient.

You may be surprised at how fun and easy this is. All you're really doing is changing your perception from why are they doing this to What are they trying to teach me? Take a look around at all the enlightened People.


Just my opinion take it or leave it. Although it does make a differance in my life and the patients I have for those around me.

[Jayne]

Exactly Theo. When all is said and done this is a game just like Aamer mention and many of us has mentioned in the past. We mention it when someone else is in there upset mode. As I state everyone has a different issue that causes them to be a little more vocal then with other issues.

Yes some are toooooooo emotional and say thing which others take as bashing or whatever. Then the other side is toooooo nice and literally sugarcoats every move made even if its wrong.

Yes there is a nice in between, we all need to find that.

When its all said and done this is just a game. Like Peaches said She hit the epitomy of the deep hole when HZ was sold. Again she said when it was "Sold". As did many others, all of whom have different ways to release that frustration. None of them are right or wrong with how they vent that frustration.

now what does concern me is what if one day we can't log in or the game is gone? And what if there is no communication on the matter? What will that person do, lord knows I hate to find out

Jayne

[Theolaerynn]

Its great that we can discuss issues of Horizons, a meeting of the minds so to speak. However, please remember, that any concerns about EI, should be taken directly up with them, via email or board pms. We must break away from slamming them on the boards, and post responsibly. Not only that, drudging up hard feelings doesn't promote the spirit of our community.

Thank you

Why is this, Peaches? Isn't this exactly the place to voice our concerns? And if EI has done things worthy of criticism, as they definitely have done, isn't this the place to voice those as well?

If we post legitimate concerns here then that gives EI a chance to respond to them, something a savy company would see the value in.

If, on the other hand, we must voice our concerns elsewhere then all that does is promote negetive feelings for a game that frankly doesn't have enough current subscribers as is. It certainly cannot afford to lose any more potential customers.

Think about it. Look how far things have goten out of hand because EI refused to talk to us? Had they come here and communicated with us and kept us in the loop, I am pretty sure things would not have blown up as much as they have.

Just because you delete posts that say things you don't want to hear doesn't mean the world is all fuzzy kittens and magic ponies. Ignoring the problem usually serves to make it much worse. Again, the recent case and point.

[Peaches]

Exactly Theo. When all is said and done this is a game just like Aamer mention and many of us has mentioned in the past. We mention it when someone else is in there upset mode. As I state everyone has a different issue that causes them to be a little more vocal then with other issues.

Yes some are toooooooo emotional and say thing which others take as bashing or whatever. Then the other side is toooooo nice and literally sugarcoats every move made even if its wrong.

Yes there is a nice in between, we all need to find that.

When its all said and done this is just a game. Like Peaches said She hit the epitomy of the deep hole when HZ was sold. Again she said when it was "Sold". As did many others, all of whom have different ways to release that frustration. None of them are right or wrong with how they vent that frustration.

now what does concern me is what if one day we can't log in or the game is gone? And what if there is no communication on the matter? What will that person do, lord knows I hate to find out

Jayne

I would probably grieve for the loss, as anyone else would as well, then pick myself up and immerse myself into another game, and another game...........
I would definately stay in touch with the close friends I have acquired through the wonderful virtual world, called Horizons.

[Jayne]

Yes I agree the boards is the main place to discuss and announce. But I dont think all other avenues should be ignored. I say all avenues of communication are good. IRC, Boards, in game, etc.

No one is better then anyother. I see many bashing IRC. i personally never went there really till the sale happened and that was to see if there was any news because we were blindsided and shocked at the sale. In game is not good for everyone either because some people have bashed others in MP and really many dont even go their anymore. Nor is standing with your toon in a town.

There should be announcements when you log on and post on news on boards at least. And if you all look objectively to what has been posted so far I think you would all agree there should be more communication. Even if that message is "Yes we know there are problems with Unity and we are currently working on it"

No, I dont expect some player to post a conversation they had with someone from EI onto the boards, that does not count as an offical announcement or message in my eyes. Thats hear say and as many have said those copy and paste posts can be editted.

Jayne

[Hiko]

The respect you mention was earned. AE/TG earned it over a period of years. EI has had it far less.

My point was that IMO, EI has not even tried to earn it.

Secretive Planning? Are you privy to something we don't know, perhaps?

That is just a play on words if you will.

Yes, the forums are for the players. They are for the player to use them constructively for the betterment of the community and the game. That's not what was happening. There is a lot of talk about free speech on this and I'm not real sure some know exactly what that entails. Free speech does not absolve you of the consequences of what you say.

true, but we never even had a chance to be subjected to those consequences. The method of communication between players, one thing that has kept this game alive was completely cut off. I'm not talking about free speech. I know the law and how little weight it holds on a private forum like here. Free speech is about our god given right to express ourselves. In a similar transform, MMO forums evolved as player's undeniable right to communicate amongst themselves. To remove this is to deny the very meaning of an MMO.

TG didn't inact every suggestion made by the players. That's ignoring your opinion, too. Do you call that censorship as well? They didn't even respond to every suggestion saying it was a worthwhile idea or not. Personally, I wouldn't expect them to.

That is failing to take up our suggestion. Huge difference. TG didn't respond to every suggestion, however they responded to more than I have ever witnessed in companies that have been around for far longer. And I never suggested that ignoring our opinions was censorship. Let us be clear on that.

The shards are still up. You can still play the game so apparently they're paying the electric bill. They've hired staff.

To point these out as "things they have done right" just shows how we as a community are grasping for straws and reasons to hope for them. It is good that we are optimistic, but should we have to try so hard?

I have seen some positive steps though. As long as I can log in and play, there is hope for this game and community and I chose to hold on to that as long as I can.

In my opinion at least, maintaining the status quo is not a positive step, simply what is expected of them. We do not applaud each other for our ability to adsorb oxgen and expell carbon dioxide from our bodies do we?

[BKBanzai]

If we are to be objective then these slams need to stop. That includes the statement Ray gave about billing, that TG is at fault and wont give up imformation. I personally I have no idea if thats true or not, but I certainly am not going to take ones persons word that it is. That sort of business practice is not needed here. Lets just simply state that we are having some issues and leave it at that.

If they just stated they had some issues and "left it at that", they'd get massacred for being incompetant, unprepared, unbusinesslike, etc. I think what they've done is communicate quite simply where the hold up lies.

If anyone were in their shoes and being flayed over this and this is something out of their control and solely in the hands of what remains of TG then...well, I'd definitely be communicating and telling people where to direct their hate mail and their threatened lawsuits.

I find it interesting that all the flaming posts on "get me out of this game right now EI, you money-grubbing, profit-mongering whatevers..." have not been redirected to TG, instead it's been, "hey, don't slam TG" or "there's no proof TG is doing that".

[Frith-Rae]

General Negativity and trolling is bad.

"Negativity" expressed by facts of the situation - is expressing the facts of the situation.

If you're expecting people who are in a bad situation, because of the actions or inactions of EI, to not be a little "negative" when they express themselves, you're shooting for the moon.

ITs a big different to me between moderating outright rude, or trolling, posts - and locking or moderating posts that deal exactly with concerns and issues that aren't "positive" issues so to speak.

Were the boards getting out of hand? HOnestly no, I didn't think they were. Why? Because I felt the great majority of posts were expressing TRUE and ACTUAL concerns and issues that were happeing with this game and the new company. People were frustrated due to klack of answers, and the improper way those answers were being conveyed.

WHo's fault is it that the majority of the posters felt that way? The poster's fault? Or the company's?

Some of those posts and threads yes, deserved moderation and lockdown. Most of them that were taken out did *not*.

And that was not necessary.

Reasonable negativity, or what perhaps I would call "fair and expected" negativity over certain things that have gone on recently (and anything that comes up in the future) SHOULD and MUST be allowed to be expressed and discussed here.

And wether that is allowed - will determine the future of this community, and of course, this game. For forum reputation goes a long way towards product reputation and word of mouth.

[Jayne]

Yes I find alot of posts interesting. Mine was a general "We need to stop" Thats means all of us. It didnt say "you" and it didnt say "I" it said "WE".

[Arzel Rashemi]

If they just stated they had some issues and "left it at that", they'd get massacred for being incompetant, unprepared, unbusinesslike, etc. I think what they've done is communicate quite simply where the hold up lies.

Agreed. It seems no matter what manner of way things are communicated, keeping in mind that non-communication is a form of communication, there are four ways any communication is going to be taken by the reader. That individual will be unhappy about the way and manner things were said, read too much into it, take too little out of it, or just accept it. Or perhaps a mix of these four. Afterall, I follow the addage you can make some people happy all of the time, some of the people happy some of the time, but you can never make all people happy all of the time.

That's why I'm very patient with this whole mess and letting the entire spanse of uncivillity and other unsultry things that are happening slide off of me like water off a ducks back. Things will sort themselves out, and I don't have the phenomenol cosmic powers to affect how. (I just have my itty bitty 'virtual' living space.)

[FleshRoast]

In my opinion at least, maintaining the status quo is not a positive step, simply what is expected of them. We do not applaud each other for our ability to adsorb oxgen and expell carbon dioxide from our bodies do we?

Actually, at only age 50 and having two infarctions behind me, I *do* applaude myself and others for the act of respiration.

Thank you for your clarifications. I note there was one paragraph of my post you did not address.

"Don't misunderstand me. I'm by no means saying that there isn't room for improvement. I'm not happy about the billing problems. I didn't like the fact that a bottom line sold the game. I really don't like the fact that our community is picking, poking and jabbing at itself. Is there some respect and trust that must be earned? Absolutely."

I am not of the mind that all is well with the game nor the community. It isn't. I am simply saying I am still willing to be patient for a bit. Not only with EI, but with our community as well.

[Eileen Mavourneen]

The bashing has got to stop. The negativity has got to stop. Its one thing to be concerned about the future of the game, concerned over billing issues, concerned over your little piece of the pie but, it’s altogether different to just go off the deep end and bash for the sake of bashing alone.
...

It would be a sad epitaph for Horizons: Empire of Istaria if it read “How do you make a small fortune with an MMO? You start with a large fortune and then you buy Horizons�

Wow, I'm late to post here and I usually try to keep out of it, but I don't think I've ever been so completely in agreement with Kwinn before in the history of Istaria and thought maybe I should post a "Hear, hear!" to comemorate the event in case it never happens again. I didn't see anything to disagree with in this post at all.

[LaughingOtter]

The bashing has got to stop.

If you want an end to the bashing, you might start by not bashing people who don't agree with you right after you ask people to stop bashing one another.

[Duergos]

I bow down to the uber multiclassed bi ped!! I bow down to the superior intellect. Please tell me what to think!! Please tell me what to do!! The fact that the blue vexators cringe in your presence must mean that I should also revere you in the RW!!!!!

[Cebiliis]

Kwinn my friend thank you for posting what you did and I agree with you. Negativity can get us no where, and it makes me sigh with relief to see others post some "negativity" but in a constructive way, in a way that we can all see there point of view instead of "EI doesn't know a screwdriver from a pencil".

[Kwinn]

If you want an end to the bashing, you might start by not bashing people who don't agree with you right after you ask people to stop bashing one another.

Care to cite an example of who I bashed after posting this?

[LaughingOtter]

Care to cite an example of who I bashed after posting this?

How about the entire seventh paragraph of your initial post?

[Kwinn]

How about the entire seventh paragraph of your initial post?

Paragraph 7:

The communication between player base and EI has been quite the bone of contention. AE/TG communicated regularly. EI does not. We got spoiled by the previous owners. Does this make EI wrong? Absolutely not, it makes them different. That seems to be how they prefer to do business. If so, that’s fine by me. I can’t find anything, anywhere that states that EI is under any obligation to communicate with the player base in any fashion. That they do is, IMO, a courtesy. And the general response to any EI communication has been far from courteous. Small wonder they don’t communicate much. If I got my head ripped off every time I said something I think I would just shut up and go away.


What part of that is bashing? You throw out an accusation without details. Try to be specific if at all possible.

[LaughingOtter]

My bad. Paragraph eight.

The bottom line is this: Horizons has new owners. The game BELONGS to EI. We pay a monthly fee for the Privilege of PLAYING the game. We don’t own it; we have no say in anything that happens to it. It IS NOT our property. Some of us feel our input should carry as much weight as that of the owners. Ego is rampant. Those same ego driven players are the biggest bashers, their status as big imaginary fish in a small imaginary pond has vanished and they are lashing out like a spoiled child that suddenly realized a toy he never played with or cared about is gone. Regardless of how long any of us have been customers; our value is $12.95 per month. That’s it, not very pleasant to consider but, you strip away everything else and that’s all that’s left. Will the game survive? I don’t know, I hope so. Will EI make it what it can be? I don’t know, I hope so. Will all the bashing help? Most certainly not. I can’t help but be left with the impression that some players would bash ********** ************ Reincarnate if he bought the game.

Asking when people will be able to cancel their accounts is not bashing. Asking that EI inform those individuals who's personal information might have been comprimised due to EI's failure to secure the billing information page isn't bashing. Asking when EI will be in a position to demonstrate that they have the desire and ability to fix bugs, add content, and add game features isn't bashing. These are reasonable questions which I, as their customer, am entitled to ask and am entitled to require answers for.

[Deth]

LO I agree 100%. I may not "own" my pixel property but I have a vested interested in what happens to it. My 12.95 a month gives me the right to put in my 2c about what is done with it and to request things. I do not expect more then to be listened to and what I request weighted against the plans of the Dev team for it's merit.

As to bashing ********** it would depend on how he ran the game. If he was doing the same as EI I would feel and be responding the same. Is EI had come out from the first and Talked to us from the first and said we are in a planing phase right now we will up date you as plans get firmed up. Had came ut and posted that "We are sorry, we screwed up on the billing issues. ANd have contacted the people that this may cause a problem for." I would not have "bashed". I am willing to give them time if they are willing to at least give me a little info back.