Meh, I'll prolly get flamed for this....

[Dhalin]

Before I start, I would like to implore the readers of this thread to please not take offense at them.

I am aiming this at no one in specific, I am aiming this at no one person, no one group in particular, except for the group guilty of the _actions_ spoken of in this post.

Before you read on, this is a Religious discussion. if you are Religious and do not like Religious discussions, please click the Back Button. If you are Not Religious, and do not want to hear about Religion, then please click the Back Button.

Again, this is not meant to be insultive, I am not trying to offend anyone with this, the whole purpose of this thread is to express my concerns and curiosities about why some people do what they do nowadays.

Before I go on, I will explain a little about myself. I'm a 26 year old man, and I'm a Christian. I go to Church sometimes, I read a little of the Bible now and then, and I have a basic understanding of the core concepts behind Christianity, even if I don't follow what other Christians tell me I should.

I'm pretty open-minded, I respect and treat all sorts of people the way they should be treated: As fellow human beings. Very rarely will I ever persecute anyone for religion, I have (or had) a few Wiccan friends, I've known a few Catholics (I'm probably best described as Protestant myself), and I've known a few homosexual people, and I've known people who have had pre-marital sex, and they are my friends all the same.

Before I say anything else... when I say "Christians" with quotation marks... I am talking about people who call themselves "Christian" and yet do the below mentioned things. Not all Christians do these things, as I myself certainly Don't, and I know a few others that are like me as well. Again, I am NOT referring to you, the reader, unless you are guilty of the things below.

What is really bugging me nowadays, is the hate flying around the world. You see it everywhere, you see people call themselves Christians, and then proceed to hate the nearest person becuase they are gay. Because they had pre-marital sex. Because they believe in Wicca, or Goth, or Buddhism, or becuase they had children out of wedlock.

I full well understand that we should act as Teachers whenever we observe someone breaking God's ideals, but Good Lord, some of the things I see "Christians" doing, makes me wonder if they worship God, or if they are truly worshipping Satan. Some of the Hateful things I've seen some "Christians" doing nowadays.... geez...

Whatever happened to us being Teachers? To us trying to guide others into God's open arms, trying to guide others so that they can return the love He gives us, to Him? What I see Christians doing lately (Christians, all throughout History have been doing it too), is downright Hating people.

Since when did God and Christianity become a license to Hate? A License to Berate, Belittle, and make fun of people? A License to -kill-? Odd, I could have sworn that the Lord's Prayer has a line that says something like this:

"...Forgive us of our tresspasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us..."

Whatever happened to that? Things like Homosexuality, Pre-Marital Sex, Other Religions, and such are tresspasses against God Himself. Who are we mortals to judge and punish those who trespass against God? *blink* This is something I never understood. I do not remember God ever saying anywhere that we should Judge, Hate, and Punish those who go against our interpretation of the Bible, God's Word. IMHO, this is something that God, and only God has the right to do.

As Christians, it is our duty to inform them that we believe in a God, who sent his only begotten Son to Earth to die on the cross to give us a chance at redemption, and that said God said that [x thing here] is wrong and shouldn't be done. We should be telling them politely, and in a professional way, that its just not right.

I see a lot of "Christians" taking that too far, though. They go the whole distance, they bring out the Hate, the berating, the flaming, and everything. If anything, this is making those people hate Christianity, and worst of all, some of these people who have had Hate thrown at them by "Christians", some of them hate God. I don't know about any of you, and I'm not sitting here saying I know what God thinks at any given time, but.... I have my doubts God is happy when a "Christian" causes someone to hate God, His Son, and the entire Religion because of this Hate-Mongering we see everywhere.

My pleas to "Christians" who do this: Please... take a look at the Bible. Read the Lord's Prayer closely. Pay Attention.. would God want you to Hate people you personally disagree with? Would God want you turning people against Him and His Son? Would God smile upon you after you die and are Judged for these actions?

Please... instead of Hating these poor people, why not take the time to Love them as God has told us to do, several times, in the Bible. "Love Thy Neighbor" I believe is how He put it. There's an awful lot of hate flying around this world, and so little Love...

My apologies for the religious rant, but this has been bothering me lately...

--Dhalin

[Sigi]

"LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF"
indeed, that would do the world a lot of good, allthough there might be a lot of selfhate going around...

[Khosadan]

People will always take what was initially a good thing, with virtuous goals, and corrupt it. Same goes for religion.

[Zarcharien]

Nice post.
I completly agree with you and feel the same way you do.

[Dremora]

The first half of this post will probably sound like flaming, but please bare with me here.

I am not Christian, completely opposite infact. And no, I do not sacrifice people and animals and wear black clothing and act all evil. Those are what pimply-faced emos think we do.

Anyway, I used to be Christian, even went to all private schools except two, and one day I decided to think for myself and what I believe in. I personally think that forcing yourself to love everyone is ridiculous, and that all the anger some of those Christians have is the result of what they bottle up inside in attempting to be "holy".

It's good that some people actually do believe in the whole ********** thing with all their hearts, and I agree that people who hate everything and everyone different from themselves and believe them to be "evil" are complete idiots.

One time I watched this show, Wife Swap, where this Christian lady went to this spiritual person's home and vice versa. She was saying how everything in the house was evil, that they worshipped the stars, AND MY GOD, THE GARGOYLES! I was a bit surprised that such a "hard core" Christian didn't know that gargoyles were actually put on old churches as guardians. She actually looked like the 'evil' one to me. Here's a clip for those interested (really quite humorous) - http://www.leakingpen.com/item/599

These kinds of people, closed-minded fools, and the fact that as Christianity rose they claimed other religions to be "of the devil", even going so far as to alter the meaning of the word demon (derrived from a word meaning nuetral spirit), is the reason why I hate Christianity. Does this mean I hate anyone who is a Christian? No. But if you talk about your god and try to force your religion on me, expect all hell to break loose.

In short, people are stupid (which is quite obvious already). It's quite amazing how a religion that was intended to be good got all twisted up.

[Duergos]

If you study the old testament prophecy in Joel, Daniel, Isaiah, Psalms et al, and the new testament prophecies in Revelations, it can be seen that the sorry state of our world as it is, was foretold a long long time ago. We are seeing prophecy being fullfiilled each day.....

[Sigi]

If you study the old testament prophecy in Joel, Daniel, Isaiah, Psalms et al, and the new testament prophecies in Revelations, it can be seen that the sorry state of our world as it is, was foretold a long long time ago. We are seeing prophecy being fullfiilled each day.....

Not much of a prophecy if you ask me.
If you've ever watched humans interact for more than 5 seconds it's not so hard to predict isn't it?

It just would be nice if people would respect eachother whatever and on whatever ground, based on religion or humanism or pick your choice, without the my god is better than yours contest.

[Duergos]

Hey I am not sure I believe the bunk myself, I am merely suggesting that if one reads the biblical prophecies, they provide a basic explanation for the state of affairs on planet earth today....

My personal opinion is that if their is a higher power he needs to clean house and stary over....cuz this place sucks. (this place meaning earth)

[Sigi]

hmm, in that case, hope the housecleaning starts after I'm dead, don't like to be a victim of lousy design (if there is any )

[CallakDW]

I don't need to read any book of any god to know right from wrong. Too many people use religion to convince themselves that they are good people, when in fact they are self serving. What you speak of, Dhalin, are morals, and just because you read the "good book" doesn't mean you have them.

[Dremora]

Heh, prophecy..

People who look back and quote things from the bible annoy me.. I mean, are we really to trust a book written over 2,000 years ago? Bible, by the way, literally translates to 'book'.

If there is a higher power, he isn't doing a very good job. The way I see it, people are responsible for their own actions and as such should deal with them.

[Aria]

I find it interesting many christians nowadays subscribe to a book translated by a man in a patriarchal society, commisioned by a king, and approved by a pope into old english from latin.....the potential wiggle room here is staggering lol. Ancient Hebrew -> Latin -> Old English....well lets just say that I somehow doubt purity of spirit and just scholarship ruled the day in these translations People in power go great lengths to protect, justify, and assure continuance of said power...just food for thought lol.

[Tantalyr]

I find it interesting many christians nowadays subscribe to a book translated by a man in a patriarchal society, commisioned by a king, and approved by a pope into old english from latin.....the potential wiggle room here is staggering lol. Ancient Hebrew -> Latin -> Old English....well lets just say that I somehow doubt purity of spirit and just scholarship ruled the day in these translations People in power go great lengths to protect, justify, and assure continuance of said power...just food for thought lol.

Actually, depending on the book the chain goes Hebrew->Greek->Latin->English (for many Old Testament books), and Aramaic->Greek/Latin->English (for most of the New Testament books).

And you are spot on in suggesting that much of the original meaning got lost and/or deliberately changed along the way. Try reading The Misquoted ********** by the chairman of the theology department of the University of North Carolina for a real eye-opener.

[Aria]

Actually, depending on the book the chain goes Hebrew->Greek->Latin->English (for many Old Testament books), and Aramaic->Greek/Latin->English (for most of the New Testament books).

Thanks for the clarification

And you are spot on in suggesting that much of the original meaning got lost and/or deliberately changed along the way. Try reading The Misquoted ********** by the chairman of the theology department of the University of North Carolina for a real eye-opener.

I will definitely look into that, I so enjoy good reads, particularly the eye opening ones (Howard Zinn comes to mind here)

[Sigi]

Another reading tip: Small gods by Terry Pratchett.

In the beginning was the Word.
And the Word was: "Hey, you!"

I like his view at what happens next when you die, very much too.

[Sephix Runus]

I'm just going to say something on this form and I beleave strongly that this link should be dead considering that religion shouldn't be discussed in the gaming forms in the first place. Some people who play this game doesn't need to hear about other's beleifs in their own ways or religion peirod... Keep it gaming infomation or complaints, but keep religion or politics out of it.. Its best this way because some of us are not ' Christains.' Not to dishonor nor critizise people who are just saying to keep it as gaming. Thank you!

[TheHaunt]

This section is for off topic threads, and discussions here have been about many things and I find it interesting. IF I don't like the "flavor" of a thread, I simply don't read it any further. Like the TV, if you don't like what's on, turn it off. Easy.

Now... I was raised in a Protestant Christian home. There are Catholics in my family, as well as Methodists, Southern Baptists, and Pentacostals... and even a couple of Buddhists.

I no longer attend "formal" church gatherings because I personally don't deal well with hypocrisy and, unfortunately, it causes too much strife in my family when I draw attention to issues that I see as not following what ********** set out to teach. Debates on conservative and liberal "translations" of the Bible get old... I just don't want to deal with that stuff anymore.

Am I a Christian? ... well sorta. I have a set of truths that I believe in, and many of them are Christian concepts... but one thing that I've found as a recurring theme in most "organized" religions is some form of the Golden Rule- Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you... treat people like you want to be treated... etc...

To me, that one theme is worthy to base a lifestyle on, and what I try to live by...

[Duergos]

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you? Blimey!!! The muslims are buggered

[Dremora]

I'm just going to say something on this form and I beleave strongly that this link should be dead considering that religion shouldn't be discussed in the gaming forms in the first place. Some people who play this game doesn't need to hear about other's beleifs in their own ways or religion peirod... Keep it gaming infomation or complaints, but keep religion or politics out of it.. Its best this way because some of us are not ' Christains.' Not to dishonor nor critizise people who are just saying to keep it as gaming. Thank you!

What are you, a forum admin? Like TheHaunt said, this is an OFF TOPIC forum for OFF TOPIC THINGS UNRELATED TO GAMING. Dhalin clearly stated at the beginning of his post that if you don't want to get involved in this discussion, use that handy little Back button.

Back on topic - a little something I found while searching:


The early Christians were quite intolerant. They believed that their God was the only God and that their Savior was the only savior. "Except through me you shall not see my Father," as they believed ********** had said. More than that, they also believed that ********** had commanded them to spread the faith by converting others. As a consequence, Christians were not willing to let others follow their own faiths, but condemned the beliefs of others and tried to convert them to their own belief. This was quite contrary to Roman imperial policy, which attempted to respect all other religions and even to integrate them into official state religious observances. The Christians refused to accept this attitude and so were continually flouting imperial authority. The faith was illegal, and its members often persecuted by the government.

In order to steer as clear as possible of the government, they formed inner city groups (ecclesiae) with their own internal governments under spiritual and secular overseers (episkopos > piscop > biscop > bishop), aided by the heads of households. The bishops stayed in touch with each other through letters (epistles), secret meetings (councils), and by keeping the records of the faith in secret books (bible means simply "book"). The members developed secret signs and symbols by which to recognize each other, the cross in various forms, the outline of a fish, variations on the Roman numeral three, and so forth. Christianity grew slowly, and even began to penetrate the urban middle class and some elements of the army.

As you can see from that first paragraph, Christianity was formed out of ignorance. So really, modern Christians' behavior really isn't all that surprising.

[snickel]

I try to look at this form an outsiders' point of view --one who has read the bible, but the Quran as well, the Bhagavadgita...

People take an important amount of their self-esteem from the group they feel they belong to. Thats one of the roots of patriotism, of pride in the football team of your college, of the penchant for symbols of social status.

Religion is more than an ideology -- it gives to the followers of that religion a common social identity. And to really profit from that group identity, that group must be special. Better than others. And here, alas, we have one of the roots of prejudice and discrimination. As soon as one religion states that its followers are 'the chosen' 'the saved' 'those that shall get into paradise in the afterlife' some (not all) followers of that religion will draw a justification for inhuman acts from the holy writs. Even if they were never intended to allow for that. The great monotheistic religions (yes, islam as well) preach respect for human life and your fellow-beings, no matter what their creed should be. Nevertheless, people who consider themselves Christians, Jews, Muslims have committed inhuman acts and did not (do not) see any conflict with their religion.

At the root of it is the need to feel good about yourself and to be in a group that gives you that.