Billed yet again

[Darksun]

Dispite receiving an email from Dr Rask advising that my requests to have my accounts cancelled have been actioned and an acknowledgement from EII's support, I have now been billed for a 3rd time since I first attempted to close my accounts.

What do I have to do to get this lot to carry out even the most basic of requests. I simply want my accounts cancelled, an end to the unauthorised charging against my CC and the unauthorised charges refunded.

How hard can this be?

Is there any way to contact EII that they will actually respond to? Clearly using the ticketing system and the "web page" they supposedly set up to cancel subscriptions is not working!

Darksun

[Lascivious Goat]

Not a good look for EII and incidents like this do nothing to allay the concerns of an already-nervous playerbase that EII can't run Horizons competently. Hopefully you might be able to get your CC's bank to reverse the charges.

[MadDwarf]

Whats the problem here ??

Set up an account maintenance system on one of your servers. There are hundreds of free systems out there and some real good pay to use account maintenance systems as well. Then get your security certificate app in. That takes maybe 15 mins and you get one back pretty darn fast. Interface it with payplus and have everyone redo their billing information with a new legal billing agreement with EII. Scrap the old Tulga system all together. There is no need to port anything over. The links posted on the front page obviously aren't doing anything.

This does not look good nor does it help things at all. Comeon guys get it together here.

[Tantalyr]

Whats the problem here ??

Set up an account maintenance system on one of your servers. There are hundreds of free systems out there and some real good pay to use account maintenance systems as well. Then get your security certificate app in. That takes maybe 15 mins and you get one back pretty darn fast. Interface it with payplus and have everyone redo their billing information with a new legal billing agreement with EII. Scrap the old Tulga system all together. There is no need to port anything over. The links posted on the front page obviously aren't doing anything.

This does not look good nor does it help things at all. Comeon guys get it together here.

Hmmm, if it's so easy I wonder why Tulga spent five weeks (or more) trying to fix the billing problems that occurred prior to the sale, and still hadn't gotten all the issues fixed by the time the sale was announced . . . .

[MadDwarf]

Hmmm, if it's so easy I wonder why Tulga spent five weeks (or more) trying to fix the billing problems that occurred prior to the sale, and still hadn't gotten all the issues fixed by the time the sale was announced . . . .

Million and one dollar question. We don't know the answer. But we do know its been over a month now. No serious headway has been made. I can tell you this in standard corporate sector any IT department that couldn't resolve this fast would have been fired by now. This isn't good for instilling confidence in your subscriber base.

So pray to your istarian gods to send godspeed fixes to EII and crew.

[Justa Mirage]

Going out on a limb here... but...

Tantylr... it's time to take off the horse blinders and see the bigger picture...

Love for this game should not blind one's self to the problem the new company is having with billing.

It should not have taken a whole month... even more... to erect a billing system using a secure information / data gathering structure that can be confidentally used by the game players to where it will allow:

1: new players to sign up (I personally had a friend stop playing because he could not pay)

2: players who want to leave can terminate their billing (which apparently hasn't happened)

3: people who want to re-sub after their month is up or re-activate their dormant account.

All of this should have been solved... but you state "problems of the past"

Those problems about the double billing were due to clerical errors and a few button pushers on a system that decided to overbill people.

This company doesn't even "have" a system to double bill you yet.... let alone a system that will even set you up for automatic billing... I would agree to your statement about Tulga having billing problems if EI were to have a billing system set up... and then had problems with it.

So far: 1 month and still no way for new players to again fill our world with needed economy, or mentorship from its elder players.

[Peaches]

DANU
Game Management, EI Horizons


Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6 billing conversion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pay by Touch is working vigorously to repair account number issues for anyone who cannot use the automatic update system please use the procedure laid out in the "log in screen" message.

EI has spent many hours trying to respect our players needs and provide accurate easy billing. The system is in place, unfortunately a small number of subscribers data was incorrectly ported.

[Tantalyr]

Justa, I have no blinders on at all about the billing issues--they are indeed serious and need fixing ASAP.

What I question here is the repeated statements by some folks that putting up a secure and perfect billing system takes only a matter of hours. Were that the case, why then did Tulga spend over five weeks trying to fix that billing system and still hadn't resolved those problems by the time of the sale?

And no, Justa, the double and triple billing (and charging for trial accounts) were NOT due to simple clerical errors as you state. According to Ophelea (when Tulga still owned the game), these problems supposedly arose due to the billing company's system change under some new federal regulation, and Tulga's apparent inability to reprogram their coding to adjust to the change.

In sum, yes indeedy do the current billing problem is of utmost importance for EI to fix. But given the fact that Tulga couldn't do it in five weeks (or more) when their own dev team supposedly knew their own code and their own billing system, it seems to me presumptious to demand that EI immediately fix what Tulga couldn't.

[AA0]

It did not take Tulga 5 weeks to get the billing up and running, most of the problems were taken care of within a week. The rest of the time was spent fixing the in game linking issues with consignment and concurrent play times. Account creation, maintenance, etc was all working very quickly again, the only issues were minor ones.


The immediate billing for trial accounts was a PBT internal error, we have heard. The double/triple billing never happened under TG as per the offical word from TG.

Amazing how history changes.. I remember a saying about it.

[Justa Mirage]

do you believe everything you are told

I play Lemmings too

[Hiko]

After quitting a few weeks ago I was recently billed too after following the steps on the EII website. Just going to dispute the charge - annoying as heck though.

[Tantalyr]

It did not take Tulga 5 weeks to get the billing up and running, most of the problems were taken care of within a week. The rest of the time was spent fixing the in game linking issues with consignment and concurrent play times. Account creation, maintenance, etc was all working very quickly again, the only issues were minor ones.


The immediate billing for trial accounts was a PBT internal error, we have heard. The double/triple billing never happened under TG as per the offical word from TG.

Amazing how history changes.. I remember a saying about it.

Yes indeed, AAO, let's do look at the verifiable history here from the archives of Horizons News.

First, note the date of Ophelea's initial post regarding the billing problems--June 16, 2006. Further note that she states that these billing issues have been going on for the past week--that is, since June 9, 2006. Let's see, the sale was announced on July 21, 2006, which is a span of six weeks.

Next, take a look at Ophelea's follow-up post on July 3, 2006, just three weeks before the sale announcement. She states there that among the problems Tulga hadn't been able to fix yet were: (1) the inability of some folks being able to cancel their accounts, (2) plot reclamation notices popping up even though no plot reclamations were in the works, and (3) the inability of some folks to change their account information. Sound familiar?

As for the billing for trial accounts, all you have to do is take a look on these very boards at the numerous posts from folks new to the game complaining that they were immediately charged once they started their trial accounts.

And as for Tulga's multiple billings, I cannot find any official post by Ophelea addressing this problem, but I have a friend in RL who played Horizons until the first of July when Tulga triple billed him for his one account and failed to respond to any communications about it from him. And I heard several folks in game complaining of double and triple billing. I believe you'll also find posts to that effect in the VN archives.

[MadDwarf]

well you could be right.

The difference however is Tulga was quick about fixing overbilling issues. I believe EII has to date yet to issue any refunds or to successfully stop any billing. I guess there in lays the real issue. Tulga took steps to fix the problems and EII has done nothing.

edit: Well I guess not. But I could have sworn I saw a post by Ophelea that they were manually issuing refunds and fixing issues as soon as it came to their attention.

[Tantalyr]

Actually MadDwarf, EI refunded my PayPal payment one week after I made it. I know of several others who had their PayPal payments refunded rather quickly as well.

I don't know about other folks who didn't use PayPal, though.

[Drevar]

Same problem here. Sent a cancellation request to the appropriate "support" email as directed by EI on the 17th. Got a cancellation confirmation from Rask (the freaking company president!) on the 22nd. Was charged anyway on the 27th.

Tant, here is the difference between Tulga and EI: Tulga had my permission to charge my card, EI did not. They should not even have had the information required to charge my card.

Reyem busted his butt to get things fixed as fast as possible and Ophelea worked over time on the various boards to help people and direct them to the proper channels to get things fixed. They got involved personally and actually solved problems. EI has done nothing but embarrass themselves in dealing with any and all aspects of this situation.

When the President of a company tells you that your account was successfully canceled, it sure as heck better actually be cancelled. The failure here just makes EI as a company and Rask on a personal level look like a total unprofessional joke.

Drev

[Chioxin]

I recieved my paypal refund the day after they announced it was to be so.

Also, while tulga was in control back in January... I had to ticket and request that my accounts be cancled as I couldn't do it via normal web site controls.

[Lost Soul]

Darksun:

The credit card companies want your business badly. Use the toll free number on your credit card statment. Explain what is going on and have them remove the charge and block any further charges. They will cheerfully do this. Been there, done that, with a different game.

[AA0]

The vast majority of the issues were taken care of immediately, no matter which way you try and spin it by min and maxing numbers in your favour. The people that couldn't cancel were in the vast minority of players. The consigner and plot limits was in a fix on blight, which takes 1-2 months to go live. We already know nobody was affected by that, as they took the measures for plot repos to not occur.

Ophelea kept a running tab of what was and wasn't broken on the log in page for that time, and there was very little crucial broken after a week or two. Any problems that existed were answered in tickets or on forums, and I know people who haven't received replies for.. well 5 weeks now.

[Tzael]

Tantalyr, Tulga are history. Drop it. Stop dredging up the old, and face up to the new. You cannot go on comparing the old to the new when the old was a peach and the new is a melon.

[Chioxin]

Tantalyr, Tulga are history. Drop it. Stop dredging up the old, and face up to the new. You cannot go on comparing the old to the new when the old was a peach and the new is a melon.

You can't tell that to just him then. You have to tell everyone that.