Military Appreciation Program discontinued?

[Kulamata]

The player community was once known for the openness and generosity of spirit; is much of the community at long last forsaking that?

[Ishar Xhaan]

You seem not to understand what Hagen wanted to say , it is not a problem of jealousy for someone playing without paying, as far as I heard or read the U.S. Military that are overseas fighting are volunteers, no one went to their home grabbed them and told em to shoot til they were dead. It was a personal choice.
Being a Military doesn't make anyone better, more courageous or whatever over any civilian , I dont dismiss their work but to me it is not more worthy than an electrician a computer developper or the guy gathering garbages.
I don't know how things are run in the US army, but where i live the ones in missions get double pay, lots of vacation compared to the ones that stay home, and faster carreer advancement, which is in my opinion the right way to thank them. Our country and us thank them and give them what they deserve for service, private business's job is not to give them advantages it is to make money.
We all know this game doesn't make much money ( if it makes any that is ) and money is what counts to save the game. And seriously I dont think your guys overseas have much time to play, that if they can play at all.
The question is not so manichean ( not sure that term exists in english it would mean ALL black or ALL white ) it is very easy to accuse people of jealousy and envy, but that was not the point here.

[Sunuke]

It's a free choise to go into the militairy and i think a game company shouldn't be about this it should be making more then enough money to make the game run and when they have everything sorted then they can see where they can give something away.

I do calamity control for the Dutch Railways and I work 24/7 in shifts, I'm away alot from my family and from my girlfriend because I'm traveling from and to work and ofcourse working the strange hours.

I would like to get a free account too you know, I'm making sure mechanics are being send out so the tracks keep safe to be used so in a way I'm keeping my country safe too.

Maybe we should give the families from commercial sailor's a free account too as they are away from their families doing a dangerous job, sailing the world oceans.

My personal opinion is that this whole militairy program is just favoritisme and saying things like that you just have to sign up is just the same as this program. Totally wrong!!!

This company should be making money not give it away!!!

How many of these accounts are inactive while having plots?

[Ankua Daru]

Let me give some info on the military overseas. Almost all soldiers have had their service extended in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some have been in country over 18 months. Alot of the reserves and national guard are being called in if they have military police training or are a law enforcement in the private sector. Yes, they did enlist but not to go serve for a year come home only to be told they are going back in 3 to 6 months. Also with security clearances being revoked due to finacial hardship means more time out of country for these guys and gals with certain skill sets. If this program helps a few it is well worth it most of these volunteers are truly paying for it with the loss of homes and relationships. Its easy to say the joined up but most did not know that in the last 4 years they would be gone for over 3 of those years in a country far far away. They are reservists and national guard who would normally be stationed in the US.

[Sunuke]

Let me give some info on the military overseas. Almost all soldiers have had their service extended in Iraq and Afghanistan. Some have been in country over 18 months. Alot of the reserves and national guard are being called in if they have military police training or are a law enforcement in the private sector. Yes, they did enlist but not to go serve for a year come home only to be told they are going back in 3 to 6 months. Also with security clearances being revoked due to finacial hardship means more time out of country for these guys and gals with certain skill sets. If this program helps a few it is well worth it most of these volunteers are truly paying for it with the loss of homes and relationships. Its easy to say the joined up but most did not know that in the last 4 years they would be gone for over 3 of those years in a country far far away. They are reservists and national guard who would normally be stationed in the US.

Sorry but when you join the army whois in a state of war shouldn't you then expect to get send out too then. Bush has been in office for over those 4 years and we all know about his war on terror. I think these families would be helped more with other things.
Like having their loved ones return home healthy and having their loved ones make more money.

I wish the best for all whois out fighting for their country, I just don't think it has anything to do with a computer game nor should a game company wanna get involved with such politics if you ask me

[Dragoniade]

I dunno who's most courageous...
Someone joining the militarry for free education and falling under a lost bullet for a lost cause that nobody support...
Or a clerk working on a store in a poor districk and falling under a bullet from a theif.

Being a soldier is a job, just like any other. It doesn't make someone better, more courageous, or anything.

You're a firefighter, you risk being killed in a fire, doing your job.
You're a surgeon, you risk dying from AID by operating someone who hasn't declared his sickess.
You're a clerk, you risk being shoot by the next theif that enter the store.
You're a student, you risk being shot by the next gun oh that got a gun and went berserk.
You're a soldier, you risk being blown up or shot by the guy whose country got invaded by you.

All get their risk everyday. I don't see everyone of them getting an 'appreciation program'. Especially when the so called program only target the puppets of a greedy and lying government, both US or Canadian (so not to make jealous).

So if EI decide to get rid of that program, no big deal from me. It's more money saved for the game. And how come those 'military' people are able to play the game while being stationed in Irak or anywhere else? Aren't they supposed to defend the people, not playing game?

Seriously...

[Peaches]

They need to be able to have contact with their families, and what better way than through a game. They need time off, I am sure they all don't battle 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They have time off and if they have an account that is designated as military, then so be it. Its better than nothing at this point.

[Gremblthrg]

I have to wonder...

How many of the detractors of the Military Appreciation Program ever served in the armed forces? Most of the people in the US military have been in since before September 2001 and the conflicts that arose from that, myself included. They have often 10 or more years in, aiming for 20+ for retirement, if they didn't reenlist they'd have to get another job and start from zero.

Reserves have their own complications, too; many reservists who are deployed make less money than they did when back home at a civilian job with alot less risk, where they can go home to their families at night. I'm in a reserve unit now (after having done four years active duty), one of my coworkers had to sell his house after having been deployed for a year.

Even those who were in the military and didn't reenlist so as to not be sent can be called up; the US can activate and deploy people who left the military years prior, even retired personnel. Sunuke, you know this happened to the husband of one of our guildies; left the service over 10 years ago, and has since been activated and has even been wounded in combat. To say that he joined the military when in a state of war is certainly not true.

If it were peacetime situations, I would agree that this program is unfair, but as is now it's a nice extra way to keep in touch with and bond with family while away; deployment is really hard on families. Granted, not everyone who is deployed would have access to the internet, but many do.

The free accounts don't bring in any money for the owners of HZ, but most of the people with a free account wouldn't have gotten an additional one otherwise; it's not like they were predetermined to get another account, with a question of whether they pay for it or not. Without this program, there would simply be less accounts, less people in an already small population game.

I didn't apply for a free account via the military appreciation program, as my existing account with one plot is enough for me, but were I to be deployed again (the previous deployment being before I played HZ or got married) it would be really nice to have, as a means of relaxing and spending time with my wife when off shift. Is that such a horrible thing to begrudge someone?

- Gremblthrg

[snickel]

Please allow for the possibility that a difference of opinion in this matter need neither be due to a wish to belittle the soldiers' sacrifices nor to jealousy.

There is another reason for uneasiness about this programm, namely:

the fact that soldiers are singled out for special appreciation has a distinct patriotic feeling, and there are lots of countries in the world where patriotism is not seen as unequivocally good -- there is a real cultural difference in value here. And with cultural differences in value there can be no 'right' or 'wrong' just a feeling of 'this does not feel right with me'.

[Arzel Rashemi]

Why have I noticed its mostly the Europeans complaining about the military programme. And mostly people from countries where the military service is required for six months or longer at that country's legal age. If you're European, just shut up and accept it.

I'm British, I'm in the military, I could have gotten it with proof of service under TG, but I didn't. Frankly I think its a good thing for the US soldiers and one of the few perks they have that should be brought back, especially with all the negativity and complaints that are comming from people who live in countries that constantly bash and complain about the US military, the US politics, and everything US. And, looking at who's doing the complaining about it on here, it just adds strength to that particular point.

[Sunuke]

Yes, I'm Dutch and no I have a right to speak out just as anybody else do. I haven't done any of the bashing of the politics or of the militairy personel.

I have stated my opinion as I think this program is bad for this game.

The Dutch goverment takes good care of the militairy being send out to both Afghanistan and Iraq and when they come back they have made alot of money even at the lowest ranks because of all the bonusses and such.

In the Netherlands there is no militairy service anymore, besides something like that is only in a country like Isreal equal where both men and women are drafted.

There is absolutly no reason to speak out in such tongue Arzel, you like this program and I don't and I can tell you something else.

Lets say you have 1000 people signed up for this program, that would be $12950 they would be giving away on a monthly base and $155400 on a yearly base.

This money should be used into things like customer support or game development or atleast something that would do good for the whole player community not just a little group of the community.

Just as some players on Order have been screaming out when the T6 items were appearing, this is just a form of favouritisme a game company doesn't want to or in my opinion shouldn't want to have.

It should be for the whole community as we all are paying customers.

[Arzel Rashemi]

Sunsuke, such complaints still show a jealousy of 'they have, we havn't got.' It doesn't matter how the excuses are spoken. It is a US run programme, a US business, and on US soil. Live with it. I like it because the Americans are more patriotic and supportive of thier troops than Europe. Yes, if the companies and citizens support their military to a point where it causes envy or jealousy in others, and those others want to name it favouritism, then I guess that's what it is, that's life, thats America. Even in the EU if a company chooses to spend or lose its money in such a way as to donate it towards a charitable fashion be it military, homelessness, foriegn aid, whatever, there's nothing you can do about how that business decides to spend its funds except take your business elsewhere.

[snickel]

You said it yourself, its a question of patriotism.

And as I argued earlier, patriotism is by no means a value shared by each one of us alike. Face it: While for many people patriotism is a fine thing, others see it with suspicion.
One of the uglier sides of patriotism is one you have shown yourself -- trying to put Europeans vs. US and arguing that the rejection of the military appreciation program is an instance of US-bashing.

When it comes to values cultural differences should be respected. There is no universal 'right or wrong' about this.

I myself do not endorse patriotism, but I can live with the fact that many people are patriotic. I respect that, but I demand that my opinion is respected as well.

[Arzel Rashemi]

You have some points, except one thing. I'm European so trying to place that European vs. US along me doesn't fit.

I just stated a fact snickle. If you look at who is doing all the complaining, its European players, and logically the only reason it would be such a majority like that is envy and jealousy of the 'they have, we don't have' thought. Whether this is caused by the patriotism Americans have for their own or another excuse is used it still boils down to that one underlying basis.

If you don't like it, ok. But respect is earned, not demanded.

[Ishar Xhaan]

"" Why have I noticed its mostly the Europeans complaining about the military programme. And mostly people from countries where the military service is required for six months or longer at that country's legal age. If you're European, just shut up and accept it.
""
I am impressed to see that kind of things, first there is no need to be agressive at all, no one was previously in this topic, secondly you seem to consider all posters like hippies, so sorry , no , i am not anti militaristic at all, i am not anti US at all neither, and I even think mr Bush is not as bad as many would think. But there is something you should think, I do not complain for the fact you re complaining the program stops, I don t like that and it is my fair right to say what I am thinking, and please dont talk about respectand such, as I said before it is not all white or all black, all europeans people dont think exactly the same, same goes for North americans accusing people of jealousy and envy is very strong, may i remind you they are part of the 7 capital bad acts ?
People always react badly when you take away from them something that was given to them, even if it was given in an unfair manner to the others ( did not some europeans expatried to America fought vs indians to get their territory, then fought again when their governement wanted to give back those territories ? ).
As for patriotism I have nothing against it, message supporting US military on the board's sections where they belong are no problem with me, flags or support message in official page neither, but giving away money or bandwith doesn't help any one sorry.
By the way there is no forced military to youngsters where i live, and when you sign up to the reserve you know you can be called in wartime, it s the whole point in signing in the reserve otherwise it means you signed not to help your country but to help yourself to get relations and so on or give a good image and that s totally bad and against patriotism.
Defending your country doesn't mean attacking people who think business has nothing to do with it.

[Sigi]

If you're European, just shut up and accept it.

.

Live by your own words and please shut up.

[Sunuke]

Live by your own words and please shut up.

This isn't how we should react to this either Sigi.

He has his right to his opinion even thou he only know his rude and agressive way of expressing it. Maybe charm school would be good. Some classes from Peaches might do him well.

[Deth]

Lets say you have 1000 people signed up for this program, that would be $12950 they would be giving away on a monthly base and $155400 on a yearly base.

This money should be used into things like customer support or game development or atleast something that would do good for the whole player community not just a little group of the community.

I feel i should comment on this part. As some one who spent 10 years in the Air Force I can tell you you may or may not have had those 1000 accounts, most likely not. The US military does not pay the best in the world far from it, Thier is a high rate of Welfare and Food stamps for low ranking Military families just because we do not get paid a lot. Most would not be able to pay for a secound account so that they could just chat when they could find a free web page to chat throught if that is all they really wanted to do. I feel that instead it did not take money away from the game but bring it in.

I am sure some people that may not have played joined up because they could have a free secound account that they know they could use while over there and worked the extra money they needed for the required one account into thier budget.

[Arzel Rashemi]

Ishar you take a matter of fact thing I saw, and read it agressively instead of logically. My two points were not intended as a European vs US view. Only a valid number of points that I see which should be pointed out. Whilst not repeating myself from my earlier explanations and posts, if I'm stating what I see, and if speaking plainly with valid point in mind by civil logic is taken with a knee jerk reaction as aggressive, arrogant, or rude than so be it. As you are allowed your opinon, so I am allowed to bluntly point out the white elephant in the room.

[IndyMan]

but giving away money or bandwith doesn't help any one sorry.

you are incorrect, it helps the military person to talk with his family and friends. so it DOES help someone.

many of those military accounts probably have friends and family who signed up just to be able to speak with them on occasion.

I dont see any reason that any military personnel from any country should not be able to take advantage of this.

I also dont see where anyone's point of view matters if the company wants to provide this. People can either stop playing to protest that someone is getting something they are not, or they can play the game and have fun.