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Thread: Reality and Wishful Thinking

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  1. #1

    Default Reality and Wishful Thinking

    Too many folks appear to be confusing reality with wishful thinking and speculation. Delving into the realm of reality finds some very interesting, cold, hard facts.

    PME/EI now owns Hz. Fact

    PME/EI has some manner of arrangement in place with HGI. Fact

    David Bowman is out, gone, no longer involved, BYE!! Fact

    Smeg, Amon, et. al. are gone. Fact

    PME/EI is, at the very least, keeping the game running. Fact

    PME/EI has had some problems with some accounts concerning billing. Fact

    PME/EI has not had problems with other accounts concerning billing. Fact

    PME/EI is under no obligation whatever to communicate with the player base in the Forums. Fact

    TG wasn't exactly stellar with billing issues. Fact

    TG implemented the aggro change, Group xp rules, Pawnbroker fiasco, Nadia fiasco, T6 resource fiasco. Fact

    TG gutted several mob spawns, was fully capable of typonese(crystals come to mind here), and in general did not seem to care one jot what the playerbase thought of proposed changes. They went ahead and shoved them live over repeated and heated protests. Fact

    Now let's look at wishful thinking:

    The game would be better off under the old TG crew. Well, for those that can't read, scroll up to the entry about changes made to the game ands then chalk this up to Wishful Thinking

    Bowman could have done better than PME/EI if allowed to buy the game. Hmmmm, he said recently in a chat on Order Server that he offered to put up his house. Does he have servers in his garage? How would he pay staff? Nupe, Wishful Thinking

    Will PME/EI be getting any developement done any time soon? Wishful Thinking

    So, fact vs Wishful thinking. Ya'll know the old saying...Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first. All this wishing for what no longer exists and never will again is about the same as a handful of crap, it just doesn't smell as bad. But hey!, it's a free country, if some out there are so enamored of the previous Dev Staff then, by all means, go pursue them and their latest endevours with worshipful words. They ain't here nor is it likely they ever will be again.

    On speculation...it's rampant. Why? I just have to laugh at those that say that because PME/EI says nothing speculation is all that's left. Are these folks so feebleminded that rampant baseless speculation is all they can think to do? I can easily think of at least one other venture for these folks to pursue. Go get yourselves hired on as Staff Writers for the National Enguirer. Your mindless blather will be APPRECIATED and highly praised by the readers of that fine publication. Your mindless blather here only serves to hasten to fall of this game by destroying what's left of the community.

    On community...Once upon a time Hz had the very best community to be found bar none. There wasn't even a close second. Now? It's at best fragmented and at worst utterly devastated. We have the crowd that supports PME/EI as they are well aware that current ownership is indeed the salvation Hz has. Nobody is coming to the rescue that anyone can see. It's PME/EI or nobody. Then we have the crowd that support Hz but want it back in the hands of the previous Dev Team. Wishful thinking, now where did I read something about wishful thinking? There is a dedicated crowd that are hell-bent on seeing this game shut down. They are known to most and beneath contempt. Oh, and let's not forget the fence-sitters. This crowd is just sitting around waiting for something to happen one way or the other. I hope that fence doesn't rot out from underneath them.

    So, what's the cure to this dilema? I don't know and at this point I just don't care anymore. I'm sick of the Forums and will be less and less visible here. This is my last post for a while, I don't even know if I will reply to those who reply to this post. I've also lost most of my interest in the game. That is primarily due to a sense of loss I feel toward the community. It ain't what it used to was, and was a big part of the game. A loss of that magnitude is difficult to overcome. I log in now more from force of habit than from any desire to play or visit the community. So I'd say my playing days are probably numbered as well. But, they say hope springs eternal, where there's life there's hope and all that good stuff. I have some hope for this game and it's one-time great community. While I retain that hope I'm still around from time to time. When that hope is gone, so am I.
    Kwinn
    Mortal Danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas... Erwin Rommel

    Dulce Bellum Inexpertis

    Dog: The other white meat

    Order Server

    Heavily multiclassed Human Hunter, 'overpowered' to the nth degree of beejeezusness and damned proud of it. Nerf me, go ahead make my day

  2. #2

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    Well said indeed Kwinn!

    A strong dose of reality, as opposed to hurtful and unfounded speculation, is what we all need.

    I'll stand arm-in-arm with you to start healing this once-great but now wounded community.
    Before you criticize anyone, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have his shoes.

  3. #3

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    TG gave Unity patches, EI/PME didn't . Fact

    TG and EI/PME keep the silence about Unity and what happens with the server. Fact

    The players of Unity still don't even know if the server will be tranfered or when the plug will be pulled. Fact

    We still don't know if Unity is owned by Gn or now by EI/PME. Fact

    Unity is still isolated from the NA Community and not involved in any events. Fact

    Unity still suffers that it has been abadonned so long. Unity looses players by day. Fact

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  4. #4
    Member Joaqim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takora Drakan
    TG gave Unity patches, EI/PME didn't . Fact
    Lol that's a good joke,
    it was TG who stopped giving patches to Unity/GN. fact

    That was after TG/GN anounced stuff about transatlantic play. fact

    As they had the data of the Unitarians, we all received and invite from TG to leave Unity and start over again on US server. fact

    Online games with higher amount of paying players are selling better. fact


    And I have to repeat: Unity need some words about it's future, or dates or whatever. FACT!

    Joaqim - Multiclassed God on Unity
    "I'm Immortal, I'm Glorious, I'm Supreme, I'm My Saviour"

    Beleenda - Goddess of Melee
    "Kill 'em all, let God sort them out"

  5. #5

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    I'm sick today and wanna throw up. Fact

  6. #6

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    I can really understand you, Kwinn, and hope that you are strong enough, to keep yourself out of the forums... I wasn't ... I wanted to leave a few times, but always came back here...

    Furthermore I really hope that you will feel a stronger sense of community in game... for me that is much better than in this forums, and I don't want to lose it...
    I wanna be ancient. Why is there no ARoP for Saris?

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joaqim
    Lol that's a good joke,
    it was TG who stopped giving patches to Unity/GN. fact
    After GN stopped paying as the heard about selling rumors
    Quote Originally Posted by Joaqim
    As they had the data of the Unitarians, we all received and invite from TG to leave Unity and start over again on US server. fact
    Not all, only those who were send with the DB part in the bginning of the buildup for transatlantic accounts

  8. #8
    Member Joaqim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaldor Itieles
    After GN stopped paying as the heard about selling rumors
    That's rumor as well, not fact.

    Not all, only those who were send with the DB part in the bginning of the buildup for transatlantic accounts
    Well all active acounts from back when they started with that, sry for not beeing precise

    Joaqim - Multiclassed God on Unity
    "I'm Immortal, I'm Glorious, I'm Supreme, I'm My Saviour"

    Beleenda - Goddess of Melee
    "Kill 'em all, let God sort them out"

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joaqim
    Lol that's a good joke,
    it was TG who stopped giving patches to Unity/GN. fact
    Oh the thread is open again so i can post

    You should read my post more carefully, i said we got patches vom tg that is true, and i said we never got under Ei patches that is also true, so where is the joke then?

    As they had the data of the Unitarians, we all received and invite from TG to leave Unity and start over again on US server. fact
    Yeah and that invite was only for getting more players and so a better price for hz that they could sell it better. You and all others know that. Fact

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  10. #10
    Member Joaqim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takora Drakan
    You should read my post more carefully, i said we got patches vom tg that is true, and i said we never got under Ei patches that is also true, so where is the joke then?
    1. I haven't said that you are wrong with your fact at any point
    2. The joke is that it was at the time of TG when the mess started, which was left unmentioned. And well no server was patched till the time Eii...

    Joaqim - Multiclassed God on Unity
    "I'm Immortal, I'm Glorious, I'm Supreme, I'm My Saviour"

    Beleenda - Goddess of Melee
    "Kill 'em all, let God sort them out"

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joaqim
    L

    And I have to repeat: Unity need some words about it's future, or dates or whatever. FACT!
    Read her Luca gave some information in my tread on gnonlines forum

    http://forum.gnonline.net/showthread.php?t=84071

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelclaw
    Save for one, what you state as fact is either your interpretation or assumption. Subjective statements are not fact. Declaring something a "problem" or a "fiasco", or having something "seem" a certain way are all examples of subjective statements -- not facts.

    Go ahead and share your feelings, but please don't call them facts.

    As well, I call you out to cite your sources regarding the ownership of Hz and David's (lack of) involvement.
    I don't see the vast majority of the statements made in Kwinn's original post as "subjective" at all. They are demonstrably provable and, hence, objective.

    Let's take, as an example, the billing "issues." Surely you cannot reasonably object to describing mistaken multiple billings and inability to cancel accounts as "problems." And the fact that these billing issues/problems cropped up at least six weeks prior to the sale to EI, and were not fixed prior to the sale, is proven by simply reviewing Ophelea's posts on these issues/problems in June and July of this year as reflected here.

    As to Bowman's association with EI/PME, no--I have not seen any direct statement by either party that Bowman no longer has any involvement with either the present owners or the development of Horizons.

    That said, I would note that PME's press announcement, which specifies the directors of the company, makes no mention at all of Bowman. I would note, too, the fact that upon the original sale DANU (Mr. Andercheck) stated in IRC that Bowman was no longer associated with development of the game. Despite whatever might be the state of Bowman's reputation in the MMO industry, I should think it obvious that had PME brought Bowman back on board the press announcement would have stated so.

    Moreover, I was online the evening last week when Bowman came online, and went into the MarketPlace channel. The tenor of his comments, as Kwinn aptly noted, can be summarized as "poor poor pitiful me." He bemoaned his "loss" of the game, and excoriated EI/PME's handling of Horizons since the purchase. And I distinctly remember him decrying the fact that he had been made the "scapegoat" by so many for the state of the game. Plainly, these are not the kinds of things that a current owner/investor/employee of PME would state to the players in game.

    As for the other observations made by Kwinn which you quoted, do you actually disagree that the Tulga dev team "gutted" several mob spawns? If so, I would suggest that you log in and try hunting mithril golems, or any Tier III gem golems. I should think that characterizing the spawns as "gutted" is, if anything, charitable.

    Tulga's typos--particularly with respect to the crystals they rushed to the live servers--are an established fact. One need merely read the descriptions of, say, ten different crystals and you'll find typos in at least three of them. And the fact that the crystals were rushed out is amply demonstrated by my favorite crystal of all--the jewelry crystal of Tooth & Claw. Umm, giving Tulga the benefit of the doubt here, I suppose it's possible that Tulga just plain forgot that dragons cannot wear jewelry.

    Finally, Tulga's disdain for its players' opinions regarding game changes (announced or otherwise) is amply demonstrated by the threads on changes in the Discussion forums from the spring and summer of this year. One example was Tulga's sudden decision to revamp (actually I should say whack with the nerf bat) Tier VI resources. When folks like me posted our dismay at implementing just a few radiant wisps, Tulga responded by drastically reducing the amount of Tier VI travertine and thornwood that had been in game for over a year. And then told us that there hadn't been any changes . . . . (Indeed, one of the legendary players on Order--Archebold--cancelled his accounts as a direct result of Tulga's apparently utter contempt for the desires of its player base).

    Subjective? Nah. Just the facts, ma'am.
    Before you criticize anyone, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have his shoes.

  13. #13
    Member Joaqim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mairynn Nalnair
    Read her Luca gave some information in my tread on gnonlines forum

    http://forum.gnonline.net/showthread.php?t=84071
    Yes I know as he was answering on my post^^
    Well, but this was after I made my posting here. fact

    Joaqim - Multiclassed God on Unity
    "I'm Immortal, I'm Glorious, I'm Supreme, I'm My Saviour"

    Beleenda - Goddess of Melee
    "Kill 'em all, let God sort them out"

  14. #14

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    *David Bowman is out, gone, no longer involved, BYE!! Fact


    Do we know for certain who all the parties are in this new company ? As I recall they dont have to list them in NV, soooooooo I dont think we can call this one fact .. can we ?


    Food is food, just give us something to chew on that removes DP's

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyMan
    *David Bowman is out, gone, no longer involved, BYE!! Fact


    Do we know for certain who all the parties are in this new company ? As I recall they dont have to list them in NV, soooooooo I dont think we can call this one fact .. can we ?
    yeah, we most certainly can.
    Kwinn
    Mortal Danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas... Erwin Rommel

    Dulce Bellum Inexpertis

    Dog: The other white meat

    Order Server

    Heavily multiclassed Human Hunter, 'overpowered' to the nth degree of beejeezusness and damned proud of it. Nerf me, go ahead make my day

  16. #16

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    It seems I broke the rules by making remarks about billing. For this I apologize and ask the Moderators to delete those remarks from my post. Thanks
    Kwinn
    Mortal Danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas... Erwin Rommel

    Dulce Bellum Inexpertis

    Dog: The other white meat

    Order Server

    Heavily multiclassed Human Hunter, 'overpowered' to the nth degree of beejeezusness and damned proud of it. Nerf me, go ahead make my day

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwinn
    yeah, we most certainly can.
    Can you list for me all parties envolved at this time please ?


    Food is food, just give us something to chew on that removes DP's

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantalyr
    Well said indeed Kwinn!

    A strong dose of reality, as opposed to hurtful and unfounded speculation, is what we all need.

    I'll stand arm-in-arm with you to start healing this once-great but now wounded community.
    Well said. Horizons has elements that make it worth saving. To me, the best crafting, the best UI and the best people. Those who don't like it, they need to go elsewhere and stop whining, pleeeeeze, stop whining.

  19. #19

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    Somehow, I don't think spewing hatred and venomous personal attacks at everyone who has a different opinion than you do is going to do anything to heal the community.
    Klaus Wulfenbach
    Mithril Council, Chaos
    "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever."


    "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

  20. #20

    Default Please

    Adhere to please observe the forum code of conduct, no personal attacks, no insults, no bashing, and more, if you need to , reread the board guidelines again.

    Thank you

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