The League of Historians begins...

[snickel]

is to give this program a chance, without that chance, it will be doomed for failure. I, for one, am giving the time and the chances needed, it will be a learning experience for all, and something new for the players. Course, you also have the ability to say you don't want to participate just as much as saying you do want to participate. Its your choice, ultimately.

I think before you give a thing a chance you have to know what you are probably in for. If you have misgivings and nothing is done to alleviate them then the proper thing is to NOT give it a chance.

This was meant as a general comment on the attitude of 'just give it a chance'. If one sees a danger that can be prevented then it is a necessity to raise a warning and to help to protect a thing of value. Thats what steelclaw and myself have done -- we raised a warning.

I shall give this program a chance if the rewards are not tangible (if they solely consist of emblems or other fluff). If, on the other hand, there are rewards that have an impact on crafting or adventuring, then I shall boycott that program.

As of now, I do not know what I shall do for the information about the nature of the rewards is still lacking.

[Garfonso]

I think before you give a thing a chance you have to know what you are probably in for.

I think you should know what you are talking about, before you doom it...

I can't really see those dark scenarios Steelclaw & you painted here from the few words I could read from Embrys about this League of Historians... basically I know nearly nothing about it... and the few words that were told here... they are so vague, they can mean just about anything...

So, let's wait and see, and judge after we have the full picture, not?

[snickel]

I think you should know what you are talking about, before you doom it...

(...)

So, let's wait and see, and judge after we have the full picture, not?

I just hope we are allowed to see the full picture BEFORE it is made part of the game. And please read steelclaws' and my postings again when you think we 'doom' this new idea. This could work in 2 ways -- one would be nice and we approve of that and are willing to give it a chance, the other would be a bad thing. We see both possibilities and want to make sure that the pendulum does not swing to negative side.

[awdz]

well, one way to see a more full picture is to get involved in the planning stages... have you submitted someone from your guild to be in the league? a good voice on the team can help avoid the negative directions :-)

[Foxfire]

Stagnation does not necessitate brash action.

We'll have to disgree on that one. Life is growth or death. Brash action is the appropriate necessary response to stagnation.

I see earmarks of Analysis Paralysis in this thread (and many others), resulting in attempts to overconstrain the development effort. Let it play out, put your 2 cents in along the way.

[Steelclaw]

We'll have to disgree on that one. Life is growth or death. Brash action is the appropriate necessary response to stagnation.

Eh. I'll argue the point that players will stick around and wait for something good as long as they believe it is coming... But that is for another thread! :P

As far as this one is concerned, I have spelled out my concerns and offered some alternatives. I have nothing else to say about the rewards for the League untill more is said by EI/PME.

I'm happy to discuss this stuff in another thread though.

[Valados]

There is but one question that one must ask. Reassurance or supprise after all the past months mishap?

I know they want it to be a supprise, but with all the confusion I would like a solid something to go by to start with. Give me something to spark an intrest to keep playing, to tell me everything is ok first. Give me something to ease the mind, per say. There are some of us that can rise above the rest when it comes to a direct challenge..and that always causes trouble, trust me. Just tell me that I wont be fighting my friends over petty items, tell me that I wont have to compete and lose sleep over it (Some do, its amusing really). Bottom line, are we fighting the aegis or ourselves? At 'least' give us that.

Perhaps they have forgotten or overlooked this, one can only speculate..
What say you on this matter?

[snickel]

well, one way to see a more full picture is to get involved in the planning stages... have you submitted someone from your guild to be in the league? a good voice on the team can help avoid the negative directions :-)

Ahh -- so if someone is submitted from a guild than that person will be involved in the planning stages? And can probably prevent mishaps? A new and interesting thought....

Hopefully there is a way that player ideas and warnings CAN influence this thing before it is implemented. If the questions asked in this thread do not result in a clarification, then maybe the applicants for the office of Historian might have a chance...

[LOVWYRM]

*has a nervous breakdown*

BUT FIRST OF ALL... AT LEAST.... gimmi a shard where I can play.....

(upps- wrong thread, sry^^)

*grabs Garf to dry her tears with his fur^^*

[Icabald Percival dragon]

From the currently unoccupied editor of the Shard Herald of Order . . . I have my concerns that this could become something like Guild Wars and that would not be a good thing. BUT, if we can work with the Powers That Be and help this to become a community BUILDER, then I am for giving it a try. I, for one, will submit my application and do my part for Life, Community, and the Pursuit of Relaxation in Istaria. My Pollyanna attitude may have died in late July . . . but I will do my part to help keep Istaria alive and well because the mental health of many of us ride upon its survival.

LONG LIVE ISTARIA!

[Tantalyr]

Embryss, the bottom line here is simply this: I (and many others it would appear) desire something that pulls the community together, not something which would artificially split it asunder with guild vs. guild competition.

In the "old days," whenever some world event object--like the Rainbow Bridge, the Outposts and the like--needed built no one (at least on Order) ever considered guild affiliation. At any given time you'd find 10 different folks from 10 different guilds pitching in hour after hour to get the thing built. Not for the benefit of a particular guild, but for the benefit of the entire community.

You'll see that attitude even today, albeit on a much smaller scale. If someone from Guild X has a plot in, say, Wolf's Paw right next to Mithril Canyon and has planned an Expert Smith Shop on it, well on Order you'll see five or six different folks from five or six different guilds working on that shop. Because it will benefit everyone. Not just the plot owner or his guild.

It's that fundamental notion of everyone working toward a common goal that makes our little community rather unique in the MMORPG universe. Take that away from us, and you take away the cornerstone of this community.

So here's an alternative suggestion for you, Embryss. Create some big-arsed world object that needs construction--another outpost, a slew of expert shops, another community lair with all the shops, a castle with NPC guards even. Guard that puppy with all sorts of mobs.

The biggest reward for getting it built will be that the shops, the castle, or whatever will somehow benefit the entire community (depending on what is built). Throw in individual rewards as well. It's my understanding (perhaps incorrect as I don't know nothin' 'bout birthin' no coding) that PME can track contributions to buildings and/or kills through the internal database logs. So give contributors to the construction title emblems--the more contributed, the "higher" the title. Like "Artisan of Castle Grimward," "Castle Grimward Construction Crew," "Foreman of Castle Grimward," and/or "Master Artisan of Castle Grimward."

Keep track of the mob kills made by the adventurers guarding the builders, and give them appropriate title emblems based on the number of kills (group or solo, makes no difference in the count). Titles like "Defender of Castle Grimward," "Castle Grimward Guardian," and/or "Hero of Castle Grimward."

Do something like that, and I'll guarantee you that castle, those expert shops, will get built in less than half the time you forecast. And you'll have a LOT of very happy players running around sporting their new titles . . . .

[Aria]

*points up to Tant's post* I like this idea.

[Royal]

A special glowing tool with a nice shader other then all the others will do :-)

[Kwinn]

*points up at Aria pointing at Tantalyr's post* me too

[Garfonso]

I like that idea, too... just don't forget all that gatherers..

I loved to help constructing the brigde over to balit's island... Although, I was rather small and couldn't construct any units, my sandstone bricks were really apreciated...

That was a hell of a good expirience, being an active part of the community, even as small miner....

[LaughingOtter]

I agree with Tantalyr. Well said!

Setting the Gifted against one another and rewarding the few is contrary to the essence of the game - something Danu promised would not happen. A competition that does not change the essence of the game, with nothing but fluff as a reward, would be great and welcomed, I think, by most of the players; why not pursue that instead?

[LOVWYRM]

just excellent, Tantalyr!!

[Sylvye]

Points at Kwinn pointing at Aria pointing at Tant's post... count me in

Sylvye

[C`gan]

I wholeheartedly agree with Tantalyr. Having been team lead for WorldProjects on Order, it was a great joy to see how little guild affiliation meant. The goal was simple: BUILD. In other events, like the outpost, we had two goals: BUILD and GUARD. These kind of things strengthened us immeasurably. Please bear this in mind.

[Frith-Rae]

Amen guys!! QFT and all that

And a very highly responsible, respected, and I believe well-liked, objective, lovely dragon has been nominated by me to represent KCE in whatever this becomes. (and no, its not me....)

So awaiting to hear how it goes from there....

And hope this isn't Savage Eden's version....