The League of Historians begins...

[Garfonso]

It's not nice to confuse cats

[Alpion]

More information on rewards and perks please. If this is mainly geared for guilds, leaving the individuals behind, how will guild rewards work? Will there be a mega-item that all in the guild will receive? Will just one item be awarded per guild? Or are there other terms of rewards? Will historians be given inside information that will allow guilds to get started/completed sooner than us individuals not associated with the League? Give us more specific information please, because as a solo/duo player, this whole thing seems very unfair at the moment. And with such a small playerbase right now, I don't think it's wise to alienate those that choose to not be in guilds. This isn't Everquest, you know.

[Justa Mirage]

Generally speaking...

What are EII's safeguards to keep 1 person / guild with multiple accounts from screwing the rest of the shard's guilds from the "unmentioned rewards" you get for being a historian?

No one will forget the "Darkstaff" incident you know.

[snickel]

Generally speaking...

What are EII's safeguards to keep 1 person / guild with multiple accounts from screwing the rest of the shard's guilds from the "unmentioned rewards" you get for being a historian?

No one will forget the "Darkstaff" incident you know.

Was my first concern as well when I heard of the plans.

I think safeguards are of major importance -- not only to prevent exploitation, but also to prevent wrong accusations.

This undertaking, though it has the potential to create interesting gameplay, also has the potential to create rifts within a guild, when guild members become convinced that the historian of the guild is not absolutely just in granting the guild members equal chances to earn these rewards.

[C`gan]

This undertaking, though it has the potential to create interesting gameplay, also has the potential to create rifts within a guild, when guild members become convinced that the historian of the guild is not absolutely just in granting the guild members equal chances to earn these rewards.

I think that will be weighed in the checks and balances of the League itself. What I think I've read (or inferred) is that they will be a sourcing house of new ideas for quests, monsters, loot, events, etc. Those ideas will go into production. So, it won't be up to any particular historian as to who can or can't cooperate in the finally produced quests, events, etc.

[Ming]

What I think I've read (or inferred) is that they will be a sourcing house of new ideas for quests, monsters, loot, events, etc. Those ideas will go into production. So, it won't be up to any particular historian as to who can or can't cooperate in the finally produced quests, events, etc.

At first that is how I interpreted the description but now I'm not sure. Still waiting for a "for instance".

[awdz]

Given that embrys said

League members will not be in the role of passive lore creators.

The League will be a more hands on, gameplay impacting occurence. We plan on having the representatives relay information to their respective guilds, and then offer goals to the various guilds and individuals. Goals will be achieved through quests, heroic actions and efforts, and other methods. While it will require alot of effort, I think the end result will be a more "real" world, with actions and events that have long lasting results and consequences.

i kind of took it that the historians would be both event information channels both to ei from guilds and from ei to guilds, and would be sort of like mini-worldmasters for some events. i suspect what the results of a guild quest would be would in part depend on what the guild chooses to do in going after it, and the historians can relay info to ei about the progress and further instructions (suggestions) to the guild so that next portions can happen.

i kind of think the historians would also relay quest suggestions to ei from fellow guild members, and requests from guilds for specific events (like the fall festival, etc).

i could be completely off though :-/ hopefully we'll find out a bit more soon :-)

[Pryde]

Anything that pits guild against guild won't be good for the game. The best events we've had have involved a large portion of the shard working together for a cause. We all have a common enemy so stick with that and make it dynamic.

Forcing people to join guilds or be left out of events because they aren't guilded is bad for the population! I don't want to be part of a guild and if I miss out on events because of it I certainly won't feel like I belong here. It only encourages people to look for a new home.

Please no more quests like Valkor. That has caused enough strife with the camping. Stick to things that bring the shard together not apart - the community aspect has always been the strong point of Horizons.

[Valados]

Meaning, plainly, that there will be winners and losers

So in other words, competing for rewards instead of working together against the aegis? Kinda like indirect PvP? Smells like WoW.

Do correct me if im wrong, but till accounts are fixed and I want to compete I will go play another game. Thought we (The people) fought the aegis.. oh well.

[Royal]

will have, going to, will be, we will do, we will 'also' ...........will you?

[snickel]

The more I think about it, the more sceptical I get.

Though I like the idea to give guilds incentives to develop events that change and improve storylines I am strongly against these incentives being tangible rewards.

Let the reward be fame, but not items! At the most, fluff items.

Otherwise what was planned as an incentive to creativity and involvement could well degrade into pitting guild against guild. And thats Bad with a capital B.

If you really had the possibility in mind that there could be losers due to the activity of this league, please, Embrys and those people who came up with that idea, reconsider!!!

That idea is not in the spirit of Istaria, it goes against the grain of this game.

[Steelclaw]

...

Let the reward be fame, but not items! At the most, fluff items.

Otherwise what was planned as an incentive to creativity and involvement could well degrade into pitting guild against guild. And thats Bad with a capital B.

I'll agree with that. There's a certain lack of player-vs-player competition in Horizons, and that is part of it's appeal. With no [forced] competition, players are open to make friends across guild boundaries, strengthen their bonds in the community, and ultimately, stay and play.

Once you introduce competition between guilds or within guilds, the dynamics change. A player is now forced to weigh helping someone vs getting the reward. If the reward is substantial, guess what the decision is? It is not good for a game which relies on the closeness of its player base for survival.

Titles, emblems, masks, anything that isn't balance-changing is fine. If it's an item that affects gameplay mechanics (like bigger backpack, stat boosting item, more powerful weapon, XP reward, plot structure or coin), it needs to be available to everyone willing to put the effort into obtaining one, not just a lucky few -- otherwise the above situation is created, and that is not desirable, nor good for the long term survival of Horizons.

To those who say it wouldn't happen, look at all the noise over a few boss mobs, camped by a few people -- this is an example of the above situation, but it is very limited in scope and scale.

To those trying to come up with ideas, listen to the players. Right now, they know more about playing Horizons than you do. They know what it is like to play, and they know how the in-game community works. Don't try to change the fundamendal mechanics holding this game together.

On the other hand, not every player's ideas are good either. There are some who only want a change for their benefit and present it under the guise of being an improvement for the community or economy. (This does not mean that any idea to improve the two is automatically for personal gain.) There are others who do not consider how a change affects other players, play styles, classes or races. Be aware that it happens. Use the players to gather a more complete perspective of the issues and consequences surrounding an idea and weigh those on your own. Do not simply sit back, take a vote, and let them to make the decision.

That being said, I don't know what all is planned. I just hope it doesn't result in killing the closeness and community in-game.

[snickel]

(...)
To those trying to come up with ideas, listen to the players. Right now, they know more about playing Horizons than you do. They know what it is like to play, and they know how the in-game community works. Don't try to change the fundamendal mechanics holding this game together.

On the other hand, not every player's ideas are good either. There are some who only want a change for their benefit and present it under the guise of being an improvement for the community or economy. (This does not mean that any idea to improve the two is automatically for personal gain.) There are others who do not consider how a change affects other players, play styles, classes or races. Be aware that it happens. Use the players to gather a more complete perspective of the issues and consequences surrounding an idea and weigh those on your own. Do not simply sit back, take a vote, and let them to make the decision.
(...)

*nods at Steelclaw*

Dear PMEs, and thats exactly what a specific forum board was created for:

Discussions This forum is used by the Horizons Developers to open discussion on ideas and changes within the game. Only Developers may start topics, but all are welcome to respond.

Do not simply announce changes, use player input before you make your decisions, please.

[Garfonso]

I'm still confused... and that is not good...
Confused cat's eat much more fish...


I still can't imagine how that whole thing should work...

[Foxfire]

Oh for the love of Pete, people. Let them have a go at something. Maybe we don't need to know ahead of time how it will work. Maybe we can just try and enjoy the moment and see how it develops. Maybe it can't be any worse than sitting in stagnation.

Just go for it once in a while, the best things in life are often surprizes.

[Steelclaw]

Oh for the love of Pete, people. Let them have a go at something.

In most cases I'd agree -- but not where there is great potential to tear apart what remains of the player base. Once people leave, getting them to come back isn't as easy as saying "Oops, my bad!".

Like I said, though, I don't know what they have planned. It may fit perfectly within the conditions I described above, and we'll all be happy and have a good ol' time. I state my concerns because nothing has been said to allay them and I hope that they are taken into consideration when forming and implementing their current and future plans.

If the people at EI/PME are beginning to feel frustrated with the negative reaction to their ideas, I invite and encourage them to give us a goal and a set of parameters and ask us to come up with something that can be agreed upon. Example: "Okay, we need an event of sorts that will run for about a month. It needs to involve players as low as lvl 30 adventure (any school, of course),and all levels of all craft schools. It can't involve adding new assets or new quests. We can spawn current or past mobs, and we can place buildable structures. Have at it, the sooner you agree on something, the sooner we'll get started."

Stagnation does not necessitate brash action.

[LOVWYRM]

I agree with snickel and steelclaw!!

[Peaches]

Oh for the love of Pete, people. Let them have a go at something. Maybe we don't need to know ahead of time how it will work. Maybe we can just try and enjoy the moment and see how it develops. Maybe it can't be any worse than sitting in stagnation.

Just go for it once in a while, the best things in life are often surprizes.

We shouldnt say no before it even starts.

[Tzael]

This reminds me of when Game Network's TV station was radically altered. Long before it was renamed (ie it was still called GNTV) they changed the scheduling so that instead of lots of gaming reviews and information, we were greeted with scantily clad ladies asking us to text in. Funnily enough GNTV was renamed to BabeStation a couple of years afterwards.

For all us European viewers who enjoyed that we had a true gamer TV channel, the change was not what we signed up for. We stopped tuning in. People who liked what GNTV had become started tuning in instead, apparently their numbers were not strong enough to support the new schedules.

So Horizons is now on its way towards inter-guild rivalry. I do have an opinion on that, but I don't think I need to voice it. Seems the majority of posters in this topic are already well ahead of myself when it comes to highlighting both positive and negative aspects of change.

My only real comment is that there should have been more involvement with the players before Advocates version 2 was introduced.

[Peaches]

is to give this program a chance, without that chance, it will be doomed for failure. I, for one, am giving the time and the chances needed, it will be a learning experience for all, and something new for the players. Course, you also have the ability to say you don't want to participate just as much as saying you do want to participate. Its your choice, ultimately.