Disease carrying flies

[Silverblaze]

I'd like to start off this post by saying I'm a long time player of this game. I started a week after it hit shelves and I long anticipated playing a dragon in a MMO.

That being said, dragons these days are doing themsleves an injustice. I see the mconstantly powerleveling at purple necroflies. Yes everyone has their own play style, no theres nothing wrong with that, however these players are short changing themselves badly. There is so much to experience as a dragon and many beautiful places to fly to. Why spend all day in a blighted cess pool killing lavendar colored insects all day? ( Or worse yet, watching someone else do it!) Why solo these when they in general take longer to kill than mobs your lvl or a bit higher? Ones that drop trophies I might add.

I'll tell you why. These critters are diseased. They are the cosmic easy button. Everyone just tells new players to get their levels there. That or guilds take trips their to PL folks. I dont mind it, sometimes really I dont. They are a powerful tool and asking people not to use it seems rude or ignorant. yet if you take time to look at it the way I do, you may agree or at least empathize.

As a long time dragon player who recently picked up a biped, I rather enjoy getting decent exp at a high rating. Flies let people do that. That and the t6 blights but, those are far less popular. When I march up there hoping to find a group or solo if the current school is capable and see four lvl 12 hatchlings eagerly awaiting free exp while another dragon ( usually and ancient lvl 100) kills the flies, it causes a touch of aggravation.

Here's why. The most exp they can be getting is 10% per kill. its a waste to kill something that high lvl for 10%.

Flies drop crappy hoard if compared to icy dire wolves that are abundant in at least 2 locations in istaria.

People with high ratings need to use those to get exp.

These flies promote leveling fast and getting burnt out on an MMO quicker, the last thing this game needs atm.

It demeans the road to the RoP or ARoP if a dragon had to do little to no work to get there. ( thats another topic altogether and oneI wont further discuss here).

Dragons have a single adventure school.

Dragons who have little to no experience learnign tactics and such will get owned with a "P" at important hunts, while comp hunting, or in the arena. Its dragons like these whom decide bipeds are always better. ( another discussion for another time)

Its not just low lvl dragons going here I see lvl 70s trying to solo and getting rather cantankerous if they cant solo or are forced to group.

News flash: Faster kills ian group *usually* nets more exp. Example: 30K every 5-10 mins or 8-12K 15 times per 5 min. Its easy math people....

Now, that being said.... I have empathy for people who have played a dragon before and dont wanna go through the bump and grind again that slow. However, you should know there are better places to be PL'd and better ways to manage that amount of time without taking up one of four places the high rating folks use to level.

Its not just dragons doing this, bipeds are guilty of it too, but at least bipeds have several calsses ( schools ) to join. Dragons have *drumroll* ((( 1 )))

So do remember once you get too 100 adv. as a dragon other than hoard... and killing for rare items...you have little else to do.


This all sounds so very selfish I'm sure. Perhaps I'm way off base and none of this is true. I may be wrong in all manners. Then again, I don't think so and I posted this here to get some feedback.

That covers this rant.

Good gaming to you all.

[Steelclaw]

Hm... This is definitely sounds like flamebait. I'm pretty sure that you didn't intend it to come out that way, but, for the sake of pointing out the errors in your approach and for generating some useful traffic in this forum, I'll bite.

First, your approach.

Flame-worthy? Yes. You make sweeping generalizations.

That being said, dragons these days are doing themsleves an injustice. I see the mconstantly powerleveling at purple necroflies.

Everyone just tells new players to get their levels there. That or guilds take trips their to PL folks.

Dragons? No, not all of them. Everyone? No. I don't. Guilds? I don't do that in mine. When you make sweeping generalizations, especially ones that make assumptions that are clearly not true, your argument falls apart.

Your intentions are not clear either -- in fact, they sound a bit greedy.

That being said, dragons these days are doing themsleves an injustice.

They (flies) are the cosmic easy button.

People with high ratings need to use those (flies) to get exp.

So... let me get this straight, flies enable players to gain levels quickly. This is "good" for a high-rating biped, but when a dragon does it, its doing themselves an injustice? That really is a bad way to get any sort of sympathy.

I suggest ANYONE wanting to be taken seriously avoid a "bipeds vs dragons" type of argument, and I strongly suggest avoiding the use of sweeping generalizations... that is, if you want to be taken seriously.


Second, the issue of powerleveling -- that is a hot topic. Everyone is entitled their on opinion on that. This is mine.

I don't want people telling me how to play. I don't want someone telling me how fast or how slow I can level. I don't always have the same desires and interests as another player. However, I don't want to be excluded because I have different priorities.

Now, if someone wants to burn through "all the content" and get powerleveled to cap in a few days, that's fine with me. That's not how I play, I won't help them with that goal, but I don't care, thats their priority, not mine. Does it bother me? No. I know the effort I went through and someone getting a similar result in less time does not de-value my experience.

What about burning through the content and getting bored? Well. Maybe they just want to run around as a high-level player and take part in the boss battles. Maybe they want to be able to go hunt with a high-level friend. Maybe they will get bored with the grind and leave. People have different priorities -- they're not all here for the intermediate content.

Given the staleness of the game, it is better for the population to accomodate those different priorities, let those people have their fun and encourage them to feel good about playing. (Note: I'm not advocating disruptive behavior. Competing groups at a normal field is not disruptive behavior.)

Finally, with respect to bipeds and dragons, realize that Horizons has been developed from the standpoint that there is a 'dragon game' and a 'biped game' that share the same world (that came from the ex-devs who actually did development on Horizons). They were not meant to be comparable, don't try to make them comparable. Also note that multiclassing is a reward for busting your butt. It's hard and time consuming because it's supposed to be. Don't think that a biped is more entitled to powerlevel than a dragon because it's harder to multiclass.

[Silverblaze]

First of all. Id like to thank you for posting on this. I run into an awful lot of apathy when i state my thoughts. Second, if I dont over generalize, I get the "this doesnt apply to me at all mindset". When I do generalize, I get a " Hey! I dont do that and at least ruffle someone's feathers, scales, or whatnot.

I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm simply stating my opinion and hoping someone else, at least one, takes time to think about it.

While I was told the easy response to this is simply " to each their own", I'll stand by understanding that others have a right to their own playstyle and rate. However, time and time again I do see people getting bored fast because they powerleveled. Is the their right? Certainly. Do I have to like it? Certainly not. I would like to see people come here make it flourish and someone take interest in it enough to

A) fix it.

B) scrap it and make a sequel

the way its been looking is

C) Please shoot the dead horse.

I had no intention other than to state my opinion and with everythign I write, generate thoughts on the topic. When I had been pondering how best to bring this to the table. I knew deep down it was one of those circular arguements, once cannot win, so instead of preparing it debate style I left some holes. these holes ( well some) you filled or poked at and made larger. I was pleased to have generated thought about the topic. Do I think anything is gonna change? No. Not in the least. However, I do group with some folks I rather like. these same folks...though not always the same ones, and whose names I'll not mention, can be quoted to say " wow another rating below 100, they have no business being out here." Do I agree with that? Generally. Again me and my sweeping generalizations eh? In any case. I still reason that people don take in much of what the game has to offer ( adventure wise, yes thats mid level range) for short cuts.

Power leveling and the biped vs. dragon debate is a hot topic, sure. Its supposed to be. However. I will say that if the original devs didnt think that that debate ( dragons vs. bipeds) wouldnt come up or shouldnt, they were lacking in foresight and definitely needed to realize most/some/enough/ a few ( aha not a complete generalization) MMO players only understand the words written in 1337 or pwn etc. and need to be able to compete with the others i.e. my dragon can whip your biped or vice versa. ( I just managed to generate a new topic under this one and would prefer for people to comment further with agree ments or most likely disagreements under the original thread. but as usual do as you will.

[Tempests]

Well, I was going to reply, had it all typed up, and then it wouldn't let me *shrugs* Will try short form. I have peds and dragons, most over 3yrs old. I don't like purple necro flies. I prefer blights, but don't reallly like them. Mostly I hunt alone. I feel sorry for those that find the game stagnant as I still find so much I haven't done yet. I don't like power leveling, as I feel you end up rushing through and not learning how your toon works, and then you always have to rely on others to carry you. I understand in the multiclassing it is very difficult to level without assistance, and groups are great for that. I know lots of people choose to use trophies for multiclass leveling. I have run into peds and dragons that have no idea how to use their abilities to play in this game, that is sad to me. It is how some choose to play.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

Last I remember those flies were starting to evolve into something less lame. That was over a year ago, though.

[C`gan]

I'll nibble. Being that I don't have the levels to hunt purple necroflies (Warrior 26 by accident), I'm more content to dodge the maple treants on my way to getting my crafthalls built. I don't know exactly where all the necroflies are, much less a particular color, nor do I really care, so I can't very well advocate people hunting them down or giving directions to them.

Tagath, for his level 50, has run into blue flies once or twice south of Chiconis when he was after their wings for techs. In that, he had to have help with them when he got, well, cornered in a well. He was in the mid, what, 20s? at the time.

[Justa Mirage]

I'll take a bite too...

I have had my share of "Flatspin can you take us to the 'flies'" tells
Same with Justa... we need a buffer for EB (every time I hear EB I think some upside down pear shaped face with alien eyes and a little green face)

I always tell them I am busy, or flat out tell them I don't PL if they are persistant at bugging me.

My stand is NO, I don't take, nor does our guild take players out to obvious high level mob slaughterhouses to bypass the impatience of some characters to advance their levels, thus bypassing the "learning process" of how to fight, how to strategize, and how to level on their own.

I have seen some 100th level dragons with 30 craft (the minimum for Lunus ROP). I always think it's so rediculous to race to 100th level. My enjoyment is getting to the next plateau, a level goal, a spell I can now cast, or armor I now can wear due to reaching that plateau.

I ran into a 100th level dragon the other day, tells me "I'm doing my level 60 adventure quests... so I can do AROP." I just think "Another PL'ed dragon that has NO clue..."

For Peds, PL'ing just means another level 100 under their belt. I am slowly climbing the Healer ladder with Justa. Sure soloing marble golems and yew treants gets boring sometimes, and sometimes I find a hunting partner and go out gathering multiple mobs for the bonus XP, but I will get that second 100th level under my belt... and it won't be done because I am standing like a sponge soaking up XP from a PL group out at the purple necroflies or blights.

[velveeta]

well, very interesting, i must say.

here is the point of view of one who has, unashamedly, partaken of the leech motel on many many occasions:
i am a live and let live person. if you don't want to pl or help anyone do so, hey - that's all jake to me.
but i can tell you that i needed the leech motel. as a biped, i was never doing just one thing at a time. at the height, i was working on warrior levels (on blight, with our low population, one could always depend on being able to hunt alone. it was finding a party that could sometimes be difficult), construction of my plot, and crafting. i would switch between, say fabric construction while outfitting, as well as trying to hunt for foodstuffs and resources with an eye to future crafting. any server meet at the leech motel was welcome, just so i could keep everything more or else equal.
believe me, i worked hard for every level i got. think its easy for a 25 warrior to get to the leech motel? i died 4 times on the way out the first time i was out there. i did finally get to the point where i could run fast enough to get in place without croaking like a sick frog, but i was usually dragging flies biting my butt all the way.
not to mention the good karma engendered - when i got high enough, it was my pleasure to help deserving noobs get a few levels ahead, if they wanted. for me, its not about 'cheating' or getting an advantage over more......ummm, what word......individual players. its about helping out and giving assistance. are you saying that you have never accepted help or given help to a younger person in real life? isn't it, really, the same thing as helping your younger sib with homework?
never really having played a dragon, i am not sure if it is any different. i will say i didn't see many hatchies at the leech motel, it was mostly bipeds. so i can't speak to powerleveling them.
and i have never been a big fan of the 'biped vs. dragon' argument. i am a big fan of the 'its not what you have, its how you use it' philosophy. a dragon is big and strong and can fly, a biped can use resources to build useful things and slip into places that can't accommodate wings. dragons have lairs, bipeds have houses. i can't see any real difference.

so, in the hopes of your sincerity in wanting opening discussion (and not trolling for flame), here are my thoughts. if you don't want to pl or help pl, that's fine. but don't rain on the parade of those who do - as the saying goes, judge not, lest ye be judged.

[LOVWYRM]

here my 2 cent

it took me more than 2 years of nearly daily playing to become ancient.
Beause I had more important things to do ingame than powerleveling.
Guild worK, e.g., talk to friends, make new friends,
plant a tree-build a house-raise a child^^
help others, a.s.o.

But how happy and honored I was, when I was allowed /invited
to join the legenary hunt- groups of e.g. Executioner or later Miquel van Seed.
They all were light years away from me (level), but it was pure fun
Little draggy could do some healing, and with the time passing, little damage.
I will never forget that. I´ve learned a lot from this heroes.

Beiing a "big one" myself", I followed that tradition, and sometimes invited younger Istarians into the group.
How much did they gain? 1-3-lvl. no prob for me- no leeching in my eyes, but
MUCH fun and community.

[pevil2000]

I have no problem with those who want to do it, or help others do it. I would never do it myself. I remember when I played UO I refused to download Razor to make macros, even if I was going to be sat there pressing the buttons myself. It felt like cheating, to just sit and watch it go round. Where was the point in playing it and getting to 100 inscription if I hadn't physically sat and done it myself? I might as well go out, buy the game, then buy an account which has 100 in everything. Then sit around saying "woo look at me" and wondering what to do (sorry if that sounds a bit...vicious, I'm not saying all people who like to PL/be PL'ed are ego-hungry maniacs, honest!)

I'm not going to deny it, its fun to level fast. It CAN get disheartening to be stuck on the same level for ages. I didn't used to do much adventuring towards the end of Unity because being level 72 fighting marble golems was getting very, very tedious. Each day I'd log on, and attempt to go up a level, then after 4 or 5 golems get bored. But I would far rather do that and work through the boredom and level barrier, than be at 100 in a couple of days and just feel like I missed something. I was so proud when I hit 100 craft all on my own. Even 50 lairshaping too!

Same with RoP. I find Chaos to be a bit different on Unity in their general views. Seems a lot of dragons do their RoP at 30/20. Nothing wrong with this, its when you're allowed to do it. But in my early days of Unity it was drilled into my head that you can't really do much for your own RoP at that level, and my experience showed me that (I did it at 50/30 and could only do *most* of it myself). Now having seen some of the more experienced dragons in action, I have no doubt some of them have done most of it themselves, because they know what scales/techs to use, and what TP to invest in, but the majority of 'first time' dragons will get walked through it. I can also understand alts being run through it at 30/20 coz it is actually pretty annoying once you're used to flying, to be grounded again

Oh btw on the homework analogy... there's helping and then there's doing for. In that situation if I actually had a younger sibling, I would do it the non-PL way (i.e. I would help them by explaining stuff they didn't understand or asking leading questions that may get them to remember what a teacher had already explained) rather than the PL way (the answer is *insert answer here*)

[velveeta]

i reread my post and did not find anything that lead me to believe i said anything about DOING homework, i said helping. no one on blight 'did' anything for me, but i got a lot of help.
not sure what is happening on the other servers, but on blight, it wasn't like someone was always at the leech motel, waiting for some noobs to beg for a couple levels. how many levels do you think a person can get, anyway? once you as a leech get above any real level (say more than 20), its not like you will leech 50 levels a session.
i totally agree with no macros/no pain no gain. believe me, i have raked in more than my share of dps - i still hate beetles of any stripe, but especially those darn bristugo grass beetles and ******** ruxus.....any old blightie can tell you about my relationship with those bastitches! and what do you think about a high level character 'babysitting'? i usta have onyx babysit me in kirsanth while i mined cobalt stuff. if not for onyx and others, i would not have been the metalworker i ended up being at the end.
i would never use or condone the use of macros. THAT is cheating, absolutely.
but to think that anyone just handed me almost 90 levels of warrior (that's where i was when the world ended), i must take umbrage, not just for myself, but for all the peeps of blight. on blight, we took and gave help. we did not act as substitutes or champions. as far as i know, and i am 100% certain, everyone (resident, not visitor) on blight advanced at their own pace and was there for each other. besides, on blight, at least, we were not shy about letting someone know that we thought maybe they needed to do some hunting on their own. especially toward the end of blight, i was often pestered by fair weather noobs from other shards who wanted me to do their hunting for them. those peeps were there for a high powered alt in the shortest time, and i, for one, let them know we didn't do things that way.

its a cliche, but unless you have done it, don't down it. i have used macros, and they are cheating - so i don't use them and don't associate with peeps who do. i have used powerleveling, and i don't think it is cheating in any way, unless you use it exclusively. its all in how you use it and what you choose to do. if you intend to cheat, you will find a way to cheat.

[IndyMan]

When you are paying for my sub, you can dictate how I play. Until then, pffft

Just another "you dont play right" post ..

[Justa Mirage]

It's like saying "I don't steal, but I know other's that do... it happens, I can say stealing is wrong, there will be those that disagree."

More or less, it is like stealing...

You get robbed of the experience a new player would be exposed to playing the game. I ran into a player that was new to the game, asked me lots of questions. One thing I will mention to that player is "be wary of the PLing guilds that can promise you instant growth... if you want to have fun and explore and learn, that is one path... if you want to skip to universe and be the all mighty powerful dragon, then get PL'ed"

Indy... you are right... it IS their choice, I however, find the concept of rushing to level distasteful. The only way I would see it as a positive, is that it's your 5th alt. character and you just don't want to go through growing pains to get your character to <nn> level through grinding / trophies.

When people ask me to assist, I answer "no"
When people ask me if I want to "join" them to assist my levels, I tell them "no"

It's that simple.... JUST SAY NO! (snickers, pokes indy in the ribs)

[Shur]

*puts on his Smokey the Bear hat*

Only YOU can prevent PL fires.

[IndyMan]

LOL Justa .... sometimes it is fun to level up the long slow way, sometimes it is more fun (for me) to get to the point where I am powerful. Just because I hit the top level does not mean I will quit playing a game. Heck, if the price was right I would just pay EI (or whoever they really are now) X dollars to get me a level 100 dragon, toss in ancient for a little more and I would be a happy camper.

[Kryu]

hahahaha >.> <.< Sells her husband's ancient under the table.