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Thread: Time to get some things cleared up

  1. #1

    Default Time to get some things cleared up

    Well the news finally reached me.........we are gettng ready to go to vanguard. I have 4 accounts in HZ and will be dropping 2 of them to get 2 vanguard accounts, thus enabling us to play with our friends.

    My wife and are the the LAST of any of the remaining non-employee alpha 2 players still in the game, to the best of my knowledge. Hell I did not even know at the time what alpha even was as it was my first game I ever tested. So why this note? Well as far as __I__am concerned HZ owes me, so I wanted to get it from the horses mouth and "hear" it personally. you have my address on file.
    ------------------
    My wife and I eventually STOPPED making suggestions, as __ALL__ we warned about on the boards in early beta ,in the focus group and even later on __Happened__. Sadly we have a 100% track record. But like so often we were told and I quote "..you have to trust us , we are professionals and KNOW what we are doing...we have done this before..." so what did I know? after all I am over 50, i had never tested a game and have only been a nurse for 25+ yrs........... *raises an eyebrow*
    So let's have a quick review of some minor issues that cost HZ Money, after all profitability and numbers of accounts is the bottom line.........AE ddid not listen, tulga did not listen neither did the other folks but maybe you and your team WILL....
    1. My wife told em (along with the other women) just how UGLY the beginning costume for female chars was of all races vs. the color of the mens and that most of the women would quit over it at the end of beta and the beginning of launch over this "insignificant" issue.__over 500+ acccounts lost__
    2. That making gates cost was a big mistake and people would quit over it. __500-750 accounts lost??__
    3. Making promises and NOT keeping them would cost ya __2K++ accounts lost?__<--and not over major issues, just minor ones...like the promise to fix the sconces on the dwarven homes, the windmills NOT turning for the grindstones etc etc. It is usally not major issues that comprises the final straw that breaks the camels' backs, just the little things. Of course for us in Azure Twlight that telport was never put in like promised even tho we offered to build one, since they Can be built despite the newplayers lack of knowledge about this fact. All sorts of manufactured reasons were given for that lack.<--I had a programmer look into this at the time and the reasons given by AE and later Tulga. "hogwash" he told me..............
    4. Azure Twlight should have gotten other properties during merge we HAD the numbers. By the numbers we OUTbid em all....however, bids did NOT take, plots were not credited to the owners for pledging, gold disappeared out of banks. Of course there was some reimbursement but well After the fact. Over 150 people quit the guild and the game over that one, with 1-3 accounts apiece. Am I bitter about this? you betcha at the time, but what REALLY gripped me was that we were TOLD it was FIXED but it WASN't!! *more lost income* that did not count of course those who left after not getting back their plots which after merge many doubled? in price that those players no longer had....oh well...but then all those illicit funds had to get gotten out of the economy and We had to pay the price i guess....
    5. We told the design staff early on that the design team needed to be ABLE to place pricing caps on anything in this game NPC OR Player and were called communists on the boards at the time. *shrugs* That there were gready NONaltrusic people that would eventually corner the markets and ultimately dominate the economy directly or indirectly thru illicit funds generated probably shortly after launch and that AE needed to be able to pinpoint ever single copper generated.....*coughs politely*....DUH.......and since this was NOT done by launch, the economy was trashed in less than 90 days......and the "little people" would pay the price of it when the populations Dropped.<--something is wrong with the picture when a toon is 30th lvl and wearing 5th lvl gear or less cuase they canot AFFORD the players prices. __that cost around 1k in accounts Minimum__
    6. It is NOT our fault (the players) that the engine for this game was never completed and the orginating company of it went banrupt before it was finished and no one was willing to put the money into it to complete OR get another one. But HZ took its pound of flesh out of us all as a result. There are not many people willing to pay for an ongoing game still in beta.
    7. We told em that the people that would keep this game afloat were paying ADULTS thru multiple accounts....most all the people WE knew were __OVER__ 25 yrs old and had a minimal of 2 accounts, that the design staff needed to listen to the people that really mattered. But we were told..."our statistics show that the average age of over 80% of the player base was less than 20 yrs old"...so what happened?? SOMEONE(s) up there in the clouds listened, made the game harder for all the kiddies....and where are they now?....well they sure AREN't here and WE got left with their mess!! __that cost ya at least 1-2k in accounts__ (so who were WE that never posted on the boards cuase no one wanted to Waste their precious game time defending their points of view with some loud mouthed Kid? lawyers, doctors, nurses, retired professionals, programmers, corperate sales people, military people, network specialists, information aecialists, brokers, independent business owners, plumbers, electricians last but not least husbands and wifes, mother and fathers, grandparents....you name it the ONLY kid we knew that played was our youngest child of 7 and with parental supervision at that. kiddies that for whom mommy and daddy were paying their acounts were NOT part of OUR crowd.!! (too bad I no longer have all those addresses and letters...lightening and power surges took care of that tho I CAN show you the paper work for the insurance reimbursment by god).
    8. Then jsut one of many biggies that nailed ya...(back to those promises again).....builders were __Promised__ that they would be able to help their dragon friends to build their lairs to the same extent, at least, that dragons in the guilds helped build GH's and other housing and machines for communites and private individuals. Bipeds would at least be able to gather the raw materials and do the 1st lvl of resource processing.....well that promise got trashed and at least 700 builders left the game with their multiple accounts and then so many of the dragons left becuase the work of their assistance to their friends NOW would not be returned for the complicated mess of lair construction all due to of someones's purist decisons... Well!!! so much for that one!.........now HZ has hardly got any world class builders left, and dragons and bipeds suffer alike......all for the sake of the board mongers and purists who no longer play the game *slaps forehead*...oh yes I failed to mention that more alturistic of the remaining world class builders finally figured out by that time that the hundreds of hours spent doing t1 construction was just NOT worth 100 coppers per applied unit of construction..........*sniffs-coughs politely* ummm would be be too far off to say 1k in accounts?
    9. Then of course to "fix" the economy all sorts of little nasty things were devised....you know... "unofficially" to suckout the excess funds therein that should never have been there to begin with. So all of little lowbies at the time got things like: increased transport costs via teleporters, the vielo, then new and improved vielo pricing. Then new and improved vielo pricing again, new and improved pawn limits in pricing AND then better game "balanced" pricing thereafter. Although the "official" reasoning given was due to the crafter needs for reimbursement and to REgenerate a now "historical" economy. All of us lowbies Knew better...we saw it all , the rich got richer thepoor got poorer. When the little people finally got to a point in lvl and figured out WOW i can make money doing this!! it was of course time to lose it. Well since we could not afford anything anymore anyways, we just made stuff for FREE. Shared with our guild mates or gave it away to our friends or bartered our way with each other around all the nonsense. thank goodness for the guild(s) WE took care of our own with OR without the help from the gods. since we never got the needed help from on High, we relied on ourselves. in time we eventually became self supporting, self contained soloists in building, crafting and adving. So was this "finale' of game mechanics and the demise of the world community and world economy OUR fault???!!! I dont think so, after all we only lived here ...... *blinks* sorry but I cannot place a number of lost accounts on this particular morass.
    10. So why have I not quit and left like so many? Well despite the treatment this game has given my wife and our small children who now no longer play, my wife and I love the game. It could be sooo much more........ hell I started playing this game cause there were __Supposed to be__ plans for lemurans.......an underwater game to commpliment the aerial game the of the dragons and we loved the idea of a water game and boats despite the fact we were never given any......
    11. Castles were never introduced.....and the only one in the game that was done was the giant one.....no one "seemed" to be interested in the idea of actual construction of anything __smaller__ and more doable....*sighes* a lot of builders left from that Final challenge not being in the game.....
    12. For Carmo, well we wanted things to make our area look nice....a light house...bridge to the little island...a small KEEP to be able to run to in times of "danger"...all of which we would/could have built at the time. We never asked for freebies.....ahhh well.....many more had left by that time
    13. *looks at a distant Horizons* i can still SEE the UNDERwater plots found using the gm abilities we bootstrappers had figured out...how swimming was FINISHED but never released for all races, how disks were to be orginally used on ground and underwater for that magical metal that only the lemurians were to be able to dig and smelt, how the sister fields were set up but later broken, changed then left unfinsihed and scattered and how the machines out in the fields which we the little ones depended on disapeared "for the sake of *community*". the excitment we experienced when we found Where all the gms tested the processing machines on that isle and how much i looked forward to my first tatoo. How we "would" fight like in the trailor cutting a flip over our adversaries and striking from behind with our swords in individual tailored combat sequences. How we would grow our own crops, find our own wells, furnish our own homes and ride our own horses that we would train. Finally to be able to ride into the sunset on the back of a friendly dragon taking the things he needed to his lair for his use that WE had helped gather and process while we watched a beautiful sun set and moon rising above the clouds below us....these are things we saw and hoped to see......all at a now distant horizon........
    But i tell ya truly ____Carmo is STILL here_____!!!
    SO.............
    Mr. Simmons go and take a look at Carmo. Look at TEN THOUSAND PLUS MANHOURS of REAL TIME work before the pad was put in and you will understand why i for one still stay....in the LAST of the ORGINAL guild villages in a GUILD desgnated area .......still intact and as beautiful as the day it was, when it was finished. Realize a fact therefore about human nature.....that building is a reflection of OUR OWN unique humanity...of changing our enviroment to something more astetcially pleasing. Buiding a Home and sharing is NOT an "ENDgame phenomina" but rather an intregral part of our own psyche and who we are, there at the onset. I for one will continue to play part time while working on my master crafter badge, the only badge i will ever wear. Last but not least, There HAD to be someone left who REMEMBERED the very beginning. Who remembered how it was.........and was __Supposed to be__ in a distant Horizons.
    We wish you and the team the best Mr. Simmons as we hope for a better future...

    Skirnir Ouija Glada and Wind Dancer,
    Husband and Beloved wife
    Last of the aplha players still in game.
    Last remaining Azure Twlight players still playing at this time


  2. #2

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    In MMORPGs...

    Promises should never be listened to.

    Hope is pointless, potential is a myth.

  3. #3
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    QUOTE:
    now HZ has hardly got any world class builders left,
    /QUOTE

    Ummm, what do you define as a "world class builder"? Someone with all 8 (yes, EIGHT) biped construction classes at 100 or a dragon with crafter and lairshaper at 100, either one having already scribed master construction forms?
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  4. #4

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    wow, that's an impressive rant.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Where's a rants mod when you need one... ;-)

    Just three questions, if I may...

    1) How did you manage to do so many exit interviews, and do you have the results in a format you can post here?

    2) How do you figure item 8 is a broken promise? Bipeds can help dragons to exactly the same extent dragons can help in biped construction: by collecting, processing, and carrying resources. If some bipeds refuse to help a dragon build, that's on those specific players and nobody else.

    3) Did you miss the memo about pre-blackout design ideas no longer being valid?
    Klaus Wulfenbach
    Mithril Council, Chaos
    "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever."


    "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    I can assure you, that NOBODY owes you a thing. IF you were a alpha player, you were "paid" by being allowed to play in advance of all paying players.

    Also, with everything that has transpired since that time, what you are really doing is trying to discourage new players, by passing off your perceptions for truth.

    The fact is as has been stated...

    Promise means little in an MMORPGs, since unforeseen issues arise that mandate changes.

    Potential means little, unless when realized , it's embraced by the playerbase.

    Bottom line here...

    You're NOT clearing anything up, you are trying to muddy the waters because things didn't turn out the way YOU wanted.

    If you don't like the game anymore, just move on. As a side note, I have moved back to Horizons after beta'ing Vanguard and playing since release.

    ( go figure )
    As a new dawn rises over Istaria, may we all band together to meet the challenges!

    Continuing Development of Horizons... SWEET!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    I want the rants forum back

  8. #8

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    It's nice that you got the chance to express your feelings for the game management. I'm sure there are lots that share your opinions and all. I do question why you didn't post this like a year or two ago? You chose to speak now when finally someone stood up for us and are trying to make some minor changes to the game and make our experience here better. These new owners deserve nothing but respect from us. They are trying to help us. It's a lot more than what we've seen here in a very long time. I left here and followed some players to WoW. I have just returned because this was my first mmorpg and the one I really liked and missed. No other game has what this game has.. mismanaged and lag and all. This game is far better IMO. I'm back.. I don't expect anything.. I am just back because I like what this game has to offer. The fun of the game out weighs the bad.

    Good luck with Vanguard. I'm choosing to stay here and give these new owners my support. I play the game because I want to.. not because I have to. Most of all, I play it because I find this game fun to play and rewarding.


  9. #9

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Geezus it sure didnt take long for the old "If you dont like it eff off" mentality to take over the forums again.

    Don't you guys get it? It's that kind of attitude that cost this game so many accounts. Sure the guy is on a bit of a rant.. Sure maybe it's a little out of touch.. But it's important. Maybe not to you, maybe not to Virtrium.. but it's sure as hell important to him

    Tolerance and kindness will win a thousand times the support of harsh words and indignance.

    Edit:
    To the OP: No one can dispute that alot of things were done wrong with this game. No one can dispute that through the 6-7 corporate entities that have owned HZ many, many things were done wrong, over-promised, mishandled. I am NOT a raging fan of this game. I am well known for being outspoken with a calous disregard for tact and propriety. What I will share with you though is this thought.

    Let's not punish the son for the sins of the father(s).

    Game development is a business. Businesses MUST make money or they will fail. Virtrium isnt some faceless company entity with a 20 million dollar budget. It's 3 guys more than likely workin 12-15 hours a day right now, coding like mad to try and fix some of the major problems with HZ. Right now the biggest problem is billing. If the billing system isnt fixed they dont get paid, the hosting company doesnt get paid and thats the end of the story.

    Changing things like animations, torches, clothing, plots... While all probably valid points, is simply unrealistic right now for them. If you like HZ and you still play then please give them a chance. It's only been a couple of weeks and they've already done more improvements to the game than it's seen in 16 months. That does little to rectify your issues I know but I think in all fairness I'm going to give Rick and co a chance. Indefinitely? heh hell no . These guys are showing results though and as long as they keep doing that and dont make outlandish promises I'm going to give them whatever support I can.

    All the best to you. I dont think your issues fall on deaf ears but I also dont think Virtrium can help those issues at this time. BTW on a side note (And with a slight bit of humour in mind) isnt goign from HZ to Vanguard kinda like the frying pan into the fire as far as game issues ok ok I jest I jest

    Seriously. Safe travels.
    Last edited by Spartikus; August 23rd, 2007 at 06:21 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    After 4 years? and a year of a company that does nothing it's important? Maybe now that he sees action he decides he wants to pipe up? That's his choice just as it is my choice to say something feels fishy to me and I will leave it at that and not state my other beliefs.



  11. #11

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Is it possible this was written 3 years ago and somehow just surfaced due to an unforseen rumbling in the terrain? Some of these arguments are so old they creak, especially when you start talking about pre-blackout options. For that reason, and for the reason it was difficult to read and understand, I can't give this rant a thumbs up. Two stars, Gene.
    Landowyn of Order
    The Steelworks
    Specializing in a little bit of everything


  12. #12

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartikus View Post
    Tolerance and kindness will win a thousand times the support of harsh words and indignance.
    Agreed. Had the OP been civil, addressed specific concerns in a clear and reasonable tone, and stuck to talking about actual issues, he may have found a warmer reception.

    A rant is a very poor way to say "hello".
    Klaus Wulfenbach
    Mithril Council, Chaos
    "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever."


    "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

  13. #13

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Wow. The way I see it, you haven't even given the new company a chance before you launched your eloquent punch in the face for all the things you never got in the game.

    Ever hear of putting the past where it belongs? In the past. Indeed, it should stand as a reminder of how not to screw up, like those before you.

    Rick and crew are trying to better the game and move forward. They can not do this if all we do is say "but so and so promised this" and "we were supposed to have that."

    Give them suggestions for moving forward. But don't hold them to promises, ideas, and aspirations of Tulga, EI, or anyone else. Hold them accountable for what they say they are going to do. Hold Virtrium, LLC accountable for the acts and promises of Virtrium, LLC and no one else.

    I stopped playing thanks to EI and the reasons for that are obvious. Prior to that, I had no intentions of ever leaving Istaria. I was once asked if I would "always play Horizons" and I said "yes," and they asked "even if someone else ran it? and my response was, "as long as they take care of it like it should be." EI did not do that.

    I left everything in place in Izzon Crest and went looking, I found Azeroth and am enjoying myself there. But, now, with renewed hope and inspiration, I am back to Horizons. I never uninstalled the game, and I still checked in over the past year to see how things were. Waiting for the heavy hand of EI to be lifted and for progress to begin again.

    It is here, we should be happy and looking forward to what can be done, not what wasn't done before.

    LexDivinia
    Chaos, founder of the Divine Empire (formerly Lewdacy)

    PS.
    How did you get all the numbers of people who left due to "X"?
    Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  14. #14

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    I didn't bother to read the entire OP. I can say however that my interest and concern pretty much bottomed out as soon as I read the first issue. Ugly women's starter clothing caused a loss of 500 accounts......doesn't exactly build momentum for a rant.

    Drev

  15. #15

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Skirnir,

    First off, although my forum title reads "Staff :: Moderator", I am NOT an official spokesperson for the company. I am a member of this community, just like everyone else. I volunteered to assist Reyem with the moderation of the community boards.

    This post, is NOT an official word from Virtrium, or its employees. It is my own opinion regarding your post.

    I hope, that with some of the information that I am able to provide, that I can alleviate some of your fears, and maybe put others fears to rest.



    By the sound of your post (Which I do agree.. is very much a rant), it comes across to me that you typed all this out as though you feel that none of the new members of Virtrium are aware of any past mistakes, or choose to ignore those mistakes....

    If this is the case, I can tell you.. that is sooo not true.


    There is no "burying heads in the sand". The people that make up Virtrium are people that are very aware of the main issues and problems with the game. Hindsight is 20/20, and they also are aware of the problems and issues that happened internally within the previous companies, which only added to the problems within the game.

    Over the last year, I spent a lot of time on other message boards talking to people. One such message board was set up by people as a "safe haven", free of moderation so that people could speak their word without fear of censorship. A couple of past developers joined the discussions there as well.

    After the sale of Horizons to EI Interactive, several ex-Tulga employees came forward and openly discussed some of the internal issues that plagued the progress of the game. They were not able to speak about any of that stuff before, due to professionalism.. but since they were no longer employees, they were able to.

    One post, by Smeglor, stands out in my mind. I'm quoting it, in its entirety here for you to read:

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeglor
    Smeglor: Rather than a point by point reply, Phillip, I'll just respond in general.


    Yes, the people making design decisions pre-launch and during beta didn't react to the mistakes and problems. Why? On one hand, the game wasn't even done - we were working 80-100 hours a week during Beta (this actually started in Feb, 2003) just to try to "finish" the game. That's really not a very good excuse, though, because my opinion was to do fewer things, but do them well. I was ignored (I wasn't very influential at that time). The real reason - the people involved were not qualified to do the tasks they were given. This is reflected in the fact that the lead adventure designer and client programmer (among others) were fired a month after launch. Myself and others were lobbying to get them fired (or at least demoted) and replaced long before that. We were ignored/refused, citing that we couldn't afford to replace them at that stage.


    For after launch, on the whole, I'm going to agree with you. Most actions and changes were made from a narrow perspective of how things "should" be according to an individual, not how they would impact existing players, and not as agreed upon by any sort of team. Plus the members of the design team kept changing, and with each team came a new set of ideas about what was wrong and most needed to be changed. And without insult toward Amon or any of the others personally (this was management's mistake, not theirs) - every replacement designer after launch had no previous design experience. They were all promoted from customer service, or had been hired as junior designers (data entry). They were all learning on the job, and some of them just weren't well suited to the work.



    Whoever said HZ was made by amatuers was quite accurate. Very few of the developers, espeically those involved after the post-launch layoff, had prior game development experience. Hence all the mistakes, lack of consistancy, etc. You could also say this was magnified by a hands-off management style for anything other than broad tasks, leaving each individual pretty much on their own initiative to do the right thing. This can work and help foster creativity when the employees are experienced, mature, and professional. Too often that wasn't the case.



    Part of the sorrow on Amon and Ophelea's part, I think, is the fact that at the end, the team remaining was now finally seasoned. We had learned many mistakes. We had started to put serious effort into taking our time in making decisions that made sense in both the short and long term (e.g. the tutorial), and were almost able to concentrate on those efforts as we finished fulfilling feature promises (such as Lairs, AROP, and Confectioner). There was still a long way to go and a lot of work to do with few resources to do it. We probably would have made a lot more mistakes. But maybe, just maybe, we could make something sustainable and enjoyable to enough people to be self-sufficient and start making a game from scratch applying all the hard-earned lessons. Now we'll never know.


    There are many other posts by Smeglor, that brought up other issues. Still, in all the posts, Smeglor didn't butter anything up, or downplay anything. They did know, and they were very well aware of the problems they were facing. The real problem was, they were just not able to do much of anything about it in the early years.


    My point for bringing this up.. is that the crew at Virtrium are well aware of the problems that plagued the earlier companies. After having talked to Amon and Smeglor in the past, I can tell you that they are very passionate about their work, and especially about Horizons. Amon Gwareth is with the company, and he seems just as devoted, if not moreso, than he was in the past. With the differences in management between Virtrium and previous companies, I don't really see the roadblocks and hurdles that Smeglor wrote about regarding AE and Tulga.



    I know you've stuck with this game for a long time, and while your post is a rant, I can see the passion you have for this game.. you obviously care enough about it and its future to type up a very long post regarding the problems you saw throughout beta. Please see though, that you aren't alone, either in how you may feel about the game, from a players perspective, or what you may see were the glaring problems and previous mistakes of the prior companies. Many others do see them as well, and from what Smeglor has posted in other boards regarding the previous companies that worked on Horizons, it is apparent they are aware of many other issues which never came to the light of the public.



    Did they learn from their mistakes? Time will tell on this one. As you have heard the news, then I am sure you are aware that Virtrium has, currently, 3 employees, who are committed to improving the game, and making a difference for all of us. The sale though, is very recent.. but within that short time they already have managed to do far more than EI Interactive was able to do in the year they owned the game.


    The last year was hard on everyone, and set the game and its community back very far. It's almost like rebuilding a house that almost burned down to the very foundation. I know it may seem frustrating, given the three years before that where so much work and so much progress was made.. It's wonderful that you stuck with the game for that long.. However, the circumstances relating to the sale, and EIs tenor prior to that, pretty much null and void all that happened in the past. Just like with that house that caught fire and burned down.. yes, you lost all your possessions, and the many years of work you put into it.. but what is done is done. It is the present, right now.. and the future.. those are the only things that count.



    If you wish to wait and see what happens with Horizons, or if you wish to move on, is you choice.. I hope your passion for Hoizons wins through though. The future is a heck of a lot brighter now, than it was with the previous owners...

    Take care

    -Menkure

  16. #16

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartikus View Post
    Game development is a business. Businesses MUST make money or they will fail. Virtrium isnt some faceless company entity with a 20 million dollar budget. It's 3 guys more than likely workin 12-15 hours a day right now, coding like mad to try and fix some of the major problems with HZ. Right now the biggest problem is billing. If the billing system isnt fixed they dont get paid, the hosting company doesnt get paid and thats the end of the story.

    Changing things like animations, torches, clothing, plots... While all probably valid points, is simply unrealistic right now for them. If you like HZ and you still play then please give them a chance. It's only been a couple of weeks and they've already done more improvements to the game than it's seen in 16 months. That does little to rectify your issues I know but I think in all fairness I'm going to give Rick and co a chance. Indefinitely? heh hell no . These guys are showing results though and as long as they keep doing that and dont make outlandish promises I'm going to give them whatever support I can.

    All the best to you. I dont think your issues fall on deaf ears but I also dont think Virtrium can help those issues at this time. BTW on a side note (And with a slight bit of humour in mind) isnt goign from HZ to Vanguard kinda like the frying pan into the fire as far as game issues ok ok I jest I jest

    Seriously. Safe travels.
    Wow. It isn't often I agree with Spartikus, so take this for all that it is worth. I completely agree.


  17. #17

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    It's a bit of a rant, but hey, haven't we all felt as he did at some point or other?

    One point I gather from his post about the women's clothing being ugly, is that a relatively MINOR, simple change could have helped keep a few players around. I suppose it's possibly true, I'm not sure we can know for sure either way.

    I think the crappy engine performance was the major reason people left, with the second biggest reason being lack of things to do once hitting level 80 or so. There were few if any quests. Only lvl 80 bone marrows to level on in Eastern Deadlands. It got to be a slow boring grind just leveling a single class... 450 times completing "Kill 30 wraiths" imperial tasks or "Kill 30 wolves" was about it if you couldn't handle Marrows. over, and over, and over, and over...

    That's my take on the early failure of the game. If the game hadnt been released early, it very well could have had a stronger launch. Of course then it would have been competing 1 on 1 with World of Warcraft. The timing just was poor all around. Had the game actually been ready to go live that December 2003, things might have been alot different. More players = more money coming in = more dev work, and it would have just built from there.

    All we can really do now is try to find thing to do to keep ourselves occupied. Tulga at least gave us ARoP and Lairs, as well as hoard abilities (for what was originally a seriously out of balance race) and a few fun seasonal events (Halloween and Christmas). I think they progress went a little slower than it should have.

    Let's see what Rick can do with Hz. There are many issues needing addressed and he may even get to some of them. We shouldn't hold him resopnsible for previous promises nor take our frustration out on him. I Imagine he wishes many of the same things for the game himself.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    what a pointless rant - u just couldn't help yourself, could you..?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    ACH! Mine EYES!

    Um... you will be very disappointed with Vanguard... I was and unsubbed.

    I have been playing MMORGS since UO in 1995. Why I like HZ is because it appeals to me. Even though it has its problems, somehow, it has a charm that the other MMORGS don't have. Community is probably the first, the second is the ability to "create" your own world with crafted structures and items (although the asset art COULD use some eye candy modifications)

    I don't even recall you ever posting often here, but coming in NOW with this prattle means primarily that you have a chip on your shoulder about how the game was handled on a business level and want to let all of us who are happy about the recent "owner takeover" that no matter how rosey it smells right now, you are still hip deep in maneur and haven't figured out what dung really smells like... so let me post this very long narritive with no formatting to tell you why I am leaving.

    At this point..... a lot of us don't care because we are thick skinned veterans who have stayed the course... have a nice time in what ever MMORG you go to, and I hope it fills whatever need you are looking for.
    Justa Mirage: Ranger 100 / Healer 92 / Carpentry 100 / Confectioner 100 / Fletching 92 / Weaver 62 / Gatherer 34
    Flatspin: Ancient Lunus Dragon 100 / Craft 100 / Lairshaping 100

  20. #20

    Default Re: Time to get some things cleared up

    Lets keep the ranting down, please. I think Spartikus' post summed it up nicely.


    I don't want to have to pull out the mod stick. I'm of the belief that a good moderator moderates in moderation..

    ....however, that does not mean that I won't start whacking posts if I absolutely have to.

    Please.. adhere to the forum rules. Be civil and show courtesy towards other posters. And above all, please show some common sense when posting. That's all we ask.

    -Menkure

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