Billing Feedback

[Raeshlavik]

Hmm, ok...

I think we may be getting a bit off track here: If I had to guess (and I've a fairly good educated guess here) the main reason for the *proposed* billing changes center around the payment processing company. Normally a payment processing company has a few ways they get thier cut: Per unit and monthly based on throughput.

'Per unit cut' states that the payment processing company gets a flat dollar charge for every transaction while 'monthly based on throughput' is usually a sliding percentage based on total dollar value...

Where these two get tricky and require asking the playerbase what they would like is that you have to pass a certain volume of transactions to make one more profitable than the other, or have your per unit cost high enough to make the per unit worth while.

So there's actually a lot of brain-damage that goes into making these sorts of deals because while you might have the best of intentions for your game, the billing company has no such qualms and will simply ******** you on proccessing fees without so much as looking you in the eye.

So, the way it *looks* like they are trying to work it is the big-ticket subscriptions will work under a per unit plan so that Vi gets the majority of the money based on the flat transaction fee: $4 out of $200 is better than $4 out of $10, as long as the number of transactions stays under a certain number.

The smaller subscriptions will probably work on the other, throughput, method because Vi will get more money that way as well: 5000 transactions at $10 is $50,000 minus the 2% fee ($1000) is better than 500 transactions at $200, which is $100,000 at the sliding 4%-5% fee ($4000-$5000).

So, armed with this little nugget of knowledge, and figuring Vi is going with someone other than PPT, its a bit easier to see why the price might be going up a little and the billing structure is changing.

Ultimately Vi is not holding a gun to your gead and extorting money out of you. If you don't like/can't afford/feel cheated by the new billing structure, as has been mentioned there are many other MMOs out there that will gladdly take your money. But I, for one, understand the reality of the industry and back Vi's decision to try and change things a bit... I hope there are enough like minded folks when this is over that I won't have a server all to myself.

[gopher65]

Yeah, that's one of my problems too. I was paying 8.95 (or whatever) before as well. So for me paying even 12.95/month is a huge jump. But going from 9 to 15 dollars just makes me go 0_0. That's a pretty sharp increase for an ancient game that's still in beta.

[Tarran of Chaos]

WTB: account with 3-5 character slots, 1 plot, and 2 simultaneous logins. Paying $15 a month.

WTT: Boars Hide Mask for $20

WTT: Blood Sword for $20

Throw up the descriptions of the other boss weapons and armor in an online store and I may purchase others. All I know is that the weapons will be camped with the banned players back so I may as well just purchase them cuz it is the only way I can take advantage of that in-game content.

[Kumu Honua]

Horizons currently has X players and Y that are thinking about returning and Z that would be fully new accounts.

You need to balance the price so that you get the most out of X, entice the most of Y to return, and get the most Z you can manage to attract.

I personally think that a far lower price than the $12.95 would be the best. Your loyal X player base will get a discount to what they have been flushing away to EII and be happy. Y will see the price lowered and think that it's worth giving a shot again and the Z's will look and see that the game is not as expensive as Wow, Lotro, and many others and might give this game a chance.

[LaughingOtter]

Several posters have noted that their willingness to pay a greater fee was dependant on seeing development work being done and new content coming out. I think that's an understandable position, but what will it take to satisfy that requirement?

We have a new client build testing on Blight, and the dragon emote pack was just incorperated into the game. Small steps, yes, but a start. Is this enough to be considered proof of intent?

I know there is new content coming because I wrote a bunch of it. Several of my quests were broken when they went to Blight and I was working with Velea to get them fixed when the sale happened. Velea was also working on the second Beagle quest. I also had several other quests done and was waiting on art assets for them. The crystal fixes Hal'cyon did were either ready to go in or nearly so. The confectioner changes were close to finished and the world building for that had begun.

All of this is nearly ready and hopefully we will see it soon. While it's not entirely brand new content, the work required to finish these things will be. Getting all this finished, out, and fixing the issues that are going to crop up are also small steps, and also a good start.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to see concrete actions, but remember that small changes are still changes and small improvement is still improvement. The team has a huge task in front of them; let's not make it harder by setting expectations that can't be met.

[DarkCommentator]

15 pages *rubs eyes thouroughly*

Okay...

My thing is can we get those numbers on Ancient Subs hammered out?
Maybe if we can see the numbers it might be more affordable to make the switch to Ancient in ht elong run I mean $21 dollars a month for a plot that is 'suppose' to be much larger then the current ones (hopefull twice as big so it is equivalent to atleast 2 plots) would be less then the $26 I am paying for 2 plots at the moment.

Next...

I agree a price hike before new content and patches to fix the current issues seems a little backwards. Im glad to see things are getting worked out but can we get something for what we ae givving?

And as previously stated by several maybe fixing the 'free' accounts might yeild you some of that needed income. But I can see the logic of fixing the billing problem once, however maybe you can fix things as you prepare the new billing system? Maybe make people more excited about paying more?

Well hopefully we can get those Ancient numbers and some can crunch the numbers and take a look.

[Teto Frum]

Ok , last comment on me from overall thread.

beginners play for less

gifted get increase of whatever is decided

ancients those with enough money or will, will save money because everyone wants it to cost less than their current 2 or more subscriptions( under my math this group now generates less income for Vi)

seems like middle class takes it again to me

Lastly i would like to thank Vi for their interest in Hz , the dialogue on change, I`ve said what ive wanted to say and look forward to what ever is decided, and hope that everything works out. There is no other istaria to go too, as ive read so many other talk of switching games. I agree small change has started and am thrilled , but to otters comment on how much change is needed that a person to person thing that this thread wont find out, only the decisions made and the 29th will show us that.

[hopper]

Hi there,

I think that the proposed price increase is fair as long as we can see value in it, such as increase communication between your staff and the community. As for the pricing I would rather see a more flexible system, so here is my opinion…

$9.95 for a basic subscription – no plot – 3 character slots

Subscription Upgrades
$5.99 for each additional concurrent login – maximum 3 concurrent logins per account
$4.99 for each additional plot – maximum 3 plots per account
$1.99 for each additional 3 character slots – maximum 9 characters per account

I also think that if you truly want long term customers then you better step up and provide some real value, so here is my opinion

Special Terms
3 month gets 5% discount on all subscriptions fees
6 month gets 7.5% discount on all subscriptions fees and a choice of an in game “eye candy� item
12 month gets 10% discount on all subscriptions fees and a choice of an in game “eye candy� item as well as a choice of an “artifact� item

The biggest problem with trying to get long term customers is the games previous track record with bankruptcies, buyouts and lack of communication. You have to make it worth my while to pay for 12 months in advance.

An “eye candy� item could be a shoulder pet or an emblem. An “artifact� could be a weapon, armor, a special formula or a crystal, but it better be very special. These don’t have to be new items, but the item should not be available in game right now.

Thanks J

[Kala]

Man, I need to start a thread on this instead of just repeating it over and over. Imperial consigners have a global consignment limit. The limit is 10/consigner, but you can stick all of that on ONE consigner. I don't remember how many imperial connies there are, but lets say it is ten. That means you can stick 100 items on any imperial consigner (note: private consigners operate differently, and do not have a global limit).

This is the same limit that exists right now at this very moment, and it is the same limit that has existed since they made consigners global like a year or 3 before buyout.

Honestly, you'd think I was the only person who ever read those patch notes the way people are talking.

Oh, well, this explains a lot. I'm not as concerned about the plans for reduced consignment slots for the basic subscription, although I still don't think it's a good idea.

And yes, some of us DO read the patch notes. It's also been well over a year since we had ANY patch notes for live. (And some of us have bad memories. Like me. *sigh*)


I've also been seeing quite a few people comment that $2/month isn't such a large increase, that if it hits your budget that badly you shouldn't be playing in the first place, etc.

My response to you, first of all, is that in some cases, it isn't a $2/month increase. Many people got in on the special promotion pricing. In my case, I'll be paying around $6/month additional on one account. Yes, I'm aware, $6 still isn't that much for some.

Second, frankly, it's no one's business but the person paying for the game what their financial situation is. They may have other factors involved in their decision for all you know.

Third, a lot of people don't seem to be saying they can't afford an additional $2/month. They're just unwilling to pay the top-dollar amount for a game that still has a lot of "quirks." They're especially unwilling to pay that much extra for multiple accounts.


If even one person decides that $15/month is now too much to pay, it would take seven people at the new rate to make up for the loss of income for one person at the lower rate. (($2 x 7) vs $12.95) No, I'm not taking into account other factors like how much Vi is charged for each transaction; I don't have numbers for those.

I still think Vi should test the waters first and see how many people are willing to resub/sub to the game, knowing updates will be slow. As far as I'm aware, there's no certain way to know how many people will keep playing when the current billing system is practically non-existant. Once there are actual numbers to work with, then decide if a price increase is needed and, if so, how much it should be.


If the PTB decide they need to forge ahead with this new plan, then I'd make two suggestions for the Ancient Subscription.

One, rename it. Dragons are awesome and neat, but that just makes me feel old. If you insist on calling it that, change the basic sub to Hatchling and the Gifted sub to Adult. ;p

Two: Either make it the equivalent of two gifted subs and reduce the price some OR make it equivalent to two gifted subs, keep the price, and add a decent incentive. (A shoulder pet still isn't worth it as an incentive for me.) Suggestions on incentives: let the subscriber choose one of the following: extra plot, extra concurrent login, extra character slots, extra consignment slots.


Additionally, I would also recommend going with the a la carte system to an extent. For example, the potential to add two extra options to an account, but only once for each option. Anything additional, you'd have to get another account for. To go into a little more detail...

Just an example (insert random numbers here)

Basic account: $12.95

Potential options:
Add 5 characters: $4
Add 1 plot: $7 (Why did I put plots as more expensive, you ask? Because they're a finite in-game resource.)
Add concurrent login: $4
Add 10 connie slots: $4


Player A wants another plot and an extra login. No problem. They go into the billing screen, select their options, and sign up for another $11/month. It's almost as expensive as another account, but they weren't going to use the extra features anyway.

Player B wants two more plots. Since you can only "add a plot" once, they'd have to get another sub on their account.


This would allow people to customize their accounts, while helping to retain some of the cash that would (theoretically) be lost by allowing people to add as many plots as they like to an account.

[Sonea]

Now that i've skimmed through all 15 pages, and frankly after about the 5th page I was mostly looking at the names to see who was posting rather than their messages, it occurs to me that I really don't care what the pricing structure is. I'll pay whatever because I truly love this game and the community of players.. ok and the ability to build on my plots which is unparalleled in any other game I've played. I want to see the game grow and prosper. $2 a month more or $5 a month more is fine with me.

I don't care about the price. I do care about not losing my characters. And I do care about seeing so many old names resurface. I didn't see Kwinn's - he must be out fishing somewhere. And some others were absent, but the interesting thing is that so many are so very interested - and vocal - about keeping and improving and revitalizing Istaria. What a wonderful thing that I'll bet no other MMORPG can lay claim to.

Long live Istaria!
Soni

[mage]

Ok, so I guess we need a list:

• SoE games (EQ2/Vanguard/etc): One price to play - addons such as the online charater/guild functionality cost extra.
• Korean Imports: Usually free to play but lean heavily on the 'micropayment' plan where everything in game costs around a buck(US) at an online 'store'.
• WoW/DAOC/EQ: One price to play, major content upgrades cost as much as the base game.
• EVE/LoTRO*/CoV/CoH/DDO: One price to play, major content upgrades are free (*so far).
• SecondLife: Usually free to play, monthly fee for additional things such as land to build on.
• Shadowbane (on release): Base races cost base amount per month, other three 'prestige' (aracoix, centaur, minotaur) races cost more.

So, really, MMOs are all over the map as far as payment is concerned.

Two others that have different options:

Runescape: Free accounts vs. paid accounts

Free account: Can play but not own a house, use member only skills or participate in member-only quests.

Paid account: Can own a house, use member only skills, participate in member-only quests, play in member-only worlds and you have a much larger storage capacity. Also, Runescape housing is probably more functional and useful to a player than housing is in any other MMORPG I have ever played since UO (which I would claim has the second most useful housing- first for the ability to customize and decorate).

UO (Ultima Online): Players can purchase advanced character templates that progress their character, characters can purchase tokens that can be redeemed for decorations, etc.

I disagree with those who claim that no other game out there provides incentives for customers to spend additional real-world money for in-game benefits. Having this kind of ability really shouldn't affect anyone else in a non-PvP game. Whether people agree that this is fair is a completely different issue but this practice is far from non-standard.

[Istaria CS]

Thank you for your input. We will be making an announcement soon regarding our billing plans.