Good Faith!

[Flindar]

Ok devs please read and reply to this....

I waited for some word on Vista... I know your very busy and I understand that...

So... as a show of good faith and my faith in the new company I went ahead and resubbed..(even though i can barely play the game)
(A gifted sub too)

Please please please... give me some official word on your progress or if its even on the docket... for a Vista fix

Please dont give me the "Vista is not supported at this time"

Thankyou

[CallakDW]

Faith is unearned trust, a forced illusion willingly created in one's own mind. I don't believe in faith. Getting things working on vista would be a great movement to earning real trust.

[Starmind]

Quote for faith (Not sure where I first heard of it):

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

I'm thinking it's a religious quote of some sort.

[gopher65]

"Faith" is "Hope" that is unsubstantiated by any physical evidence whatsoever. In essence, faith is "false hope". Belief that is without substance or reality. This is why belief in the supernatural is called faith (because there is no physical evidence of the supernatural).

I always like the story about Pandora's box. How she opened the box and let all the monsters that consume the world out (war, famine, etc). But she closed it just in time to keep the worst monster of all, the one that would cause the most damage to humanity, inside of the box: False Hope. Hope without reason. It's kind of a sad story, because eventually someone else reopens the box and lets it out anyway. Ancient Greek stories are always so sad.

[Starmind]

My, aren't we the pessimist.

Just remember: Any substantially advanced science will seem as magic to those who don't understand it.

If I were to start discussing the finer ins and outs of quantum mechanics, most people here would cry "Magic" or "Superstition", yet it's been both proven mathematically and experimentally that on a sub-atomic level, reality is determined by observation. (It's not real until someone 'observes' it to be real)

According to a somewhat logical progression (though it could be argued it doesn't necessarily follow, which is a whole another debate) the whole universe exists because of faith.

Just a thought to drive those anti-religious people out there nuts.

[gopher65]

Just remember: Any substantially advanced science will seem as magic to those who don't understand it.

"Magic" and "Supernatural" do not mean the same thing.

1) Magic is an unexplained phenomenon that has been observed. By its very nature magic is something that has been seen, but hasn't yet been explained in a rational fashion. With sufficient study magic can be explained.

2) Something that is Supernatural is something that cannot, by its very nature, be observed. It is "beyond nature". Beyond reality. It cannot be explained because it cannot be studied and examined.

If I were to start discussing the finer ins and outs of quantum mechanics, most people here would cry "Magic" or "Superstition", yet it's been both proven mathematically and experimentally that on a sub-atomic level, reality is determined by observation. (It's not real until someone 'observes' it to be real)

According to a somewhat logical progression (though it could be argued it doesn't necessarily follow, which is a whole another debate) the whole universe exists because of faith.

No. The thing exists. It's just that the waveform doesn't collapse into a specific place until it is observed. But it still exists beforehand. And "observed" doesn't necessarily mean "seen by a consciousness". This is just one of those little misconceptions that has arisen by attempting to describe math in word form. In this context "observed" and "seen" do not mean the same thing.

[Starmind]

Uh, hrm.... one questions. Can a photon actually be seen? Or even observed for that matter?

No it can't. Only its effects can be observed or seen. Many subatomic particles are the same way. And when you get down on the quantum level (smaller than a planck length) nothing is observable by the nature of its very size.

Does that mean it's all supernatural? Remeber, by your definition of supernatural it is anything that can't be observed.

And, to differ with you, many scientists disagree with the theory that the photon actually existing before it is observed. If it actually exists, it would theoretically need to exist everywhere at once (because the actual path has not collapsed into a stable state until it has been observed)

Of course, the probabilities of all possible paths add up to just 1.

Well, enough of the ramblings.

Just a few more headaches for ya'll who have no idea what we're talking about.

[Flindar]

Wow....

Derailed in 6 posts..... is this a new record?

Anyways please refer to OP

thanks

[Starmind]

Heh.. Oops

[gopher65]

Just a few more headaches for ya'll who have no idea what we're talking about.

This made me laugh heh.

Wow....

Derailed in 6 posts..... is this a new record?

Anyways please refer to OP

thanks

It's your own fault for using such a vague title.

[CallakDW]

Derailed in 6 posts..... is this a new record?

As Gopher says in so many words, I'd say we are on subject considering the title.

[Zexoin]

Uh, hrm.... one questions. Can a photon actually be seen? Or even observed for that matter?

No it can't. Only its effects can be observed or seen.

Well, you can see photons every day, every second you live, if you're not blind. You can basically see, because of photons perturbating your retinal light-sensitive cells. If we follow your logic (and such has been done by Descartes centuries ago), nothing can be trusted, since anything you "see" is not seen directly, but through its effects. Then the concepts of "magic" and "supernatural" don't make any sense anymore (just like what I'm saying... Well I need some sleep.)

[Justa Mirage]

so if you can't see wind, does that make it supernatural?

[Flindar]

As Gopher says in so many words, I'd say we are on subject considering the title.

Uhh... no your not...

If your close minded enough to consider the title alone to be the source of the post then ok....(maybe)

But if you actually ready my post it was about MY faith in Vitrium and the hopes of a VISTA fix...and asking them to make a reply in some manner to it
It was not about what YOU think faith is... there is NO question like "What is faith or please explain it to me!"

And these posts are drawing attention from that original fact...

How you think this makes the leap to photons... matter.... magic and myth.... is quite......(enter your own word for the sake of being nice)

And your continued effort to argue with me only explains the fact of why many people wont bother to post anything..... why so if a select few are going to tear it apart the second you do?



Thankyou

[CallakDW]

Please don't call me close minded. Notice my original post made comments on both portions of the conversation, not just the title. As for the leap to photons myth etc, it's still regarding faith, which was a portion of the conversation. My comment was also intended to say, I could never agree in taking blind faith in somthing like you are, let alone another new company taking over HZ, we've been burned too many times. We can only wait and see what the future brings.

[CallakDW]

...in fact, the only reason I did come back myself is because the free time they were granting and the fact that I thought I had it working on Vista, and so it was for a while, thus I renewed my account. Then it broke, and I "fixed" it again, and it broke again. I finally ended up creating a Windows 2000 dual boot in the end to get it working consistantly. But nay, had I known that it wasn't really working consistantly to begin with, I would never have had "Good faith" towards Vi and renewed my account liek you did. To some of us, there is a flaw in the basic consept of faith, and that is why this thread was taking the direction it did.

This can be interpreted by the devs and ops too, that if they don't do somthing about this problem, they are going to loose a lot of people that also don't beleive in blind faith.

[Drevar]

I'd say if you upgraded to Vista while still having the choice of XP or even 2000, you had blind faith in Microsoft

For those poor saps who had no choice and got Vista with thier pre-builts, my sincere condolences.

Drev

[Salis]

Hah, maybe it is time to port Horizons to Linux also, cause I do want to play this game for many years to come. However XP is the last Windows in while ever use.
Already working on Ubuntu now, for the rest.
So I will have faith that Virtrium will one day port Horizons to Linux. Or make a Horizons 2 that works on Linux.

Salis

[gopher65]

Someone somewhere already got HZ to run decently on one of the Linux variants. Don't remember who it was or which Linux they were using (if that even matters). A few other people have tried over the years too, with varying degrees of success and failure.

[Creme]

As PCs fail (and sadly they do) and get replaced. It will become increasingly difficult to get a system with XP on it.

I know I looked at some replacement systems recently and they all came pre-installed with Vista on them.

I think all Flindar is asking for here is whether or not there is some plan to try to come up with a compatible Vista version; I don't think he much cares whether it's a Vista application, but rather, one that you can log in and play on.