Dragon Riders

[Andrakhyn]

I'm for this. At the moment I think bipeds and post-hatchling dragons play largely separate games.

Part of the problem is our means of movement - and dragon riding would solve this. The other is multiclass and rating - but that's a different topic.

Re riding, I don't think we need mounted combat. With the way we eg. tail-whip, breathe fire, cast spells, biped passengers would be smashing their faces on our backs repeatedly during combat.

But the ability to carry them outside of combat would be good. It might require a special back scale?

Two extra ideas...

Rescue

In the heat of battle, a dragon can often escape by taking flight. Bye bye bipeds... I'd like to see an ability that lets us grab a (just one) biped and carry them off a short distance. It would have a timer on it which would force us to land after eg. 10 or 20 seconds. Then the biped could 'mount' properly if needed.

Dragon Rider biped school

If they were to introduce mounted combat of any form, I think it should require a new school, allowing only particular attacks that can be launched from dragon-back. They might also have special dragon-only heals/buffs.

[CallakDW]

Theres a lot of good ideas there.

[Lunarya]

I personally would like an event if dragon riding came, like a big quest or something explaining dragon riding or something..

[Andrakhyn]

I personally would like an event if dragon riding came, like a big quest or something explaining dragon riding or something..

I think a related event is a brilliant idea. Have some disaster that requires us to carry mounted bipeds to overcome. Eg. the Withered Aegis could take a whole island and disable all portals to it - with the need to fight them off etc.

Then require bipeds in some fashion - eg. give some of the event mobs devestating attacks against dragons; have a biped only magic event spell to reactivate portals etc. etc. and the introduction of dragon riding is woven into the ongoing story.

[C`gan]

Count us builders in if the portals are physically destroyed, too.

[Valornyx]

Whilst I like the idea in principle of aerial and mounted combat, it would be a herculean task to do it properly... first you'd need new mobs which fight aerially instead of running from flying dragons, you'd really need to have special attacks (probably both biped and dragon) hich could be used aerially and not against ground mobs - else nothing on the ground is safe.. New schools for both bipeds and dragons maybe .. but the real kicker is that you'd have to write a completely new AI for aerial combat. The speed at which an ancient dragon with velocity scale can fly would mean that kiting would be really easy - dash out of range and back again .. the mobs would need a whole new approach to effectively beat out both a dragon and biped working in tandem .. you could partially mitigate this using "flocks" but for someone without much knowledge of programming AI - I cannot imagine that making this really work effectively would be an easy task at all.

[Lunarya]

Whilst I like the idea in principle of aerial and mounted combat, it would be a herculean task to do it properly... first you'd need new mobs which fight aerially instead of running from flying dragons, you'd really need to have special attacks (probably both biped and dragon) hich could be used aerially and not against ground mobs - else nothing on the ground is safe.. New schools for both bipeds and dragons maybe .. but the real kicker is that you'd have to write a completely new AI for aerial combat. The speed at which an ancient dragon with velocity scale can fly would mean that kiting would be really easy - dash out of range and back again .. the mobs would need a whole new approach to effectively beat out both a dragon and biped working in tandem .. you could partially mitigate this using "flocks" but for someone without much knowledge of programming AI - I cannot imagine that making this really work effectively would be an easy task at all.

Ancients could slow down in combat

[Amecha]

I've kept on hoping for this to become part of gameplay. It would definitely make grouping and fighting easier being able to transport bipeds. As to how to transport? Have you ever been to a rodeo and watched the bull riders? Could always go that way, and if the biped can stay on for 8 seconds, they're free to ride? Joking!

Also, it shouldn't be immediately available to the dragons, but maybe create a quest to gain the knowledge required to take a rider.Obviously a quest for the dragon should happen AFTER the dragon has gained their wings, maybe 50s? And maybe a seperate quest for bipeds to complete to gain the knowledge to use dragon transportation.

Another good part would be that in order for the dragon to complete their quest to gain the right to transport the bipeds, they'd require the assistance of bipeds at some point in the quest. And the complete opposite for the biped rider quest. That way the biped and dragon are more likely to see each other as partners, rather than taxi and fare.

[CallakDW]

I like the idea of training quests for both participants, afterall, some of us dragons don't want to rattle our riders to pices.

[Goriax]

Whilst I like the idea in principle of aerial and mounted combat, it would be a herculean task to do it properly...

Perhaps, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't let them know that if it IS possible, it would be enjoyed.

first you'd need new mobs which fight aerially instead of running from flying dragons,

For the running from flying dragons -- they don't do that even now. They ignore flying dragons. The devs played with various algorithms before they settled on the current one. As for new mobs, there are a few mobs even now which could be made to fly including undead dragons, kwellan, and undead dryads. It wouldn't hurt to have more of course. Then again, they could mount all sorts of mobs on top of undead dragons. Heh, they could mount OGRES on top of undead ancient dragons. Why should only the players have dragon riding?

you'd really need to have special attacks (probably both biped and dragon) hich could be used aerially and not against ground mobs - else nothing on the ground is safe..

That's where arrows and crossbows really shine. Likewise ranged spells. They could also tweak a few things -- for example giving the dragons breath weapon (maybe not flame burst but the more normal damage weapons) a longer range.

New schools for both bipeds and dragons maybe .. but the real kicker is that you'd have to write a completely new AI for aerial combat.

To a degree of course, since it would be 3-D. How much else they had to do would depend on things like the flight model and what they wanted to happen. Right now, since dragons can hover indefinately, they could get away with little else, although I think it would work better if they killed hovering and added some new aerial only attacks (things like slashing while flying past).

The speed at which an ancient dragon with velocity scale can fly would mean that kiting would be really easy - dash out of range and back again .. the mobs would need a whole new approach to effectively beat out both a dragon and biped working in tandem .. you could partially mitigate this using "flocks" but for someone without much knowledge of programming AI - I cannot imagine that making this really work effectively would be an easy task at all.

Kiting can be beaten with the same approaches in the air as on the ground. Approaches can be combinations of the following:
1. Make the flying mobs fast. They're FLYING after all.
2. Give the mobs attacks which are at least as long ranged as that of the dragon or any biped who could ride it. Ranged attacks would probably be much more important in aerial combat, so any mob will have one.
3. If a mob can't catch an attacker after some set amount of time then it turns tail and runs (er flies) at VERY high speed.

I agree that aerial combat would be a really big addition -- bigger then anything done to date including lairs. In fact it would also have to include some other things not mentioned such as NPC flying mounts for bipeds who don't ride dragonback (griffons or pegasi perhaps) which would in turn probably mean non-flying mounts as well. And yes, there would probably be need to revisit melee combat. EVERYONE would also want a major ranged attack and no longer just for pulling. Plus there would still be the issue of flying players targeting non flying mobs which don't have a ranged attack although, if they can't do anything else, the devs could always just not allow air to ground attacks.

But I suspect it would be doable given a serious effort.

Aerial combat coupled with dragon riding would allow dragons and bipeds to cooperate and play off each other's strengths more then anything else to date. It would add a lot to the game. Heh, in some ways it would make it a wholly new game.

I agree this will probably never happen in Horizons, but if we can't discuss somewhat far out ideas here on the Suggestion board I don't know where we can. Yes it's part dreaming, but this is the place for it. Plus, now the devs know that at least some players think this would be REALLY cool to have. Something they can file away in case a situation comes up where they can put it in.

In any event, just dragon riding (without aerial combat) would be very nice to have. Even that would allow dragons and bipeds to cooperate much more and give each unique roles much more then is now possible. Given that, even simple aerial combat (only use existing mobs, don't mess with new schools and such, don't allow air to ground attacks) would be a lot of fun.

[CallakDW]

For the running from flying dragons -- they don't do that even now. They ignore flying dragons. The devs played with various algorithms before they settled on the current one. As for new mobs, there are a few mobs even now which could be made to fly including undead dragons, kwellan, and undead dryads. It wouldn't hurt to have more of course. Then again, they could mount all sorts of mobs on top of undead dragons. Heh, they could mount OGRES on top of undead ancient dragons. Why should only the players have dragon riding?

I disagree with this. As a dragon I've seen mobs run if they can't make any kind of a damage to a charactor. This is true for a flying dragon or biped mounted on a wall. Unelss they have changed this since I've last tried these tactcs, mobs WILL run if they take damage or notice an enemy but cannot DO damage to that player. This however changes if there are others in the group that are still land bound, they will simply change targetting to those still accessable.

[Tcei]

If you fly relativly low to the ground mobs will follow and attack you if they've a ranged spell or a cross/bow I've actualy been killed a few times this way. It's not untill you get almost out of visual range that they'll stop following you..most times.

[CallakDW]

If you fly relativly low to the ground mobs will follow and attack you if they've a ranged spell or a cross/bow I've actualy been killed a few times this way. It's not untill you get almost out of visual range that they'll stop following you..most times.

Again, as long as they can deal any kind of damage they will stick around.

[Tcei]

While Im thinking about it. I remember once, I was low on health. I think I was fighting snow ogres. I flew up and out over the edge of a cliff right about then the ogre did its range attack and killed me mid-air. Then I died again (re-died?) once my corpse hit the ground at the bottom of the mountain. Ended up with 2 dp's cause of it.

[Goriax]

Yea you're right. If they can deal damage they will. I hadn't been thinking about that because most of the mobs I've flown by close enough that I'd have agroed them if I'd been on the ground tended to be shorter range. Otherwise they ignore you. Oh yes, if you're fighting and then take to the air the mob runs away. I routinely fly over lots of mobs looking for places to fight and they rarely agro on me, which is what I was thinking of. Once in combat I don't usually fly away so wasn't really thinking about that. I haven't experimented a lot (really wasn't interested) so I suppose it's possible that if they're agroed on you in the air and are running after you they'd eventually go into run away mode.

The point of this is you do NOT see the mass running from flying dragons like you did soon after player dragons started flying. They only run away in specific circumstances (you're fighting them and then take to the air) which appear to me to be intended to avoid possible exploits.

This is all peripheral to the thread though. It was about changing AI for aeriial combat. There's no doubt the since players have been able to fly that devs have fiddled with the AI for how mobs behave in the vicinity of a flying dragon.

[CallakDW]

I have to say I've been agroed in flight numorous times where I had no contact priviously, seems to happen mostly by casters on the satyer islands. I end up picking up debuffs and dots before I've ever touched down sometimes, and this had to be near max range for them.

[Nambroth]

I have to say I've been agroed in flight numorous times where I had no contact priviously, seems to happen mostly by casters on the satyer islands. I end up picking up debuffs and dots before I've ever touched down sometimes, and this had to be near max range for them.

Casters and archers agro on me as I fly over too- I've had some nasty stuff cast on me before as I flew, and was unable to remove the effect or hit a heal unless I landed (which in some areas was a death sentence ). I have died in midair more times than I wish to admit! Also, Fafnir has taken me out of the air with his Scorch attack before, and I was above treetop level.

[Goriax]

I fly over the Satyr islands all the time.

You just need to gain a little more altitude.

[CallakDW]

I fly over the Satyr islands all the time.

You just need to gain a little more altitude.

Yes, but that wasn't the point, obviously if you go high enough you are going to be out of any range, but the point was that they will agro if you come anywhere in range even though you didn't attack them.

[Romirez]

In fact it would also have to include some other things not mentioned such as NPC flying mounts for bipeds who don't ride dragonback (griffons or pegasi perhaps) which would in turn probably mean non-flying mounts as well.

i would have to disagree with this... we would be emulating World of Warcraft faaaarrrr too much. and i hate WoW....just keeping the dragon players(with wings) mountable is big enough to impliment...