Original Ancient Model

[Cobal]

I really wish I still had that character height chart that showed a dragon absolutely towering over everyone else.....

http://www.ancientorder.org/gallery/...album=1&pos=37
Yay for never throwing anything away ^^

[Pharcellus]

As of yet you haven't explained a really good reason why the ancient models should revert back to their "Tested" size...

Actually, several have been offered in this thread alone. Maybe read the posts instead of harping on your own opinion?

no one said that just because it was tested on blight it has to arrive to the live servers Identical to the way it was tested.

No one said that it needed to be changed due to testing on Blight, either. It was tested; it worked fine. It was changed, and NO OFFICAL REASON WAS EVER GIVEN.

Perhaps they felt that because the model was so large and sometimes had issues entering portals and other places... that it was better off to create a smaller model.

Then they should have said that. They didn't. Testing on Blight revealed no such issues. In the final analysis, the only excuses given were subjective, based on supposed "tester" input, which wasn't any of the "testers" actually doing the "testing".

Who knows.. I care not why it was done... it was done so give it a rest already, there are other things more important to adjust then the F'n models that you can do yourself.

Sure there are things more important. I know I didn't claim otherwise. However, a model revert would be trivial. It IS wanted by a majority of folks, and there are valid reasons to do it, which including fixing cosmetics that should have been fixed long ago.

"Needing" to have the tested models on the live shards is not "needed" though apparently some folks feel they will die if it is not done.

No, no one is going to die over it, but the game might, since it is still a sore point for some folks who are holding out to subscribe (like me, for example).
It isn't the only thing I am holding out for, but it sure would mend a fence or two.

[velveeta]

No, no one is going to die over it, but the game might, since it is still a sore point for some folks who are holding out to subscribe (like me, for example).
It isn't the only thing I am holding out for, but it sure would mend a fence or two.

about this subject, i can't comment, as i have almost exclusively played a biped, but i am compelled to comment on this qoute.
i feel that if you are not returning, for whatever reason(s), then YOU are not returning. waiting for changes that may not come means this game does not have 'it', that wow factor. i am not bragging, simply stating an example of my feelings when i say that the only thing that stopped me from playing was the shutdown of my shard. even vista can't keep me away.
i think that many peeps on these forums think that things must and should stay the same forever. sorry, this can't be, not for games and not for real life. things will change, ideas will come forth, options will develop. change is inevitable - chaos and entropy are the only constants in the universe.

i am sorry, phar, if you feel this and other things are the cause of you not playing. some day, you will realize that you yourself are the reason. i just hope that horizons is still around and available when you do.

[CallakDW]

We got Kuthit form for those "oh so nasty" issues at going around. I have used Kuthit like 10 minutes in my years long whole life, maybe being bigger would give an incentive to it.

The real insentive was when you couldn't even enter a biped building whthough changing form. It was annoying, but it seemed correct to me. Now that they changed the clipping box, pretty much no matter what size you are you can still fit in a biped building, though it may be hard to see what you are doing if you use an external camera. I actually was not happy when they made this change, I was glad to have a somewhat forced and logical reason to use to change, but it seems most other players must have hated it. Now I usually only use it to clear up clutter or get a better camera view of the situation.

[Vahrokh]

Yay for never throwing anything away ^^

We are friggin dragons, we are supposed to hoard stuff

[Pharcellus]

i feel that if you are not returning, for whatever reason(s), then YOU are not returning. waiting for changes that may not come means this game does not have 'it', that wow factor. i am not bragging, simply stating an example of my feelings when i say that the only thing that stopped me from playing was the shutdown of my shard. even vista can't keep me away.

Of course, but I didn't just decide one day, out of the blue, "I'm gonna quit". I also won't just decide one day, out of the blue, "I'm gonna come back". Both decisions were based on conditions within the game and without with the company(ies) running it. So, no, it isn't as simple as you make it out to be. I still like a lot of things about the game, the problem is that I had come to DISlike more things about it. Two years ago, I walked out and closed the Horizons door behind me, completely disillusioned. Now, I have been interested (and have been for reasons I won't go into here) again. My mate is also prodding me to play again so she feels comfortable coming here and trying it out. However, she won't play until she knows that I am comfortable with returning. As such, I am here watching, and making a say about things to see if I can find that "comfort" again. So far, it hasn't come, and I am peeking with the door cracked; I haven't closed it again yet and walked away.

i think that many peeps on these forums think that things must and should stay the same forever. sorry, this can't be, not for games and not for real life. things will change, ideas will come forth, options will develop. change is inevitable - chaos and entropy are the only constants in the universe.

You're preaching to the choir, sister. This very thread is about change; change for the better. I love change for the better, don't you? It makes me more comfortable to see it happen.

i am sorry, phar, if you feel this and other things are the cause of you not playing. some day, you will realize that you yourself are the reason. i just hope that horizons is still around and available when you do.

No need to be sorry for me or anyone like me. Beyond being patronizing, you aren't part of the problem. No, I, by myself, am not the reason why I am not playing. Yes, I am not playing by my choice, but, like I said, that is an oversimplification of the situation. I will choose again to play when the game and company re-enter my "comfort zone" enough for me to bother. I don't think I am alone in that situation, either.

In the meantime, I'll watch, wait, and poke my snout through the doorjamb to see if / when it comes to pass.

[CallakDW]

I felt the same as Pharcellus when I left a few years ago, this was when EI had control. Now I'm getting exited by the movement I'm seeing. I noticed that Vi released two updates to Blight before releasing to Chaos and Order. This is somthing I've not seen for a very long time, I'm glad, it means that they are fixing stuff they found on Blight.

[Casyle]

http://www.ancientorder.org/gallery/...album=1&pos=37
Yay for never throwing anything away ^^

OOo, that brings back memories... *Other races*

I always thought Khutit form was so that we'd be able to fit into smaller spaces when Ancient. What's the point of Khutit form?

I don't need a hand to count how many players I've seen use the Khutit form anymore. NONE! There's NO POINT. All it does is weaken you.

[velveeta]

i apologise for sounding patronizing. that was not my intent, merely expressing my hopes for a long life for horizons.
i hope you find much more to return for than you need!! i have and i continue to do so.....

the fall fest, at least, is giving me a chance to run around in my pumpkin pants and troll mask, visiting cities i never have before!!

[Frith-Rae]

However, a model revert would be trivial. It IS wanted by a majority of folks, and there are valid reasons to do it, which including fixing cosmetics that should have been fixed long ago.

This is what I think the MAJOR point here is this...

There were alot of people perturbed by this "nerf out of the blue". We did beg and beg (myself personally did too) for ANY true explanation - and never got one.

It would do a *huge* amount of good for the community - dragon and bipeds - to change it back. For a dev company to go "hey you know what - maybe you're right - we'll change it back". Instead of just silence - whistling innocently - not paying attention tow hat's going on under their noises.

Its a *simple* fix. That is illustrated by the fact that it takes a player 5 minutes to do it for themselves. They have the art assets, they were once in place in game - other issues listed might take weeks or months or even years to fix - this takes maybe a day??

A day to fix a problem that created a lot of negativity - many "straw that broke the camel's back" situations - that obviously is STILL an issue (or else this thread wouldn't be this way) and is STILL int he minds of players.

A simple fix - to create a lot of POSITIVE feelings towards the company - to start to heal a lot of wounds - and to possibly convince a few other subbers to come back.

What is there to lose truly? Why do we never get a response on it??

To me THIS Is the issue - not that it may or may not be harder to click around the dragon or that it won't fit into a biped building (and I agree, it shouldn't...)

They certainly spent more dev time on the wasted (if unusual and neato) khutit form than they would putting this back!

Then the players who prefer smaller dragons, can put in the mod...and for some reason I'm betting those numbers will be lower than those who use it now.

[Fratricide]

So.. what your saying is... folks stopped playing Horizons because the oversized blight tested ancient model was not used when the ARoP went live... your joking right... you must be because anyone quiting over such a trivial matter already had more problems with the game then just a model resize.

As for the players requiring information from the Devs why things get changed.. well that isn't truly necessary.. all they have to do is change it.. it is their game that we choose to play. They do give you the option to utilize the resources-override so that you can modify your client interface quite a bit... but don't make a decision for everyone in the game when only 20% visit the forums.

[Tcei]

So.. what your saying is... folks stopped playing Horizons because the oversized blight tested ancient model was not used when the ARoP went live... your joking right... you must be because anyone quiting over such a trivial matter already had more problems with the game then just a model resize.

Generally speaking what Frith ment was that this was the last thing after a series of things a player didnt like, such as bugs, nerfs, just general changes that they didnt like, ect, that cause the player to just quit.

*shrugs* I've known people to leave over lesser issues. I myself left a game because I got sick of all the chinese ***** jokes.

[Pharcellus]

So.. what your saying is... folks stopped playing Horizons because the oversized blight tested ancient model was not used when the ARoP went live... your joking right... you must be because anyone quiting over such a trivial matter already had more problems with the game then just a model resize.

No, no one said that at all. What was said was that it was AT LEAST ONE, if not a series of issues which subtracted enough enjoyment and fulfillment out of the game to bring about the decision to quit. I don't know anyone who quit simply because of the model change, but it certainly was a significant contributing factor to many, including myself.

As for the players requiring information from the Devs why things get changed.. well that isn't truly necessary.. all they have to do is change it.. it is their game that we choose to play.

Of course. ..and I don't have to send them $13 (or $15 or $10 or whatever it is) every month, either; it isn't necessary. Well, unless they WANT it bad enough. Businesses that want your money bad enough will do what is necessary to get it.

They do give you the option to utilize the resources-override so that you can modify your client interface quite a bit... but don't make a decision for everyone in the game when only 20% visit the forums.

Sure, and the minority who don't like the big models can override them.

Oh, by the way, I think there are more people in the forums than play now, so the old "forum minority" excuse doesn't really work any more.

As for making decisions, *we* can't make any decisions; only the devs can. We can only ask that they choose to do so. One thing IS for sure, though; if they do, they'll be damned; if they don't they will be damned. However, since that goes for any decision they make, the smart money will be on which decision damns them the least. If 80% want/wouldn't mind the old models, why should the 20% which don't force the ones who do to override THEIRS?

[CallakDW]

I don't need a hand to count how many players I've seen use the Khutit form anymore. NONE! There's NO POINT. All it does is weaken you.

There isn't really now. The original point was to make it possible to fit into biped buildings, but I think too many players complained how annoying it was to actually have to shift into kutit form to access biped buildings, so the devs changed the clipping block around dragons so that they could fit in no matter what form they used. As I said above, I was not happy when they did this, I liked having a reason to use this form, and liked that other players had to do the same.

What would have really made things interesting is if they ever got around to dungeons and there were places that a dragon simply couldn't fit full size, and was forced to fight in Kutit form, and thus less effectively, requiring different group tactics.

I personally also use it to "blend in" so to speak in gatherings that include bipeds or there is simply not a lot of space, and my (visual) bulk is too clumsy.

[Amerelium]

a...dragon...ain't...meant...to...fit...inside...a ...house.

someone mention an 'oversized' ancient tested on blight. No, wrong. This waas the original size, seen in the NPCs since time meant sh*t. It's STILL the size of the NPCs.

In any event - 77% want the originals restored. We can also remove those that don't play dragons from the equation. The people have spoken...

[Justa Mirage]

I read through this thread, my only thoughts are these:

1: As both Justa and Flatspin, I use setscale to reduce dragons even at adult status. It's easier to battle a mob when I can see it or depend on my select nearest enemy key. This means, even with bigger models, I will still be reducing the same amount of objects, so I don't see how it would "Wear out my setscale key"

2: Graphically, it was supposed to be the model for Ancients. People got paid money to made an Ancient look... well... Ancient! And the old ancient models aren't that much bigger than the present ancient models.

3: I have actually had a few people ask me if I was "Ancient" so there must be just enough simularity in height stature to confuse some players when viewed from a biped's perspective.

I don't really see a problem assigning the graphic asset for the ancient model back to the larger size. I have no ego to please, nor does it make me feel uber, and if I can't fit into a house or cave, that's what the khutit form is for... (or Setscale for those that still use it)

[Dremora]

Bumping this a little.

Keep those votes and opinions coming!

[Kodey]

I thought I would add this for actual size reference.

Original Ancient Model:


Current Ancient Model:



Shows the size difference. I think I am neutral on this topic. I don't really care about the size, but as you can see, the head on the New Model wasn't adjusted. It needs to be taken down a little bit.

When they resized the models, everything was shrunk globally. Which means the head and neck were shrank and caused them to be further apart from each other.

[Lunarya]

there are other things more important to adjust then the F'n models that you can do yourself.

Actually, since we already have the file, It could be as added as quickly as the player emotes were added in. So it wouldn't be a problem to add them in.

I've already stated I was for original size, because I do not see a huge difference in the sizes myself, I had to stand under one to see a difference, and it seems more people want the original size back because they could see under them, the fixed neck, etc.

I'm sorry, but I have not seen a good argument against original ancient size yet.

[Kodey]

I don't really see any argument with this. Some are irritated that ancients were too big, some are irritated that they're now too small. You can change the size and model back to original, and the apparent minority on these forums that don't want the original dragon model back, can use /setscale if there was another change. There is a fix for both parties and should make them both happy.

Of course these forums don't speak for the entire population, as a certain percent actually reads/posts here, but either way, the two parties can do steps to correct it for themselves. And yes, its only client-side but thats all that should matter, right? The people that don't want to see large dragons are just going to change it back to the current models now, so its like, whats the point? *shrugs* If you look at both of the pictures I posted, the size difference isn't that different.. You could come back with, "If its not that different, then why not go back to the original, eh". I don't know. Hehe. :P I'm neutral in the size issue.

This dead horse couldn't get any bloodier from beatings. Heheh.