Favoritism

[Fratricide]

I'm curious as to whether or not this plot increase happened when the 129 patch moved over from blight.... If it was.. the plot size increase could have happened then. If it did happen then, then it would be fairly definite that it has been resized well before the past couple weeks.. just not realized until more recently.

[Landowyn]

I know the plot was at 100x100 for the entire time that PMS/EIEIO owned the game, and was still 100x100 a few weeks ago when I paid for my sub for the first time in over a year. So the change must have come in with the patch to live.

The daggone thing is three plots over from mine and is footsteps from the incoming portal. I think I would have noticed if the change was made during the Bowman regime, and this event makes me more than thrilled that he's gone -- something I wouldn't have said a year ago.

Hal, whatever you think you are owed, you should hash it out outside the game. You have convicted yourself of wrongdoing by your own words as far as I am concerned.

[Landowyn]

You are spot on target Phar. This has been policy in every game I've ever worked with on staff. The perception that developers or owners will reward buddies, chums or employees in-game is the tip of an iceberg that can sink the ship.

This is one of the reasons I object so much to this thread being sent to rants. It needs to be seen by community in general, many of whom never look at this category.

Moving it, to me, smacks a bit of "hiding it under the carpet" (sweeping it under the rug??). It's bad news all the way around.

In general, it is a bad idea to change something in-game to reflect an out-of-game situation. It is akin to metagaming, and can be a very bad thing when done by game developers/staff/gamemasters/etc.

What, with things like the BoB fiasco in EvE Online, players are very sensitive to impropriety by developers towards other players within the context of the game.

Some time ago, I headed up the staff at another MMOG. Staff were held to very strict standards, and I made it verboten for the other admins to take out capital ships for stupid things like "impressing the newbs". I had one admin not heed the rule, and he got reprimanded for it. He didn't try to unbalance the game, but a rule is a rule, and there was a very good reason for its existence.

In this situation, the more appropriate course of action would have been to compensate you out-of-game in some way. Buy you lunch for the month; take you around to see the local sights, free subscription, whatever. "Compensating" you with in-game privilege and consideration was probably not the best idea. Even if he was doing areas anyway, it should have been part of a more general plan and not focused specifically towards you. The fact that he did so reinforces the appearance of impropriety, giving it legs.

Personally (and I don't expect you or anyone else to hold to this standard; it's just the way I would have handled it), I would have politely declined the offer, not to be ungrateful, but to be fair towards everyone else playing the game.

[Velea]

Landowyn, I'm sorry that you disagree that what you are writing here is a rant. However, plain and simply put, the whole thread is "He got greener grass than I did." It's a rant, a complaint.

I would also like to remind you that the forum rules state:

Discussions regarding moderation of topics, board rules, or the posts of others should be in personal messages to Horizons CS only. Forum posts questioning moderation will be considered as “moderator baiting� and will be removed immediately. The ability to post on the forums is a privilege, not a right, and moderators have the final say in what is and is not acceptable. Repeatedly posting on the public forums regarding moderation will result in forum accounts being closed.

If you, or anyone else, wishes to further discuss the original topic, then the thread remains open for discussion, however.

[Tokoz]

There's a cow near a plot in Heather, and some carrots near the dragon lair.

I'm not saying any more than that.

[Poppi]

I own one of the two plots in question on Blight, its size was increased in July 2006.

[LOVWYRM]

favoritism- this word alone makes me angry.
It is not even a presumption but a general statement.

If my language was not that deficient , I would start a philosophic discussion
about envy, distrust, malevolence.

[Landowyn]

I own one of the two plots in question on Blight, its size was increased in July 2006.

I assume this means that when the Blight Delta finally made it to live the change went to live. Sort of like a time bomb

[gopher65]

It's all a plot I tell you! A BIG HUGE PLOT! *shifty eyes* >_>

This board needs some sort of reputation counter so we can reward such statements.

[Pharcellus]

I'm curious as to whether or not this plot increase happened when the 129 patch moved over from blight.... If it was.. the plot size increase could have happened then. If it did happen then, then it would be fairly definite that it has been resized well before the past couple weeks.. just not realized until more recently.

It's a mute point now, as Hal admitted that it was part of some "compensation" given to him from David himself. I think that is the issue that Landowyn is troubled over, and I can't say I disagree with that someone having that feeling in this case. It's just something that is kind of a no-no in the game industry, and often causes more problems down the road, hence.

[Deth]

I have to agree. If he wanted to show someone how the world changing worked. he should have done it with a plot in the area he was working or maybe even a random plot or make a new random hill some where. If he wanted to give someone something for showing up for a tour or what ever then give them a hat or a mug or somthing.

[Steelclaw]

Hmm... The plot thickens.
Nah.

I don't see what the big deal is. Four plots got resized... upwards. That means up to 12 people got a small gift. (Or an annoyance if they can't stand seeing bare ground... decon and replan time!)

Is Hal's character any more powerful than it was? No. Did the change occur at someone else's expense? (was someone else's plot reduced?) No. Would those plots be resized anyway? Probably. Will those plots stay the same size after their owners sell them? Yes.

This isn't favoritism. This is complaining about who gets the 'wider' half of the back seat. If you want an idea of what favoritism is, go ask some old-timers about Darkstaff.

[Deth]

No he is more "powerful". Becuase of the upgrade he now has saved 20% of what he has built +x amount of coin that would have been needed if he had moved to a bigger plot that gave him +x amount of room. SO say he has +x amount of storage that he did not have before or maybe +x amount of skill on a shop upgrade. That he got as a favor from a Dev.

In my eyes yes it is a small thing but it is still something I have to agree the devs should not start doing. As where would they stop?

[LaughingOtter]

It's a mute point now, as Hal admitted that it was part of some "compensation" given to him from David himself.

It's 'moot', BTW...

The point that is being ignored in the rush to grab torches & pitchforks is that Hal's plot is only one of many that David resized. He'd been doing it for months, well before Hal's internship was even discussed, and not once had anyone thought it improper. Yes, David wanted to do something neat for Hal, as he did whenever a player came to the Tulga offices. Hal got to watch as David enlarged his plot and one of the neighboring ones.

It wasn't game-breaking, it didn't confer any significant advantage in gameplay, and it wasn't even a unique gift. Sure, it was a nice goodie, but the neat part was watching while it was done.

Favoritism would be something game-breaking, something that conferred a significant advantage and which was unique to Hal. If David had given Hal a Boar's Hide Mask, or T6 gear, or rebuilt Hal's plot with finished T6 structures, then I'd say that calling favoritism would be deserved. He didn't, and it's not.

Again, David did nothing for Hal that he hadn't already done for a great many other players. Hal just got to watch it being done, that's all.

[Landowyn]

I take it means that you have been shown some favoritism as well, LO? Defending this type of dev/customer interaction is tantamount to condoning it.

Image a dev in Lord of the Rings added a couple of extra storage chests to his pal's house? Imagine a WOW developer giving his buddy more vault storage than anyone else can have? Seems like a small thing until the dev realizes, "Well, no one threw up a stink about that, so I'm gonna give you the Sword of 1000 truths" or the "Dagger of Orc Annihilation," take your pick."

Go ask these questions on the WOW, DAoC or LOTR boards and see what people say.

[Steelclaw]

Image a dev in Lord of the Rings added a couple of extra storage chests to his pal's house? Imagine a WOW developer giving his buddy more vault storage than anyone else can have? Seems like a small thing until the dev realizes, "Well, no one threw up a stink about that, so I'm gonna give you the Sword of 1000 truths" or the "Dagger of Orc Annihilation," take your pick."

The immediate difference between these examples and the plot size increase is that the benefit is not isolated to a single player. If Hal moves, his former plot won't shrink, nor will the other three plots, nor will the four plots on the other two servers.

I can see a distinction between real favoritism and game wide improvements initiated by a player. Can you?

[LaughingOtter]

I take it means that you have been shown some favoritism as well, LO? Defending this type of dev/customer interaction is tantamount to condoning it.

****, you got me. When we visited Tulga, David made Alla & I a little patch of Sonoran desert with a couple of Saguro cactus in the middle of the Tazoon desert. What I'd asked for was public crucifixion of exploiters who had been permanently banned, but that would have required new art assets.

Other than that, no, not one single in-game consideration from Tulga. Go pound sand.

Image a dev in Lord of the Rings added a couple of extra storage chests to his pal's house? Imagine a WOW developer giving his buddy more vault storage than anyone else can have? Seems like a small thing until the dev realizes, "Well, no one threw up a stink about that, so I'm gonna give you the Sword of 1000 truths" or the "Dagger of Orc Annihilation," take your pick."

To quote myself,

Favoritism would be something game-breaking, something that conferred a significant advantage and which was unique to Hal. If David had given Hal a Boar's Hide Mask, or T6 gear, or rebuilt Hal's plot with finished T6 structures, then I'd say that calling favoritism would be deserved. He didn't, and it's not.

Your examples above ARE favoritism, because they do confer a significant advantage and - more importantly - are unique to the player in question. You're ignoring the fact that what Hal gained was not unique to him and that many, many other players gained a far greater percentage of land than Hal did.

The problem here is not that Hal gained something; the problem is that you didn't. If David had picked your plot to expand, you wouldn't have raised even the slightest complaint. In fact, you have not said a single word against even one of the other players who also had their plot sizes increased. Obviously, the plot size increase itself can't be the issue or you'd be railing against everyone who was affected. You're not. You're screaming about Hal and only Hal. If you had actually wanted to know what happened to the plots, you would have just asked. You didn't. You started the thread off with a specific accusation of favoritism directly targeting Hal. No questions, no investigation, no interest in the facts of the matter. Nope, you jumped straight to the lynching.

[Corvinus]

The problem here is not that Hal gained something; the problem is that you didn't. If David had picked your plot to expand, you wouldn't have raised even the slightest complaint. In fact, you have not said a single word against even one of the other players who also had their plot sizes increased. Obviously, the plot size increase itself can't be the issue or you'd be railing against everyone who was affected. You're not. You're screaming about Hal and only Hal. If you had actually wanted to know what happened to the plots, you would have just asked. You didn't. You started the thread off with a specific accusation of favoritism directly targeting Hal. No questions, no investigation, no interest in the facts of the matter. Nope, you jumped straight to the lynching.

tsk tsk is this quote not attacking another poster ?
Re-reading the OP no mention was made of the plot owners name , in fact the owner of said plot owned up in later posts.
I am now left wondering if there is a clique here at work.

[Landowyn]

The problem here is not that Hal gained something; the problem is that you didn't. If David had picked your plot to expand, you wouldn't have raised even the slightest complaint. In fact, you have not said a single word against even one of the other players who also had their plot sizes increased. Obviously, the plot size increase itself can't be the issue or you'd be railing against everyone who was affected. You're not. You're screaming about Hal and only Hal. If you had actually wanted to know what happened to the plots, you would have just asked. You didn't. You started the thread off with a specific accusation of favoritism directly targeting Hal. No questions, no investigation, no interest in the facts of the matter. Nope, you jumped straight to the lynching.

Wrong, Laughing Otter. I would not have taken such considerations. As a past GM and Guide in various games, I know what things like this can do to a community. If you knew me, you'd know I lean more toward giving away time and money and resources than begging for them from higher ups.

You are hanging your hat on the fact that other plots were increased in size, but I can only compare it to Order, where one is owned and the other is owned by a player I haven't seen a a good long time. And don't forget that the player in question has admitted that the CEO stretched his plot as a reward for his volunteer participation. This is what I object to. If I want more space I'll go out and buy another plot/account. I am bothered more by the implication that players can gain advantage by brown-nosing the game's administrators/owners. I can't blame the current ownership for this, but for Bowman's part in it: Thumbs way down.

So go pound some of your own sand.

[Ophelea]

Wow, nothing like a community that eats itself for breakfast.

Folks, Hal's (and the other plots) were increased before Hal ever got a desk. David resized plots whenever he got tired of building areas.

In the time I was in office (I have no idea how many when I worked offsite), no fewer than 8 different groups of players came to visit. There was never a single player and the groups were often 4 or more.

Every time, EVERY time, David showed off the world building tools because quite frankly, they rocked. And if they so wished, and if it were POSSIBLE, he increased the size of their plots - AND EVERY PLOT AROUND THEM.

LO and his wife didn't get a plot size increase, they got a uniquely designed piece of land.

In a zone no one can enter, there's a tank in the water and jet in the air because David and I had gone slap-happy one day. It's what I asked for.



As the former community manager, I can tell you that I forwarded hundreds of requests for fixes to plots - from lack of resources, to size, to broken water - and David worked on every single one of them. THEN HE UPSIZED THE PLOT.

So, everyone on all three servers (and Unity if they were receiving the patch) benefitted.

Cry fowl all you want, it wasn't favoritism. It's who David is...he likes to do nice things for the players and this is the one thing he could do that didn't cause a balance issue and he would have done ANYWAY.

If Hal hadn't told you what happened, you'd never know. Think about that?