(Discussion) Spell Line - Ideas for Improvements

[Menkure]

The changes made to the spell timers and fixing the linking of tiered spell timers is but the first of many many changes and fixes to help improve and expand gameplay.

One of the many things that the linked timers has brought up is the lack of "completed" magic lines. As an example, Flame and Energy lines have a full set of spells, whereas ice and mind don't have nearly as many spells.


Thus, I'm starting a discussion thread for people to offer input and insight on what they feel may be needed to improve the casting experience... Don't just limit your post to what needs to be fixed or changed, but draw from the good things that Horizons does as well.


The magic lines do not just contain ice, fire, and energy.. Druid spells, Mind, as well as dragon specific spells are also a big part of this... so please, this isn't just limited to biped spells here. Everyone is welcome to comment.

Also, in order for this topic to be the best help to the developers, posts need to be kept on topic.



Lets see what we can come up with.

-Menkure

[Deth]

For the Primal line I would like to see the following

Tearing Winds - Primal DOT and Primal Debuff or maybe a Melee Debuff as they seem to like haveing the opposite type of debuff for dragon abilities.

Shredding Winds - upgrade of Tearing Winds

I would also like to see a set of buffs like our resist/ward buffs that increase the skill or maybe better the damage of spells. I.E. Like our arcane resist/ward buff that effect fire/ice/energy (I think those are what it covers) that add damage or skill to all three acrane caster skills.

[Salis]

Like suggested many times before.
I would love it to see dragons being able to use all the biped spells aswell.
Now before you cry foul. let me expand on this idea.
First of all I find it highly illogical that I can create all the biped spells fully teched, but am unable to learn how to cast them.
But I do feel that there should be some limitations:
As with dragoncrafting we should gain less points in one spell skill needed for casting those spells as the specific biped spell school gains. So only +8 or so instead of 10 or 11.
On the other hand we should still be able to cast a fully teched spell of any school. But should need to use boosters for this on our scales and claws to gain the required amount of skill level to cast said spell.

It would immediately solve the big problem dragons have lack of spells to cast.

I can imagine that some will say. Great another thing dragons are good at. We need to level ump schools to obtain the same.
If that is a problem for some and VI has time for this, maybe a solution could be provided that dragons need to gain the necessary skill not by leveling Dragon but by performing quests which provide us with a mastery that give like +80 to flame, or +80 to mind, just like the mastery abilities for dragon crafting.

Ofcourse we also need the techniques to boost our scales, so we can be good in one specific school. This i contrast to the bipeds who can eventually become masters of all.

Salis

[Arzel Rashemi]

Well as far as dragon spells, here is a couple of realistic suggestions:

1. could be to lessen the spell recycle times and casting times just a little.

2. or, not sure if this is a spell line, but it would certainly be useful to have as a dragon spellcaster. Give dragons the ability to multicast 1 and/or perfect spell.

3. Perhaps not that I expect this one, some sort of a Primal based nuke similar to Firey Strike.

4. a DOT spell would certainly be nice, or perhaps a primal based root spell.

[Casyle]

Summoning Spells - Simply needs more spells! They don't have to be damage based, but we've got TWO, count 'em TWO spells to use. *Not counting that JOKE of an "epic" spell, Shining Blades*

Ice - Damage spells! Ice Hammer *Summoning* and Ice Bomb are the only damage spells in the Ice line. It makes hunting fire-based creatures really annoying since most of my spells, as a mage, are fire based.

Energy - Again, attack spells! All I have as an Arcane class is Energy Strike and Energy Bomb. By the by, as a Wizard, why didn't we ever get a Group Energy Defense ability? I got Group Fire and Group Ice as mage, and even Group Mind as Sorceror, but no Group Energy Defense?

[Zexoin]

For dragons

An equivalent to energy and fiery strike (two would be nice). Maybe not a rooting spell, but a spell to slow enemies down, or stun them for 7-8 seconds.
I'd say a few debuffs too, and maybe one instant healing spell, instead of one of the breezes.
All primal based of course.

[Justa Mirage]

I would like to see the "Lasting Embers quest" burning embers crystal either have a higher % chance of working or 100% chance of working...

We all know how accurate our breath weapon is /sarcasm off.

Would be nice to have the DOT from that go off more often.

More Gift spells for Dragons! and Rez spells!

bipeds should have slower cooldown periods for higher level spells vs. the lower level ones, and things like "Epic Spells" that take freaking 20 minutes to recharge, and unless you have taken your 36 levels of mage, only has 1 damage and can MISS your opponent (and does so often without perfect spell). and even with PS and MC, a 60th level Gold Rage out damages an epic spell and has a 1 1/2 minute timer. For something like dark cyclone, you have to be 75th druid or 96th Ranger or other class to cast it. (not to mention 36 levels of mage) to get close to a 60th level dragon Gold Rage.

It's almost a must to have 36 levels of mage for a biped just for the triple damage / no miss ability for any of your normally cast spells.

I like the previous poster's idea of having that ability for Dragons, unfortunately their list of castable spells and the damage they do aren't really that great for a triple damage / no miss attack.

[Drevar]

I think one thing we need to steer away from is simply adding in more AoEs in all the lines to replace the lost unlinked timers. It was removed for both consistancy and gameplay imbalance. Just giving the lost spells new icons is not a solution.

The spell lines, as well as schools need to be defined solidly. I would rather see schools defined and non-masterable abilities added to further establish roles for each school. I don’t want to remove choice, continue your quest to level all adventure schools to 100, more power too you! I do, in fact want to encourage making a choice. Being able to do anything you want is not a choice, it is being spoiled. Choose which role you are going to play for this session. If your group needs a healer, you should be a Healer, not spending your time throwing perfect multicast Thunders. If you want crowd control change to Sorcerer and dominate the battlefield, nothing moves or breathes without your consent! Don’t, however, stand there and complain that you can’t do enough damage with your 3 measly teched bombs. <mini-rant off>

As far as spell lines: Is nature intended to be for damage, support, or crowd control? Right now it’s a combination of all. Spirit is a pretty much standalone and well filled out with spells with a defined theme, hurt you heal me. Blight is debuffs. Life and Augmentation are pretty obvious. Once nature is defined more strictly and tweaked to that definition, the Priest lines appear pretty well set. The Nature line may well be left alone as a mix and simply tweak the individual Nature adventure schools with abilities that synch with their fortes. I would just suggest that in any Adventure School pass we look very closely at further limiting access to various spell lines. The nature AoEs and stuns were and are still a crutch for other priest class schools, as is Spirit in a BIG way.

Flame and Energy we know are for straight up damage. More AoE abilities for Mage or Wizard might be nice, but not more general access spells. Ice and mind appear to be pretty much CC and Sorceror abilities augment the weak spell lines. These don’t appear to be intended to be big damage lines, so not certain more kaboom needs to go in these. Ice could maybe have more defensive uses like a wall of ice, etc. That leaves summoning, the redheaded step child of the Arcane schools. The abilities of Conjurer and KNOC are pretty impressive, but the spell line might as well not even exist. We need to figure out what this line is supposed to do before we can start throwing new spells into it.

Except for the distinct lack of buffs for Primal, I don’t see any outstanding issues with the spell line. The casting delays could use a little love, though this can already be improved with delay altering scales and those yummy gummy maggots. Gold Burst will go a long way to helping the Primal/Power heavy dragons. (probably throwing lighter fluid all over everything but perhaps Gold Burst could be a medium yield point blank AoE instead of a supercharged single target ability?)

More input please!

Drev

[Dhalin]

For Dragons...

1). More Rez, Please. One Rez, at Lv100, Quested, 5k Hoard, 60min recast is Not enough. Nowhere near enough. Any biped can get several rezzes if they so wished, dragons don't have that *option*.

2). At least one Instant Heal casted spell. Primal Instant Heal ability is good, but not enough. You want to lump all dragons into one school, but yet you give us only three weak breeze spells, one breeze ability, and one instant heal ability. Not enough, again. Especially not when the only decent breeze is on a 5 minute timer, as is the instant heal. I'd put this Instant Heal spell on, say, a 30sec recast.

3). More Dragon Buffs. We currently only have 3 buff spells: Countercheck Primal (which nobody uses, because there are very few, if any mobs, that actually cast Primal Spells in the entire game), Promote Vitality, and True Grit. Okay, that's all in good, but where are our Speed+ spells? Alacrity Spells? Armor spells? Primal+ spells? We shouldn't have to rely on bipeds for this stuff. Bipeds don't rely on us, why do we have to rely upon them?

4). Gifts. We currently only have ONE gift. We need more. Bipeds get tons of Gifts, so many, that they can choose what gifts they want on at any given time to tailor to any given situation, and dragons have to run the little buggers down to ask for gifts to be casted on them.

5). A Gold Rage-like ability that is Primal-Based. Currently, Helians really get the short end of the stick, as one of the dragon's most defining abilities, Gold Rage, is Tooth and Claw-based. A Spellcasting Helian who wants to specialize in being a mage, gets shafted pretty hard here. My GF plays a spellcasting Helian, and her Gold Rage can barely do what my (I'm a Lunus) -Ravage- does. That's if it actually hits.

6). While we're on the subject of getting shafted, those breezes and Instant Heal as a Lunus, does jack for me. I might as well not even have the stupid things, to be honest. Could we increase the raw power of these spells and abilities, but decrease the effectiveness of the Primal Skill on them? That way, you give better equalization between Melee and Mage dragons, in how much they can heal. A Lunus Dragon has to pound his enemy flat, because he just simply cannot endure long fights because his breeze spells heal for such pitiful amounts, that it is ridiculous. Instant Heal can be barely a drop in the bucket too, and I'm only Lv54.. what is it gonna be like when I am Lv100, and my Instant Heal is way back on whatever the last quest puts it at, like what, Instant Heal VI? V? I bet it wouldn't even heal 10% of my HP in that case...

7) That brings me to my next point... could we please have the Dragon Quest lines finished?

[Magfuddle]

Ice CC ? ... now I only have two CC spells instead of 5 (due to linking of Ice Shackle timers across Tiers)

I am in the process of relearning (having been absent for two years) my casting cycle with this restriction.

With social creatures I am now not able to deal with groups of 3 anymore. With solo creatures I can't kite in the same way I used to ... killing a mob 5 levels above me with kiting may have been overpowered but it was a real thrill knowing that if an ice shackle was resisted (and it was often enough) that I was susceptible to a one hit death ! Now its impossible to even contemplate attempting. I pull an add and I am running now.

With 2 CC spells (and one of them producing a massive fire resist debuff) I am now finding myself standing still not casting damage spells until close to the end of the CC spell timer. I don't think that is the way a mage should function.

I can't stay in melee range of any melee mob 10 levels below me and expect to survive - an additional CC for an Ice mage would be appreciated - maybe a slowing debuff ?

[Hasai]

I'd be happy if dragon spells, abilities, and other such just had another tier or two.

.

[fireblade]

Thinking about it an idea that had been at back of mind for quite a while is a Horde based Gift/Ability

The way it would work is that when the Gift/ability is active you gain bonuses
based on what "magic" items you have put into your horde

im not entirely sure about best % for this but something along the lines of

1% of sum of enhancements on hoarded items (20)
2% (40)
3% (60)

etc.

with a maximum limit of how much you can get on each skill/attribute

e.g you have hoarded items that give you sum of 2000 in a skill (6% at 100) is 120 point bonus

not having played my dragon in a while im not sure but think that might be a bit much so have to have a suitable maximum for that level

not sure maybe 1 point every 2 lvls for skills so at lvl 100 is limited to a 50 point bonus

[Guaran]

On the topic of Dragon Gift, all they need to do there is add the level 90 quest for Dragon's Gift V, which has been MIA.

[Casyle]

While I'm thinking about it, there are two changes I'd like to see.

Give us more powerful versions of Burning Sky. Burning Sky is only a tier II spell. More powerful versions, or even just a teir III or IV version, would help bombers a lot.

Fix Shining Blades! It's supposed to be an Epic Spell for crying out loud, yet my teir III Flame/Energy/Ice bombs do more damage! It's far weaker than the other Epic Spell, Dark Cyclone, and not only that, unlike Dark Cyclone, Shining Blades can't even be multi-cast.

[Casyle]

Oh, and look at the recycle times on some of these spells/abilities. I've never seen so many 10+ minute recycle times.

AC 2 did spells and abilities like HZ, but you didn't see 10 minute recycle times that often. When you did the ability usually lasted at least half of that 10 minutes.

I just got Banish Armor and was excited until I saw that it lasted for 30 seconds, which is fine, but has a 10 minute recycle?! C'mon! Fusion Burn allows you to do Ethereal damage and it's only on a 2 minute recycle.

Please, when you're looking at spells/abilities, consider reducing some of those 10 minute recycle times.

[Oakleif]

Dragon spells would be completely rounded out with two additions.
1) a "slow" spell with about a 30 second duration, or a complete "root" with a 15 second duration that we could use to hold mobs at a range or slow down their getting to us while we cast the two debuffs and start the damaging spells. As is, I get the pull in for free then one ability or spell while the mob is charging, then its wacking on me before the third spell can go off.
2) the equivalent to gold rage and silver strike using the Primal ability.

[Kulamata]

A little beside the topic, and I apologize. Nor is it an original idea. Still....

I'd like to see the Gifts and Buffs be castable without regard to level. The effect should be level-dependent, but the casting not so. Thus I could cast Crown of Thorns V on a level 17, and the damage that it caused would be the same as if I had cast CoT I. Or Alacrity V, with the same effect as if I had cast Alacrity I.

I thought that the changes that discouraged multi-tier grouping were a big step backwards, and making this change to the spells would help. And it would cut down a bit of the spell book clutter, as did the linkage changes.

And after all, I can cast a heal of any level on anyone; why not a buff?

[Vermithraxx]

The changes made to the spell timers and fixing the linking of tiered spell timers is but the first of many many changes and fixes to help improve and expand gameplay.

-Menkure

It's been over 3 months since this posting and that badly thought out nerf, any ETA on when any of those many changes might happen?

[Greenclaw1]

Talking of spells. It would be nice if they could put all those great spell effect eye candy that was shown in trailers when Horizons was coming up to is pre mature retial release. Unless they've already have since I've been gone awhile. They truely did look neat.

[tramsan]

Those are for the epic spells, and are pretty big tasks to put in the game with everything that's around them... There are already three of them ingame, and hopefully more will be put in as we go along.