I have a question

[Teto Frum]

Ive read lots about pride and little about prejudice on this thread. Do we not fight the same enemy. This is why history is doomed to repeat itself , for as our enemy falls , it will only be a matter of time before one of us aspires to be better than the other. This is what created our current enemy and im sure the one before him. *glances arround crowd* Seems some already have their sights set on the new order of turning our races into classes.

To those who post IC or OOC consider this as either to me.


Hmmm horizons II the aegis have fallen join us for all out war as the living races battle pvp to enslave each other.

[LaughingOtter]

Seems some already have their sights set on the new order of turning our races into classes.

Hmmm horizons II the aegis have fallen join us for all out war as the living races battle pvp to enslave each other.

Um, what? Where did you come up with that idea?

[Tcei]

*shrugs* Sometimes I dont get why people seem to think that in a game all the races should have and always have gotten along great and held hands, ect.
There are references both in-game and out that dragons once were the dominating race. If they didnt enslave humans then it was very nearly so. There's a small village near tazoon were the humans speak about being under the dragons. Speak with many of the npc dragons, particularly those of the Lunus faction and they'll say the same.

Racial tensions have always existed in Istaria, the reason we dont have all out war-fare is because of the mutual threat of the Aegis. Because of that there was a peace-treat of sorts agreed upon and signed by all the races that they wouldnt out right kill each other off atleast until the Aegis has been destroied. That's not to say that all races will get along all the time, nor that some sneaky and very underhanded things wont happen from time to time - encluding slavery.

Factor in that dragons in Hz are viewed much like dragons in popular fantasy, in that they belive theirselves to be the strongest, wisest, most powerful creatures, next too the gods. They tend to be very vain, and prideful as a result, and look down upon the "lesser" races as a result. It doesnt matter if this is technicaly true or not, its just how dragons view theirselves.

[Fratricide]

Dragons are superior in every way to bipeds, which is what qualifies them to lead and teach bipeds in the first place.

Hey... Wheres my Dragon instruction??

[CallakDW]

Ive read lots about pride and little about prejudice on this thread. Do we not fight the same enemy. This is why history is doomed to repeat itself , for as our enemy falls , it will only be a matter of time before one of us aspires to be better than the other. This is what created our current enemy and im sure the one before him. *glances arround crowd* Seems some already have their sights set on the new order of turning our races into classes.

To those who post IC or OOC consider this as either to me.


Hmmm horizons II the aegis have fallen join us for all out war as the living races battle pvp to enslave each other.

Speaking OOC:
You really have to understand, those who roleplay don't really want to roleplay in a place that everyone gets along. I've said this before but the reson the game and lore was designed with racial tensions is to make roleplay interesting, and give reasons for sertain events and conflicts. It gives players a chance to act a role that they wouldn't normally in life.

Speaking IC:
*Nods my head in agreement, though sadly, knowing that without the agis, things would deteriorate gradually, one disagreement leading to another, also knowing that sometimes wars are started over the dumbest things.*

[peladon]

.
.
Helians may regard bipeds as acceptable company, but they are never, ever seen as anything but lesser creatures. Dragons are superior in every way to bipeds, which is what qualifies them to lead and teach bipeds in the first place.
.
.

My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.

Elder, least and less I am, and thus it is. Two legs I have known, aye, and many. And have all those sat before mine eye as lesser? No indeed. I have danced war at the side of the Kwinn, and the Carinde, and of all most dear and most oft the Lightning. Are any of these lesser to this Fool? Not ever so.

But I am a poor dragon and a warrior of no note.

I have set my hand to making, and many things I have made. And are there things my claw may make that a two leg may not? Some few. And are there such my claw may not compass, but those of two legs may craft? Oh, indeed and greatly so.

Elder, I must stand to a part thy words would set aside. But as is known, least I am and less. Nobody and Nothing ever save those Five... but no matter.

I am a poor dragon, little of skill and less of wit. And I set no mark of mine against any other, nor any mark of theirs against me. Save in those matters of Law and its Binding... but that is as it must be.

I have seen this thing the two legs call ' bowing'. Heh... it is not a thing that dragon scales and from find fitting or indeed possible... And some have made this... I am told ' courtesy'... to that which is Sephiranoth. And this I have spoken, once and again and will more.

' Bow to none, nor bend any knee. For ye be none of better and sure none of less than any other that wakes. Rather, keep thine eye ever to the far Horizon, for their waits thy coming glory and the coming Foe both.'.

I have heard two legs speak of hunted and eaten draku. I have heard those of the winds talk of slave two leg and of slain two legs and of... of many things.

And some have reason, or think this so, and some have pride, and think this meet and some have simple joy in other's ire and spluttered anger.

PFAH.

THERE. IS. A. FOE.

THERE. IS. A. BOND.

THERE. IS. _NONE_. YET. OF. VICTORY.

Those each race sets in trust have given word and Law that each race be Bound in harmony till ever the Aegis is aged and gone and rended and ruin.

WE ARE EACH ONE AND ALL LESS THAN WE MUST BE TILL THIS IS SO.

And none less or greater than any other.

If one babe, one youngling, cries lost in the night for Foe-torn family, or dies to Aegis bane, then let any who find themselves ' better', or mighty set forth their case. For least I am, and less, and I WILL NOT HEAR.

Fool I am and none of note. And let these words be set aside by those who find it meet to do so. For then they mark their own nature and their own worth, or so these old eyes will mark it.

Where Thunder rolls, where Lightning strikes, there are only Foe and those not Foe. And no other mark is needed. And I have no fear the Lightning would take these words ill spoken in her name as well as mine.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Sonea]

In reply to Heather's thought: "I don't quite get it, its ok for dragons to enslave bipeds and not ok for bipeds to enslave dragons?"

The answer to this is simple:

Slavery is not ok.

Those who believe otherwise should heed the words of Theodore Weld:

".. slavery is a curse. Whoever denies this, his lips libel his heart. Try him: clank the chains in his ears, and tell him they are for him. Give him an hour to prepare his wife and children for a life of slavery. Bid him make haste and get ready their necks for the yoke, and their wrists for the coffle chains, then look at his pale lips and trembling knees, and you have nature's testimony against slavery."

Being stronger than another does not make you better.
Being smarter does not make you superior.
Having more coin in your pouch than another does not give you the right to take advantage of the one who has less.

One who sees him/her/itself as better than others and yields to the temptation of taking advantage of them, is actually the loser. That one is truly the weaker, has the personal deficiency, and demonstrates moral turpitude.

There is a saying: “The one who dies with the most friends wins.�

Soni

[Sonea]

.. and another thing...

It must have been a dragon who said, "Dragons are superior in every way to bipeds, which is what qualifies them to lead and teach bipeds in the first place."

Well in reply to that I say..

"OH YEH!?! Well, my dad's smarter than your dad!"
My mom's prettier than yours!"
"I can hit harder than you do!"
"I can gift you with speed, health, armor..."
"I can walk down the road with out gaining the attention of every Foe within 100 paces!"

I'm just being sarcastic . I love my dragon friends.. even the crabby ones. I do, however, find it fascinating that some people think that just because they say something is so, everyone else should believe it.

Soni

[LaughingOtter]

Honored and most wise Sephiranoth,

Truth it is that the Gifted stand together against a common foe, lest all should fall alone; but such is the way of the current age, and ages and ages past the way was not as it is now.

Your words speak of the choices and acts of one alone out of many, for as there are many Gifted, each alone is one, and the choosing and acting of one may often not be that of the many.

My speaking was not of the choices of one, or of the current age. I spoke of the many, and of the long ago ages which my avatar names Lore. I spoke only of what was, and of that which a people, as a people, have done and said.

That which a people do as a people does not chain the one to do likewise; One may stand alone against all other of that one's people and cry "No!", and be none the lesser of that people.

A question was asked: "Why?" A portion and part of an answer lies in that thing called Lore, and in the accounts of the thoughts and acts of the many. Thus did my avatar craft an answer.

Are there deeds and words of damnable blackness marked in the records of Lore? Aye, and blacker still may be marked yet. Let no eye flinch to look thereon and read and Know, for that which was is that which was. A wise one of my avatar's realm spoke once of such dark days, saying, "To the living one owes duty; to the dead one owes only truth". It is the sad truth of the dead my avatar spoke, not chains that would bind the living or the one among many.

Honored and wise drake, your words are True Flame, for you speak of this age and the choices of the one, and I would swear agreement with those word to the fullest measure of my heart. Even so, the darkness of the day and the kinship of a shared foe changes the past not one measure, not the dropping of a single grain of sand. To hide from the past, to deny it, to speak falsely of it, even seeking to forget that which we wish was not so, is to live in falsehood.

[Pharcellus]

"OH YEH!?! Well, my dad's smarter than your dad!"

Not possible, unless your "dad" was a Dragon, and probably not even then.

My mom's prettier than yours!"

Only if you consider Umgruk the epitome of beauty.

"I can hit harder than you do!"

Any time you wish to test that hypothesis, I am available for empirical evidence distribution.

"I can gift you with speed, health, armor..."

My pet furball can do that, too!

"I can walk down the road with out gaining the attention of every Foe within 100 paces!"

..and I can fly over that road (and pretty much everything else) without a care in the world.

I'm just being sarcastic . I love my dragon friends.. even the crabby ones. I do, however, find it fascinating that some people think that just because they say something is so, everyone else should believe it.

If it is a Dragon saying it, then you should believe it... ..and then spread the truth of the matter to all, unless the Dragon specifies otherwise. Disputes arising between what two or more Dragons say will be handled between said Dragons in the traditional way. Peak of Storms. High noon. Bring the hatchies.

(brought to you by Roleplayers Anonymous, where our slogan is "Let's keep it in character!")

[CallakDW]

I personally don't think slavery is a good thing, ever. However, I might mention that the dragons ideas regarding slavery mirror our own sad past. In roleplay this is not really a bad thing, it adds flavor to the world but look at it this way:

Helians are the Yanks. Lunus are the southerners. Lunus don't see the naka as much more than animals to be used or eaten, similar to the way white southerners in America saw the black man as not much more than an animal to be enslaved. Helians scoff at this, they see more than an animal in the naka, but a personality, one that can be helped and perhaps?- even learned from, much like the Yanks recognised the black man for a human being and helped them fight for their freedom. (though my history is rusty, I'm sure there was more behind it)

This said, I do believe that during this time, if it was discovered that there was a place that the black man was making slaves of the white man, I think that both Yanks and Southerners would be apalled beyond belief. Dragons similarly on both sides would be absolutely enraged to find one of their kind chained up and enslaved to naka.

[peladon]

Dragons similarly on both sides would be absolutely enraged to find one of their kind chained up and enslaved to naka.

Seek the tower. List to the the one that guards.

To be Summoned is to be called without will to resist. To be called is to have will to resist.

Wherefore then thy rage?


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[peladon]

None of wise I walk. And honour is a thing each offers in their heart and none may speak against, but mayhap best not spoken. for each holds it in different colour and gift than any other.

But I am not skilled in the Common tongue, and thus I must take words as they are spoken. Those of more wit indeed would glean more of understanding. But thy words I heard, and thy words were thus:

Helians may regard bipeds as acceptable company, but they are never, ever seen as anything but lesser creatures.

Never, ye speak? Aye, and ever to mark its sister? Then there we stand apart. For I am part of never, and as the land allows, part of ever also. AND LET NONE STAND BEFORE ME AND HOLD THE LIGHTNING LESS, AND LET NONE AND ANY LEGION STAND SO AND SAY I SEE IT SO. And there are other of two legs I might speak of, but of the Lightning I speak first and last and each breath that is needed. Not for any ownership, nor any demand of hers, but for mine own choosing, and aye that heart's honour I spoke of first.

So set never and ever and fact by word apart, and speak that a thing be opinion and judgement, and then I will set me to silence.

but speak never and ever and set it in this and any other place, and... and I find it other than mine eye and heart and will mark. But no other do I speak for, not thee, not Lightning, not dead nor living. For my voice is mine alone where Law allows... Though were the Five... but none of matter.

Elder and wise, ye be more of wise and less of decrepitude than this poor draku. But that which I am, I am, and that is no greater and aye, mayhap less by more than Law’s judging than any other.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[LaughingOtter]

Seek the tower. List to the the one that guards.

Those wiser may correct me, but I can think of nothing writ in the volumes of Lore which speaks of Breath-of-Fire, nor that reason which binds him to service. It may be that he was bound by force, and rage is well justified if it be so. It may be that his service came in the loss of a wager, or in fulfillment of a debt, or out of duty laid on him by one he is sworn to obey.

All that is sure is that he dislikes this service and wishes to be free, and such thoughts are weal for any that live and know their own will.

All else of his service is shadow.

[LaughingOtter]

So set never and ever and fact by word apart, and speak that a thing be opinion and judgement, and then I will set me to silence.

As I said also, most wise and noble drake:

That which a people do as a people does not chain the one to do likewise; One may stand alone against all other of that one's people and cry "No!", and be none the lesser of that people.

When I spoke of the followers of the Scholar Helian, I spoke of them as one people, and of that which is Writ of Helian herself:

Helian believed that the rise of the naka-duskael represented a challenge to which Dragon society should rise up to meet. She believed that Dragons were the most enlightened and advanced race in Istaria and that they should seize the reigns of leadership and lead all races into the future.

I have said this again that it may be marked well, that the doings of a people are not chains to bind the doings of one. So I defend my words. Even so, I see that my words strike and wound, when I seek to do no harm to any, two-leg or Draku. I spoke poorly, and offer to amend my words, thus:

Helians may regard bipeds as acceptable company, but only a handful ever regard bipeds as equals. Helian herself believed that Dragons are superior in every way to bipeds, which is what qualifies them to lead and teach bipeds in the first place.

[Peaches]

In reply to Heather's thought: "I don't quite get it, its ok for dragons to enslave bipeds and not ok for bipeds to enslave dragons?"

The answer to this is simple:

Slavery is not ok.

Those who believe otherwise should heed the words of Theodore Weld:

".. slavery is a curse. Whoever denies this, his lips libel his heart. Try him: clank the chains in his ears, and tell him they are for him. Give him an hour to prepare his wife and children for a life of slavery. Bid him make haste and get ready their necks for the yoke, and their wrists for the coffle chains, then look at his pale lips and trembling knees, and you have nature's testimony against slavery."

Being stronger than another does not make you better.
Being smarter does not make you superior.
Having more coin in your pouch than another does not give you the right to take advantage of the one who has less.

One who sees him/her/itself as better than others and yields to the temptation of taking advantage of them, is actually the loser. That one is truly the weaker, has the personal deficiency, and demonstrates moral turpitude.

There is a saying: “The one who dies with the most friends wins.�

Soni

Oh my, I am only jesting about Oasis, but, I couldn't understand why dragons say its ok to enslave bipeds and not the other way around. I am truly sorry for even bringing this up. I will not use my *teasing* in such a manner again. Please accept my apologies.

[peladon]

When I spoke of the followers of the Scholar Helian, I spoke of them as one people, and of that which is Writ of Helian herself:

Helian believed that the rise of the naka-duskael represented a challenge to which Dragon society should rise up to meet. She believed that Dragons were the most enlightened and advanced race in Istaria and that they should seize the reigns of leadership and lead all races into the future.



Helians may regard bipeds as acceptable company, but only a handful ever regard bipeds as equals. Helian herself believed that Dragons are superior in every way to bipeds, which is what qualifies them to lead and teach bipeds in the first place.

Ah, elder and wise. I am, as oft has been spoken, but I have little of skill. But I see thy words, and I find I hold them... thy words.

Ye speak of Helian's belief. Such great ones are not of my knowing. And thus my point... I know not Helian's belief. nor if I would care did I know such of her own voice. And drakonel Helian is not here to speak of those beliefs. And ye see this thine own self, for ye speak of ' that which is writ of Helian'. And aye, there is writing, and word passed down. But is it Helian's? Mayhap. Or mayhap not. When ye are passed and safe gone, I may write, were I inclined, and I may say that this one or that said thus and so, why even thy very own self. And ye will not be there to gainsay my speaking, for draku live long... .

And if Helian did say thus or so, and did not, or did and said some thing another held else... why, I am not Helian. Not that drakonel, nor yet some rock that bears that name. To gain wings it was needed to take stance twixt one rock and another. In wakings past... no matter. That which was, was. That which is, is. And Helian, wise or Wise, was Helian. And I... am that which I am . and I have never spoken with a one called dragon-kind or dwarf-kind or... of any nature. Only those dancing fragments of the Dream we call... We call each one. A Bori, a Sssilmath, aye, and of a time I even spoke unto an otter.... .

But for thy final, words, why in part these I mark as words I hold well spoken. Though I know not how many rocks called Helian may be held in any hand... surely it depends on the nature of that hand. But what another believed, or does not.. this is not mine to mark, save where it crosses the path I walk. and then it is mine only to mark as wind-guide. For we are each and all that which we are... and the rocks we choose to bear are but rocks. for as draku know, to ride w wind is to ride no thing fixed, but one that may change in each wing-beat. And to ride a wind that is changed as though it is was it was is not to ride but to make one's mark upon the land. Oh, indeed so... .


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[peladon]

Oh my, I am only jesting about Oasis, but, I couldn't understand why dragons say its ok to enslave bipeds and not the other way around. I am truly sorry for even bringing this up. I will not use my *teasing* in such a manner again. Please accept my apologies.

Dancer, I ye be dear to me, and this ye know. But ye speak of slave and slave is Binding and Bound... and I find little and less of jest in such matters.

I have known in... in tides lost and gone... those made slave so. I do not recall their smiles at their estate. And I know ye spoke but in passing jest.... but whan such things come jest, then they come less of account. And I am but a Fool and least of account.. and I would have no thing join my state that is not worthy of it. And that another be enslaved... ah, me. I blether. But such is my nature, to be sure .


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise
Bound by those that found Binding fit fate

[Peaches]

Dancer, I ye be dear to me, and this ye know. But ye speak of slave and slave is Binding and Bound... and I find little and less of jest in such matters.

I have known in... in tides lost and gone... those made slave so. I do not recall their smiles at their estate. And I know ye spoke but in passing jest.... but whan such things come jest, then they come less of account. And I am but a Fool and least of account.. and I would have no thing join my state that is not worthy of it. And that another be enslaved... ah, me. I blether. But such is my nature, to be sure .


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save the Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise
Bound by those that found Binding fit fate

And as such, it won't happen again.

[Pharcellus]

(this is not a post by Roleplayers Anonymous, so you know what that means )

Dragons see two-legs as most humans in RL see animals: as pets, test subjects, and food. Thus, when one thinks of the "slavery of two-legs unto Dragons", one should see it from the same perspective of "slavery of animals unto humans". Dragons thus react with repugnance to the notion that they are a slave to a two-leg as humans would react with repugnance to the notion that they are a slave to an animal.

There is also the sophistry that owning pets in a way makes one a slave to the pet, since you now provide to the pet the means for its continued existence that it would otherwise get for itself (food, shelter, etc). However, never forget, humans still are the master; they can even decide if the pet lives or dies and, in few circumstances, will that action ever be called into question by anyone of consequence.

So, when considering how Dragons regard two-legs in-game, think about your relationship with Fido, Spot, or that slab of cow on your dinner plate because, as much as you take those relationships for granted, so would Dragons.