developpement on stand-by ?

[Zexoin]

It's been more than a month since the last live patch. I was wondering why there's no new content yet. I hope the reason is the devs are working on the Unity chars tranfer. Please, let us know what's going on. I've noticed that the number of players has already decreased a few...

[Aucus]

I want gifts! Lots of gifts ! hehe and I hope the gifts will contain some shoulder pet this year has well... Maybe I will get lucky this year.

[Shian]

Well we do know at least that there will be a winter festival this year

[Zexoin]

But I was wondering why there hasn't been any minor fix either...

[CallakDW]

I'm just speculating, but there is two major issues right now that I bet they are spending their time on that I think take presidence over the working game's fixes: getting Unity in place, and the windows Vista problem. This would be a good thing, but unfortunately it's not somthing we are going to see anything visible on untill they finish with a solution. I understand its still hard to continue to pay for a game that it seems like any obvious developement has stalled on.

[Goriax]

Since I doubt they all went home they're working on something. I'd rather they be working on something which needs doing then on telling us about what they'd be working on if they weren't holding our hands.

Yea, I agree that the Unity transfer and Vista compatability both look critically important. I'm planning the purchase of a Vista 64bit machine soon. It's going to be Vista whether HZ runs on it or not, but I'd sure like to be able to play HZ on it. Unfortunately, my comps are used for far more important things then just playing HZ and that means I have to move forward whether HZ does or not even if it kills my HZ playing.

[LaughingOtter]

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...d.php?p=167942

See above. The gnomes are plotting something, from the looks of things....

[Deth]

Also it is my understanding that about 90% of the people working on the game are working part time. So it is going to be slow going.

[CallakDW]

Also it is my understanding that about 90% of the people working on the game are working part time. So it is going to be slow going.

And why? Why don't they have full timers on this thing?

[Shian]

And why? Why don't they have full timers on this thing?

Everyone can feel the need to work part time for the extra cash for this kind of job.

[Spirit]

Everyone can feel the need to work part time for the extra cash for this kind of job.

I think it's rather safe to say that the dev's are probably doing other work for making money... I can't see Horizons supporting any number of staff working on a full-time basis, with the costs of hosting etc. I'd wager Horizons is something they're doing in their free time for now, as it's their dream project they cannot leave alone.

It would be nice to get between the dev's ears though to see what's happening.

Rakku

[Deth]

And why? Why don't they have full timers on this thing?

Because the new owner is the only investor, that I know of at least. Based off that and the fact that I hear most people are working only part time that he does not have the full amount of cash to hire to many people full time. I think most of his money is going towards server fees. I also assume that they are waiting to see how much cash flow coming in they have.

As you have pointed out in the other thread they need to fix things to get more people. But to fix those things they need cash, which they can not get with out more people. That catch 22 everyone hates.

[Solitaire]

And why? Why don't they have full timers on this thing?

Well let's just see...

1. The EI Disaster alienated a LOT of players and the player base is a lot smaller than what it was before EI thus a lot less revenue.
2. Acquisition costs, how much we shall never know.
3. Operational costs, again something we shall not know.
4. Basically a "startup" company that is taking a huge risk, probably without loads of capital to spend.

Those among other things amount to one thing, taking baby steps. I'm sure that Vi has a business model in place that means not sticking their neck out too far until Horizons begins to prove that it IS sustainable in the long term. I sure as heck would. It's past is "colorful" to say the very least. And most businesses would probably have let it die by now. But you have a handful of nuts who are as dedicated to breathing life back into the game as us nuts who play it want it to survive. But they seem to be sensible about what they are doing. As HZ improves, and hopefully the player base grows with more revenue earned, more employees will be hired on a full term basis. It would be stupid to hire on even one or two people full time before the cost of having them on the payroll is sustainable. Yeah, you could argue that hiring people and getting more content out there would bring in more players. But would it? With Horizons's past? Enough to offset the costs?

As for how often we get updates, I'd rather have bigger and better updates less often than a steady dribble of very minor tidbits in comparison. And I think that may be what they are doing.

[CallakDW]

As for how often we get updates, I'd rather have bigger and better updates less often than a steady dribble of very minor tidbits in comparison. And I think that may be what they are doing.

I can agree with this, but are they really doing it? Only time will tell aparently because they have allready made it known that they are being very careful of what the disclose, this I too understand, but it's still frusterating.

Still I can only see Ishtaria undergoing a slow death under this kind of methodology. I wish there was someone who was willing to dump the money needed to revamp it.

[Shian]

You're being a bit unfair Callak don't you think? Do you think everyone is sitting on thier hands?

[CallakDW]

You're being a bit unfair Callak don't you think? Do you think everyone is sitting on thier hands?

No, I think the devs are doing what they can for what they are being payed, but there isn't anyone willing to pay for full time employees for one thing, and proper hardware for another, that's a problem. I've been around here long enough to be tired of this milking busness, and want to see somthing astonishing.

[velveeta]

sorry to say, call, you may have to wait a long time for something 'astonishing', at least more astonishing than the fact that horizons is still here and playable. that's pretty astonishing to me, considering how things were just a year ago - heck, 6 months ago.

i love you like a sib, call, but i have read your thoughts over several threads now, along with the others who seem to be unsatisfied with the speed of events in horizons, and now i have to be blunt again.
i am sorry things are not moving fast enough for you, but child, that's life. the horizons team is constrained by many many factors, some we know and some we don't. i, for one, am convinced they are doing everything the best they can at the fastest pace they feel comfortable with. i see signs everyday that work is progressing - unfortunately for you and the others, you apparently do not.
call, please try to understand this - HORIZONS WILL NEVER BE WOW, OR EVERQUEST, OR SWG. ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. small games take small steps, because they have to. big games can AFFORD to take big risks and make big changes. horizons can't.
pissing, moaning, and bitching about how its all moving too slow for you will not change things, nor will weekly/daily demands for communication. everything you need to see is there, you just ain't looking right.

the fall fest, the upcoming winterfest, the conf fixes, the billing fixes - you do understand this has all happened in the last 3 months, yes? that is 100x more than ei even thought of doing. the only reason you have something to complain about is because vi is giving you those things.

sorry, call, but i don't think horizons will ever be able to 'astonish' you.

[LaughingOtter]

there isn't anyone willing to pay for full time employees for one thing, and proper hardware for another, that's a problem.

Callak, willing and able are very different things. I'm not any more privvy to Virtrium's financials than anyone else, but it should be obvious to anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense that overspending and running out of operating money would be fatal to the game.

By the way, milking means taking without giving back. The Virtrium team is mostly composed of volunteers who are giving without expectation of compensation. As for Rick, if you read the interviews he's given you'll see that he is using his own money, not venture capital from someone else, with Horizons. I think it's safe to say he's sunk a lot more into Horizons than you and I put together.

Patience, Grasshopper...

[Vahrokh]

I've been around here long enough to be tired of this milking busness, and want to see somthing astonishing.

Horizons is managed by a very, very small company.
We are now so accustomed at the likes of WoW and competitors, with endless pouring of content every other frequent patch that "old style" MMOs look much more static and stale.

But it's our perception that changed, the newer products constantly raise the bar. Constant patches, mega-sound, mods, in game tickets, in game shopping, content and events and "fun items" (a la shoulder cow) poured in to appease the more and more capricious and demanding players.

Horizons cannot compete, it's just "smaller" and older.

WoW currently employs 1 to 2 teams (a third team is on new upcoming products, so a Blizzard responsible said on a recent interview), and afaik they are 50 dedicated, full time "programmers" (artists etc) each.

WoW is a totally static product and very easy to extend and maintain, no player made structures or anything to create huge issues with an engine able to manage persistent worlds. No "two games in one" as all the races are the same thing. Embrional craft system.

They probably got regression testing, corporate quality documentation and at least two levels of beta testing (again, reading what they say).

Horizons is again (and this is no difference with the past) the "enligthed passionate enterpreneur that risks his own money" that gathers a small team of daring people to inflate life in something they really believed in.

The difference is absurdly insane.

Exactly like huge is the difference between what you can demand off a mainstream MMO company and Vi.

From the former you demand uninterrupted excellence, from the latter you thank the fate / gods / whatever that even today you log in and you still find a server online.
It's less granted than you believe, just look at us.

I'm not any more privvy to Virtrium's financials than anyone else, but it should be obvious to anyone with a reasonable amount of common sense that overspending and running out of operating money would be fatal to the game.

This too. A nice difference than today and the past is that the new team prefers running on small steps but not on fumes, like in the past.

I am yet not convinced if they'll manage to keep a player base (costs are here for them, and thus they make players pay like a big MMO) because the big names really provide for huge content for little subscriptions, but they don't have a lot of choices.

Even in the impossible case they find an investor with 6 digit budget and started refactoring the game today, they'd take months before you see any deep change.
For now, imagine Horizons as a Sourceforge "freeware" project, your Paypal being "donations".

A small nucleus of volounteers trying to make a nice software for who can appreciate the niche of it.

[Shian]

For now, imagine Horizons as a Sourceforge "freeware" project, your Paypal being "donations".

A small nucleus of volounteers trying to make a nice software for who can appreciate the niche of it.

Ayup. and I am very glad they are here and trying to improve the game in whatever way they can, especially on such meager resources.