Discussion for Delta 126

[tramsan]

The biote removal "debuff" has to go. The intention is good, but the result will be *a lot* of grumpy players. There are oodles of valid reasons why an L100 would be passing through or going to the Parsinia cedar spawn, and all of a sudden *poof* he finds himself by Last Stand. This would get *extremely* annoying for *a lot* of people.

If possible, instead create a passive ability for the treants that makes all incoming damage 0 if the attacker is over X level. This way players over the desired level won't be able to hurt the mobs, but will still be able to root/mez them to keep them away, if they get aggroed. If this is not possible, the current solution still has to go.

[Steelclaw]

Ah. A day 'off'. Guess I can fire up HZ on the laptop and cook some meat.

Anyway, from what I've seen so far:

- The "Ssaris" head scale should be "Saris" (it really doesn't look like a Saris/Sslik cross).

- Quest: Hermey the misfit gnome: "Travel to Feladan and talk to Quinitin" - The NPC's name is Quintin.

- Quintin's text contains a link: "... and returns to us the life _giving light_" - What is this link supposed to do? I get the normal greet text when I click it.

Questions/Comments:
- Are 'frost' mobs supposed to drop peppermints? (those are kind of wintery')
- Anyone else notice a lack of casting sounds for prime bolt?
- The links in the quest dialog seem to be shifted left a fixed number of characters. See what happens if you shift the link tags in the opposite direction.
(yeah, that's a nasty workaround, but if it's not going to get fixed in the client anytime soon, might as well make it /look/ fixed.)
- I agree with Trams re: the surprise teleportation. If you don't want higher level players standing around whacking the lower level blighted treants, try something else. (like proc the biote removal upon the attacking player when the mob takes damage)
- What's up with the redwalls around the Satyr islands?

[Deth]

Verdean-Tipped Technique can not be apllied to a Malcite claw. Have not been able to try other claws yet.

[Kala]

Comments on Gnomekindle/Gnomekindle mobs:

1. Dolly Day only accepts Istarian Express. This was one of the first mobs I spoke with and my first thought was "WTH is Istarian Express?" I realize it's explained by another NPC, but it's a bit irritating having yet another currency type added and not having it explained by the person who takes that currency.

2. Gnomes are in ugly greyish outfits.

3. Dolly Day said she had treats. I only saw scales and outfits.

4. Is it intentional for the ornaments to be worth twice as much?

5. Is it intentional for the red presents to cost more (old values vs the T1-4 new values)?

6. Spammity spam on the quest dialogue. The default quest chat window only holds about a paragraph or so of text. Maybe two smallish paragraphs. It's a nitpicky thing, but I hate having to scroll back up repeatedly to read quest dialogue. I enjoy reading lore, but I'm more likely to just skim it (if I bother reading it at all) if I have to scroll up.

7. ...Istarian Express and Istarian Express Checks? Seriously?? Ok, I may be a grouch about this, but that's a wee bit on the cheesy side. If it must be included, can we do without the rest of the credit card references?

8. I agree with tramsan re: the teleporting. (As a side note to this, there are some places in game with enforced recalling. Dragons in flight won't recall, but instead get constant "You can not use this ability while flying.")


Comments on the berries, etc.: (Very nitpicky stuff)

1. Juniper berries have the same icon as rye. Or was it barley? Whichever is the greenish version of the wheat icon. Berries are not grains.

2. Why is the sage inventory icon red? The icon looks like leaves. I'm reasonably certain sage leaves aren't red. I've seen pictures of pink-reddish sage flowers though if that's what you meant to use. I'm not an expert on sage, so if it really is supposed to be red...sorry for being aggravating.

[velveeta]

7. ...Istarian Express and Istarian Express Checks? Seriously?? Ok, I may be a grouch about this, but that's a wee bit on the cheesy side. If it must be included, can we do without the rest of the credit card references?

hey, what's wrong with cheese?????

[Kala]

hey, what's wrong with cheese?????

Nothing. I find cheese to be quite delicious...on just about anything! If it can't be made better with cheese, then add chocolate. Mmm...chocolate mousies...

[Velea]

1. You're supposed to talk to the lore mobs first, not Dolly first. But I can add something to what Dolly says asking if you spoke to them.

2. Read above. It's been said before, and I said it in my very first post, that we know this and are working on the fix. It's a bug that didn't appear in internal testing.

3. Those ARE the treats.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by "worth twice as much", etc, but I did check and things are working as intended, yes. The number of ornaments required to buy presents at each level shouldn't have changed much from the event two years ago, but might have slightly. Gnomekindle is NOT "Unexpected Lunacy revisited", it is a new event where we've tried to include those things from the previous winter festival that we know the players enjoyed.

5. See #4

6. Easy answer is "make your window bigger". It's just as annoying to others to have to keep clicking links for dialog to continue as it is for you to scroll. I tried to strike a balance between both in with the more "long winded" NPC's.

7. Sorry you don't like this, but it's staying. And no, not taking out the credit card references. You find it cheesy, others have said it's humorous. *shrugs*

8. This is fixed, I think, but won't know until testing is done on Blight after the next delta.

[MarshDog]

I also agree the fest mobs are way to strong , these things ( the yew's) are on PCP, or being its close to Christmas maby its Angle Dust or something, a quest of this nature is sposta be fun ,not mean dp's also I found on the free teleporting I was able to fly into the cedar are and rez someone, I could walk around abit with out ending up at my plot in last stand , only when i PB'd a mob did I get ported,
I'm not sure if these new mobs sucked all the old mobs out of the server Db or its just that there was/is so many people on Blight it makes BAU business as usual (sp) really hard to do, I spent close to 4 hours on draak waiting for 15-20 dragons to spawn so I could loot their souls for Bounders arop, on Blight when we get 8-10 players on Blight the server slows down big time, once the testing is over I would hope Blights hamsters get a break or Ill have to wait on AROP till these things are gone.

[LaughingOtter]

It's a nitpicky thing, but I hate having to scroll back up repeatedly to read quest dialogue. I enjoy reading lore, but I'm more likely to just skim it (if I bother reading it at all) if I have to scroll up.

In order to have quests that are more than "Go kill X of Y", you have to have exposition through dialog and backstory. All that text has to be displayed somehow and it's never going to fit in the default window. Resizing the window, scrolling, clicking on links - those are just part of the package. If you choose not to read it, thast's fine; it demonstrates that your free will is functioning as intended.

[tramsan]

Clicking links is probably preferable to too long paragraphs. In most cases you can just use the greet button to advance the dialogue.

[Velea]

That is your opinion, tramsan. Personally I hate all the clicking and would rather just resize the window and sit back and read. And I know others that agree with me just as I know there are many who agree with you.

[Steelclaw]

Regarding paging: How about something like this?

--> Greeting <--
This is a dialog block with link1. There are some more links here
and finally, another one here!


--> Greeting: link1 <--
Here is the dialog (monolog?) for link1. It goes on for a bit and eventually comes to an end.

--> Greeting: links here <--
This is more text to read, but notice how it is clearly tagged to correspond with the link that was clicked!

--> Greeting: link1 : end <--
That way, when someone clicks links, they can keep track of what each bit of text goes with the link that was clicked, thus removing one of the major readability problems.

[Kala]

While my screen real estate space is not limited, I can't speak for everyone. If I were playing on the laptop, I'd be extraordinarily frustrated because my screen space IS limited.

And Klaus, I'm well aware that we need more exposition and dialogue. I'm not complaining about the length of text. I'm complaining about the fact that it isn't broken up into smaller chunks. And before now, I hadn't had a problem dealing with the lengthier quest dialogues and the standard sized windows.

And frankly, if you don't like the fact that I find the Istarian Express cheesy...well, this is a feedback thread, I'm giving you feedback. I realize not everyone is going to agree with me. I realize you did a lot of the quest writing for Gnomekindle, but there's no need to be so defensive about it. The rest of the stuff is fine; it's just the spammy dialogue and the cheese I have issues with. My intention wasn't to make you feel bad about your work. It was meant to be constructive criticism.

1. You're supposed to talk to the lore mobs first, not Dolly first. But I can add something to what Dolly says asking if you spoke to them.

If I should speak with the lore mobs first, then they should be the first people you see as you come down the hill, instead of Dolly and the present people. Thank you for adding something to Dolly though.

2. Read above. It's been said before, and I said it in my very first post, that we know this and are working on the fix. It's a bug that didn't appear in internal testing.

My apologies. I must have misread and thought you said the fix HAD gone in.

3. Those ARE the treats.

Hmm. Ok. Mind must still be on the Fall Festival where treats = food. I have a very hungry dragon to feed.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by "worth twice as much", etc, but I did check and things are working as intended, yes. The number of ornaments required to buy presents at each level shouldn't have changed much from the event two years ago, but might have slightly. Gnomekindle is NOT "Unexpected Lunacy revisited", it is a new event where we've tried to include those things from the previous winter festival that we know the players enjoyed.

5. See #4

Yes, I realize Gnomekindle is not the old treant event. I'm merely pointing out things that could have been overlooked. Because, you know, it's not like it's never happened before. (Before someone starts complaining that I don't understand the process and that it's normal for things to get missed. Yes, I know. I'm trying to keep things from getting missed.)

If I recall correctly, two years ago all the present vendors had the same prices as the T5 vendor has now. The T1-4 vendors are now about half as much, which I thought was a little odd. All I asked was if this was intentional. Also, two years ago, ornaments were only worth 1c. This year, they're worth 2c.

6. Easy answer is "make your window bigger". It's just as annoying to others to have to keep clicking links for dialog to continue as it is for you to scroll. I tried to strike a balance between both in with the more "long winded" NPC's.

That's not an easy answer, it's an easy excuse. That's simply telling me my way is wrong. I could have just said the easy answer is to "delete all your dialogue." Works both ways.

I find it the scrolling unnecessary and irritating. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And, as you pointed out, others find the constant clicking to be irritating. I feel a happy medium between the two wouldn't have left me feeling quite as irritated, but again, that's my opinion.

I'm not asking for links to be put into every sentence. I'm not asking for quest dialogue to fit perfectly into the window each and every time. I'm asking to not have three windows (estimated, not on Blight right now) of text to scroll through. One and a quarter to one and a half is fine. I don't mind doing the occasional scroll, but I felt this was too much.

I'll be more than happy to log into Blight to give specific NPC names tomorrow if you so desire.

7. Sorry you don't like this, but it's staying. And no, not taking out the credit card references. You find it cheesy, others have said it's humorous. *shrugs*

There are three reasons why I don't like it.

A. It's cheesy. I don't mind a little cheese, but we keep having RL references put into the game. They're great as easter egg type things and side quests, but not as events.

B. It's not very original. I like Iron Chef as much as the next person, but with the Iron Chef quests added recently and then blatant use of credit card slogans... Well, it has me slightly worried that every time we get new quests and events, there's going to continue to be some RL aspect to them. I play to get away from RL, not be more immersed in it. I'm not saying the quests or ideas are bad, just unoriginal.

C. To me, it adds to the commercialization of the holidays. I'm not religious. I don't care what people call the holidays. I'd just like them to not be so "gimme, gimme!" and "I want!"


And I do believe that's the last I have to say for this thread unless I find something else I feel needs feedback on or if someone wants me to clarify the sage and juniper comments.

[Silverblaze]

Let me say that I personally dont care of its links or long dialogue explainging things if I wanna read it I will, if I dont i wont its that simple.

Credit card stuff. Poor idea. Parodies in games...often a poor idea. Now before I sound like I'm bashing people or ideas...allow me to say this is my opinion. Not fact, universal truth or propaganda.

I love humor. I can appreciate most humor. Humor usually = fun. Lets not force it though. That is to say, dont go overboard on humor in a fantasy setting much like dungeons & dragons/tolkien/etc. The events are often done to keep us in the holiday spirit yet tied into the game plot. Not yielding to the withered aegis. Overflow with humor subtracts from that.

Were I an order player I think it would bother me more. Har to role play a fantasy setting with Rl thown at you a lot.

I play the game for the swod and sorcery, the socializing, and the dragons. I can get humor anywhere. dont get me wrong everything needs humor, or such is my belief, but temper it some for those of us who like immersion please.

Truth be told. In the long run it will detract from the enjoyment of the game for many...too general and everyday life for my tastes...and I doubt just me.

--- treants... these are the only thing that drop ornaments? these are the only things that drop shoulder buddy chunk? Hope they respawn fast and are prolific.

Teleporting high lvls away also means we cant help lowbies...how does that promote community? I mean yeah it stops uberpeds from farming cedars...but...why do I want a cedar buddy if I kill t6 stuff? the stat bonus will be negligible in comparison. Also if only hte treants drop ornaments, how is a lvl 80 to get lower lvl ornaments and presents? Last festival... ( keep in mind thats all I have to base this off of, not assuming it will be anything like the old one) low tier presents had stuff higher tiers didnt have and vice versa. Speed enhancing crystals and weapon dye techs. how will this work? Also... is it just cedars that auto port people or any treant below your lvl ( rating?) I dont play on blight but if I want it fixed by patch I need to know these things.

Are there t6 treants?

That covers my post. Hope it all makes sense, I'm tired.

[Corulainen]

wow, i'm pretty surprised by the attitude of some people...

I came to this game cause a friend said i'd like it and since he plays on test server, i started there. And he said i should come here and say something cause i like this gmae and it was fun doing the gnome stuff with him. But he said that the people who post on the forums aren't nice sometimes, but i still am surprised at the attitude of people like Kala and Silverblaze. You people are acting like couple of jerks. No wonder your devs always quit if this is how you treat them. These people work hard to make something fun for you all and you like trash it.

I played other games before this one, and they all have fun stuff that pokes fun at real life stuff. I do renn faires with my friend too and they poke fun at real life stuff. Its fun and lets you laugh at yourself a bit. And no body is making you do this, are they? Or did the devs come to your house and make you read all that long text and put those istaria checks in your inventory so you have to see them? If not, how about you stop being jerks and go do something else, leave the fun to us.

The forum mods are probably going to eddit me for calling you jerks, but I hope you read it first, cause you are. Just cuase you dont like something doesnt mean everyone isn't gonna, ya know?

Edit: Oh and did you read the lore stuff? Cause gnomekindle is part of the game storyline. The one guy says it is cause the gnomes wanted a festival like the dwarves just had, and now all races can have their own festival.

[tramsan]

That is your opinion, tramsan. Personally I hate all the clicking and would rather just resize the window and sit back and read. And I know others that agree with me just as I know there are many who agree with you.

Bind a key to the Greet function, then you can just sit back and press a single key when you wish to read the next paragraph. You should try it sometime.

[Creme]

This is supposed to be a feedback thread, and last interview I read, I believe Rick Simmons said that they intended to listen to player feedback.

Knocking said feedback is in poor form, moreso, it makes players disinclined to provide feedback, especially if they're concerned that a player/developer/moderator will now mod them more strictly because of slighted feelings due to feedback over some quest/event.

Now, my 2 cents.

I don't like long dialogue, but that's just me, I realize fully that others revel in the reading of so many words. If I want to read a book, I'll go buy one, I don't play to substitute content for a good book.

A thing for consideration:

ERGONOMICS.

I suffer from "borderline" repetetive stress syndrome/carpal tunnel due to mouse movements. (waaah) I have been treated for it, and am fully aware that my post work gaming activities do contribute to the occasional flareup.

It would be novel for a gaming company to consider ergonomics and economy of motion as I'm sure, in a few more years, a good portion of the gaming population will also suffer from some form of repetitive stress injury, unless their setup is very ergonomic.

In that light, text box scrolling/resizing....

TOO MANY MOUSE MOVEMENTS.

Whereas, allowing links to be triggered by merely clicking the mouse which is already poised over the greet button, is no additional mouse movements. That is a WIN-WIN situation.

Tramsan's suggestion also performs the exact same action and is a carpal tunnel/repetitive stress savior!

Please do consider, if not for this event, but for future quests, to design mouse-minimizing activities dealing with chat.

I realize this would be a first in the gaming world, but you can set the stage and come up with all sorts of ergonomic enhancing interface-type things. Quest chat dialog could be your first step

Thank you, and my carpal tunnel/repetitive stress is under control as I've had extensive therapy for months, but truly, every little bit of extra motion saved helps prevent future flareups.

On that note, the festival looks like it would be fun and I do thank Kala for it appears that she has put a LOT of time into looking at the festival, it's mechanics and even the prices/value of the items.

Let's please not do things to inhibit live shard players from taking the time to test the game to the extent that some have.

[LaughingOtter]

I'm not complaining about the length of text. I'm complaining about the fact that it isn't broken up into smaller chunks.

Ah, I see, thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood your comment. I don't disagree with you about keeping the text broken down into managable chunks, but it sounded like you were referring to lore in general. Obviously, we could have a great many more quests in the game if we followed the minimal-text, one-step quest model used in WoW & Vanguard. They just wouldn't be very good.

Easter Eggs are a tradition in gaming and I doubt they'll ever go away. While this event is a little heavy on the pop-culture references, I think the players will find that Velea did a great job of making it an Istarian event first & foremost. It's not nearly as bad as some other events the gaming industry has come up with.

[tramsan]

It's not nearly as bad as some other events the gaming industry has come up with.

Rip-offs...

[Creme]

C. To me, it adds to the commercialization of the holidays.

All too true, last thing I want to think about now is the accumulation of charges on cards, and the post-holiday paying off of said cards and get reminders of same in-game.

I would like this festival to start as soon as possible, so it's late in the day to make changes; however I think this is all very good feedback and hopefully can go on a checklist somewhere of things people don't like to think about during the holidays for future-type events, may there be many more.